CSIS spying on those who disagree with government

[Hal 9000]

That's an incredibly shoddy rationalization for completely unjustified use of powers that were supposedly created "to protect national security".

It if were an NDP government using warrantless surveillance on Conservative Party gatherings on a flimsy pretext like "looking for violent ultra-right-wing extremists" I doubt you'd be accepting of such laughable arguments.

-k

I don't know about that. I just think that any political group should be accountable - and these are political groups.

[Black Dog]

Depends upon if people associated with the party had ever been suspect of any sort of 'terrorism'. Which some eco groups actually have, and when your talking about projects that are of national interest, maybe they should be watched, they are after all trying to prevent these projects from happening, it only takes one true believer to do something really harmful.

Better put surveillance on every single group on every single cause just in case someone associated with them does something illegal.

[Michael Hardner]

...these are political groups.

So are we.

[On Guard for Thee]

So are we.

CSIS probably has it's eye on us.

[Mighty AC]

Interesting. I recently read "Party Of One: Stephen Harper And Canada's Radical Makeover" by Michael Harris. In it he mentions interviewing an intelligence office in the Canadian foreign service who made Harris remove the battery to his phone. He said, the PMO has had him followed in the past and couldn't be certain that Harris didn't really work for CSIS.

I find it odd that conservative voters would defend moves to increase the power of government over citizens.

New Link: Start listening at 6:40

Edited August 14, 2015 by Mighty AC

[Hal 9000]

I don't care for the idea on it's premise, but when I was more left leaning/NDP, I hung around with a lot of these types of people and there was always talk of "how far we'll go" and there were always radicals who were wanting to go to the most extreme - ya' know, for the cause. Most of these groups talk about peaceful protests, but if someone spiked trees or called in a bomb threat, it's all for the greater good - and yes, it has happened.

[Freddy]

Good of you to step up.

Sure I'll hunt them down like dogs for csis, if they ask.

[cybercoma]

I don't understand

Seems to be a recurring issue.

[cybercoma]

I find it odd that conservative voters would defend moves to increase the power of government over citizens.

Those aren't ideological conservatives. They're just rabid partisans without an ounce of integrity.

[GostHacked]

These types of abuses are sure to happen when we have this much surveillance. There needs to be oversight to prevent them.

This is kind of going counter to your overall stance with regards to technology and persistent surveillance.

[GostHacked]

Depends upon if people associated with the party had ever been suspect of any sort of 'terrorism'. Which some eco groups actually have, and when your talking about projects that are of national interest, maybe they should be watched, they are after all trying to prevent these projects from happening, it only takes one true believer to do something really harmful.

And yet Lone Wolfe scenarios like the dude on Parliament Hill still can and will happen no matter how much surveillance the government puts in.

The believers that are dangerous are the ones riding high off our tax money claiming they are spying on all of us in our best interest. 'If you are not doing anything wrong....' .. but as soon as we turn the cameras in on them .. we get a very very different reaction ... why? I don't really expect logical answers.

[On Guard for Thee]

Sure I'll hunt them down like dogs for csis, if they ask.

Apparently they need some brain dead idiots.

[Moonlight Graham]

CSIS seems to be going after peaceful protestors and sharing that information with corporations. It's despicable.

I agree, this is a terrible abuse of government. If there was good reason to suspect them of committing crimes, that's another story. If there's no evidence they will commit crimes, they must be left alone.

See, Argus, we were talking about this before, and like I said: keep giving the government extraordinary powers to combat terrorism, and they'll keep finding ways to classify more stuff as terrorism. You assured me that "no no no, they wouldn't abuse these powers, people wouldn't stand for it!" Well, how's that working out?

I agree, give government an inch and they'll take it. It's like out of a movie or fiction novel. I cant believe the age we live in, giving all the warnings we've had about this. The public are bunch of gullible idiots to not being going crazy over these kinds of abuses.

[poochy]

So who was abused again? If i get given a ride check on my way home from work on a Saturday, summer night, on a holiday weekend, was I also abused?

From what I read here, if I so choose to believe i was, i must have been.

[poochy]

And yet Lone Wolfe scenarios like the dude on Parliament Hill still can and will happen no matter how much surveillance the government puts in.

The believers that are dangerous are the ones riding high off our tax money claiming they are spying on all of us in our best interest. 'If you are not doing anything wrong....' .. but as soon as we turn the cameras in on them .. we get a very very different reaction ... why? I don't really expect logical answers.

Im pretty sure the argument that, things can happen, even if we try to stop them, isn't much of a reason not to bother trying to stop them, o, and nothing happened to anyone, but that is apparently some form of abuse. Anyway, I think some of you would prefer something did happen, rather than maybe have it prevented, after all, we wouldn't want to abuse people by paying attention to them, since history has shown, that this sort of thing has never happened before, anywhere, ever. I suppose they could stop acting like children, protesting projects of national interest, trying to prevent them from being built, while driving to the protests in their gas powered cars, if not I suppose they can expect some scrutiny.

[The_Squid]

It won't be a surprise when a terrorist group actually does manage to harm Canada with CSIS running around spying on people that aren't dangerous.

It's irresponsible and a waste of resources that should be used looking for actual dangers. Sheer stupidity.

[Freddy]

Apparently they need some brain dead idiots.

If you think our canadian spy agency would order to assassinate citizens, Your smarter then a two by four, but dumber then a two by six.

[Topaz]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't "terrorism" creating terror or fear in people, which this Bill51 is doing to most Canadians and therefore, against Bill51???

[Evening Star]

One simple, poorly written newspaper article and you think you have a zinger. This doesn't bother me in any way. You are just trying to create controversy where none exists.

Here's the Vancouver Observer report from 2013: http://www.vancouverobserver.com/politics/harper-governments-extensive-spying-anti-oilsands-groups-revealed-fois?page=0,0

[socialist]

Here's the Vancouver Observer report from 2013: http://www.vancouverobserver.com/politics/harper-governments-extensive-spying-anti-oilsands-groups-revealed-fois?page=0,0

Again, this publication panders to the radicals. Radicals are radicals....they have no regard for institutions. Better luck next time.

[Evening Star]

Again, this publication panders to the radicals. Radicals are radicals....they have no regard for institutions. Better luck next time.

Are the BCCLA pandering to radicals too? Is the information incorrect or are you arguing that there is nothing wrong with doing this (in which case the radicalism of the publication doesn't seem that relevant)?

[Evening Star]

CBC: http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/britishcolumbia/story/1.3188231

They present a pro-CSIS/government viewpoint here as well, fwiw. Perhaps it will turn out that there were some justifiable reasons for this but it is certainly a valid issue to be concerned about.

[socialist]

Are the BCCLA pandering to radicals too? Is the information incorrect or are you arguing that there is nothing wrong with doing this (in which case the radicalism of the publication doesn't seem that relevant)?

I feel there is nothing wrong with doing this. I appreciate a government taking steps to keep me safe. I have a problem with government raising taxes to pay for nonsense such as nationalized daycare.

[Michael Hardner]

I have a problem with government raising taxes to pay for nonsense such as nationalized daycare.

we need to get kids into government run daycares by the age of 1 so that their minds can be molded correctly.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/21228-homeschooling/?p=817342

[Evening Star]

I feel there is nothing wrong with doing this. I appreciate a government taking steps to keep me safe. I have a problem with government raising taxes to pay for nonsense such as nationalized daycare.

See, expanding the power of an intelligence agency to gather information on peaceful democratic groups and potentially share these with corporate interests seems like a much greater potential threat to individual liberty to me than having to pay x% tax instead of y%.