Immigration

[msj]

Given you're someone who is obviously anti-Canadian, I think it speaks well of him that you don't like him.

I'm pro smart people who are willing to work hard while seeking opportunities to grow into a senior/manager role (or even become a partner) at an accounting firm that specializes in tax and audit.

All our staff and partners are Canadian.

But some were born and grew up elsewhere and as an employer I appreciate them more than what I generally see coming out of our system and culture.

[CITIZEN_2015]

If you are suggesting a 'small number' of Conservatives are racists or even extremely religious I would not be offended. It sounded very much like you were equating Conservatives and Reformers to Nazis and Serbians. So if I misconstrued your intent I apologize. But you should be more careful in how you phrase things.

Yes that was what I was suggesting. I am lost to understand how one can conclude from my post which you quoted that I suggest all conservatives in Canada are Nazis murdering people. Though apology accepted and I apologize too if I lost my temper.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Not sure what you were arguing but Nazis were extreme Left Wing - Nazis is an abbreviation of the National Socialist Party.......and as far as religion, Nazis were predominantly atheists.

Excuse me!!!! Nazis are extreme left wing!!!!!. Did the sun rise from the West today?

All these years I thought Nazis and racist people are extreme right. Doesn't matter the name they call themselves lol is their actions which counts and were extreme right. Many dictatorial states in Middle East and Africa call themselves democratic republic but the name doesn't make them a democracy,

Edited September 7, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Charles Anthony]

Guys,

Please avoid thread drift!

Did the sun rise from the West today?

Not from where I am looking!

[carepov]

I would see what my chances were from the camp first. I would apply, and I would wait. I would not risk my family on the chance that I might get there and might be accepted. I would never take such chances with them.

Of course there are refugee camps where the risks of staying would be greater than the risks of fleeing...

[Argus]

It makes more sense for these refugees to choose between the countries who have participated in creating and maintaining instability there. Canada should take more Syrian and Libyan refugees.

The locals aren't responsible for anything that happens, I take it? I mean, they're not White, so it's not like they can be held to task for doing some dumb things.

The new leftist meme "Guns don't kill people, the people who make the guns and sell them to the people who kill people kill people."

[Argus]

Trudeau nows say we need to bring in 30,000 people from Syria TODAY, not over time but now. Does he not realize how stupid that would be?

I really and truly don't believe a man like Trudeau even pauses to consider whether doing what will make him feel good and generous actually makes any sense. I believe that is how Trudeau would run any government, simply selecting whatever feels good to him, with no regard for the sense of it, let alone the cost.

[Argus]

large stupid colorful pictogram of alleged facts deleted.

The organization behind these alleged facts?

Oh wait, look. They're wacko communists.

No One is Illegal-Vancouver Coast Salish Territories is a grassroots anti-colonial migrant justice group with leadership from members of migrant and/or racialized backgrounds. The ongoing apartheid reality instituted through reserves and sweatshops is one that must be fundamentally uprooted and transformed. We believe in decolonization and redistribution, and in dismantling interconnected systems such as capitalism, homophobia, imperialism, occupation, patriarchy, poverty, and racism.

[Argus]

So your saying 2.5 million people over Harpers term is not enough, considering we are a nation of just over what 40 million....2.5 million sounds a little high...

Wait till the NDP get in and you'll see it increase quite a bit, while they lower standards.

[Argus]

A 30% lower acceptance rate of refugees is a problem.

Why? Do you think all those Kenyans claiming to be Somalians will have to find somewhere else to go?

[Argus]

Immigration is not the same as refugee claimants. Making it harder for immigrants to reunite with families is an ethical mistake.

Taking in tens of thousands of unemployable third world illiterates is a mistake on so many more levels. But hey, if you want to, then let them live with you or let your pay be garnisheed to pay for them. I'm good with that.

[Argus]

Perhaps you have missed the part where Canada participated in turning Libya into a lawless shit hole.

They were clawing at each other like rabid cats. All we did was put an end to the war. It's not our fault that they couldn't hold together a government afterward. If we hadn't interfered they'd still be fighting tooth and nail anyway.

