Even Muslim countries ban the NIqab - so why not Canada?

[dialamah]

26 minutes ago, Goddess said:

 

It is exactly False Dilemma.  You present it as: We EITHER allow everyone to cover their faces OR no one is allowed to under any circumstances.

Ok. I will answer what I think you would, if you would.

 You are of the opinion that Muslim women should not cover their face, but others can. This does not mean carte blanche to face coverings in all circumstances, but that someone wearing a balaclava or a beekeeper outfit on the street would not bother* you, but a Muslim woman in a niqab would. 

*Bother:  make uncomfortable in some way, such as disturb, worry or offend. 

[Goddess]

5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Ok. I will answer what I think you would, if you would.

 You are of the opinion that Muslim women should not cover their face, but others can. This does not mean carte blanche to face coverings in all circumstances, but that someone wearing a balaclava or a beekeeper outfit on the street would not bother* you, but a Muslim woman in a niqab would. 

*Bother:  make uncomfortable in some way, such as disturb, worry or offend. 

Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference between winter-wear and an extremist religious garment that promotes  and legitimizes beliefs completely out of harmony with what Canadians value?

And a beekeeper outfit???  Seriously???  You insist on comparing an offensive and harmful extremist religious garment to a beekeeper outfit??

[DogOnPorch]

19 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference between winter-wear and an extremist religious garment that promotes  and legitimizes beliefs completely out of harmony with what Canadians value?

And a beekeeper outfit???  Seriously???  You insist on comparing an offensive and harmful extremist religious garment to a beekeeper outfit??

 

A uniform sends a message. Always...

 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference between winter-wear and an extremist religious garment that promotes  and legitimizes beliefs completely out of harmony with what Canadians value?

Why is it impossible for you to accept that there are women who freely choose to wear hijabs?  Further to that are you completely oblivious to the incongruity of trying to protect women from doing something against their will by forcing them to do something against their will?

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference between winter-wear and an extremist religious garment that promotes  and legitimizes beliefs completely out of harmony with what Canadians value?

And a beekeeper outfit???  Seriously???  You insist on comparing an offensive and harmful extremist religious garment to a beekeeper outfit??

When I saw the guy in the beekeeper outfit, i found it strange-looking and uncomfortable to wear; it was off-putting.   I also wondered about the person inside, why he wore it and if everything is ok in his world. I think its probably not an ideal situation for him. This is exactly the reaction I have to the niqab and burqa.  But I did not find the beekeeper outfit to be personally offensive, nor do I find the burqa or niqab personally offensive. 

When I see women dressed in long dresses and wearing bonnets, I also wonder if those women are comfortable and ok in that lifestyle - but I don't find them personally offensive, nor do I look at them as legitimizing values out of harmony with Canadian values.  Do you?  

And you are right, the balaclava isn't a great comparison.  

I asked you previously if you would care to move the conversation along to how we might identify and help women who are actually wearing the burqa/niqab entirely at the will of their husband or parents.

 

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Why is it impossible for you to accept that there are women who freely choose to wear hijabs?  Further to that are you completely oblivious to the incongruity of trying to protect women from doing something against their will by forcing them to do something against their will?

To be fair, Goddess doesn't actually advocate for laws banning face coverings.  Or at least she didn't the last time I checked a few months ago.  Although it can be hard to keep that in mind when she's so anti-niqab on a topic about banning it. 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

To be fair, Goddess doesn't actually advocate for laws banning face coverings.

That said what outcome other than arresting people could there possibly be if she had her way?

[dialamah]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That said what outcome other than arresting people could there possibly be if she had her way?

There is educating people about the ill effects Goddess talks about.   Doing more to ensure that domestic violence is addressed in our society.   But these things are slow to work and not really 100% effective.  

But making it illegal is even less effective, imo.  It creates an atmosphere where one can martyr oneself for love of God and that's not what we want, is it?   

The protest in Iran is billed as a protest against veiling, but its actually a protest against "compulsory" veiling.  Its the lack of choice that is the issue, not the garment itself.   

 

 

[CITIZEN_2015]

Victory to all feminist movements especially the extremely brave women of Iran. In a true democratic and socially advanced society nothing is made mandatory. Hijab or lack of it. 

[PIK]

Somebody better tell trudeau.