[eyeball]

Assad is no kind of Ally. But the West is now worried about what to do given that his disappearance would almost certainly let ISIS take over, and they would be even worse in all respects. Supporting him, on the other hand, is not really an option. It's a bloody mess. It's hard to see any good way out here. As bad as he is I think right now the best thing which could happen to Syria would be for him to win and wipe out all the rebels.

And you guys are sticking with the notion that there was no way anyone could have possibly seen this oceanic scale quagmire coming on the horizon? Poor stupid clueless West. At least it seems to be finally sinking in that things are going to get worse before they get better.

So any clue as to when you'll have this Mission Accomplished?

[Mighty AC]

Taking in tens of thousands of unemployable third world illiterates is a mistake on so many more levels. But hey, if you want to, then let them live with you or let your pay be garnisheed to pay for them. I'm good with that.

A common conservative sentiment. Wealthy, aging boomer lived through unprecedented levels of social support and market gains now wants others to fend for themselves so he can keep a few more bucks in his pocket.

We, in the west, have raped the world's resources and contributed to the instability around the world. I'm fine with tax dollars helping out humanitarian causes.

[Rue]

Army Guy you asked a question. How does the federal government determine capacity to absorb refugees. Well it does not. Therein lies the problem. I worked in the IRB a while back. It does not. What it does is come up with an arbitrary number. It then has nothing else to do with it and its up to the provinces and cities. The province off ramps much of their authority to the municipal governments and school boards.

No one is actually working with the 3 levels of government together in examining the ripple effect when you place refugees in Canada.

What we do have are stats as to social adjustment related issues such as crime alcoholism, domestic violence in certain communities.

We don't discuss it out loud because its politically incorrect. For example we have statistics that show alcoholism is a huge crippling phenomena in the Indo Pakistani communities but no one talks about it. Its swept under the rug although more community activists in this community are speaking out not withstanding being called traitors by their own community.

Adjustment issues can arise in all new Canadian communities and these communities fear if they admit such things it reinforces hatred against them. With certain refugees they have issues similar to a kind of post traumatic reaction that has a cluster of conditions including anger and domestic abuse, depression, anxiety, anorexia, bulimia, much higher rates of diabetes, cancer, diabetes, suicide, domestic violence, lung diseases from smoking and all kinds of mental illnesses exasperated by poor diet.

The community workers know but if they say it too loudly people call them racist for explaining how it impacts on their community. The hospitals and police, teachers, welfare workers, legal aid lawyers, Judges, we all know it

Now to answer your question Canada in theory has unlimited capacity to settle people. Most of our country is still empty. The problem is most refugees will not move to Northern Canada or small communities. They stay in Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal or other cities where existing communities of their same people exist. The Charter also gurantees them the right to stay where they are. Its also nice for the Quebec Minister to suddenly ask for Syrians but behind the rush to appear liberal and trendy is reality. Arabs in Quebec do not adjust well because of xenophobic reaction to them particularly when they do not change their appearance. Its ironic Quebec is the province passing a law saying you can't wear a hijab but now is up front asking for Muslims? There's disconnect between actual reality and the liberal guilt types who surface when a story hits the news. People from Haiti can't walk down the street in Montreal without getting stopped and you think everyone will clap and cheer seeing more Muslims walk the streets? Can we get real.

So to answer your question in cities, our capacity is far more limited. In smaller towns it becomes more unlimited physically but in smaller towns refugees have to handle the climate change, the lack of similar culture and they will have to deal with physical changes to diet, clothes, weather they would not in a city..

There is a fascinating study on Fillipinos. If you track their migration, they have managed to move and set up communities everywhere. The stereotype they would only live in warm climates proved false in Canada. They have a vibrant community in Winnipeg and they did quite well up North in Yellowknife for example. Jamaicans too and tend to be able to adjust and live almost anywhere. No one has a reason for that. I mean there are theories but we have no one reason. If we know why for example these two groups are so flexible in movement we could apply it to refugee adjustment issues.

So right now, unless we find away to move refugees to more Northern areas our capacity to absorb breaks down with social net issues.

That is your best answer.

You'd also have to speak directly with our refugee communities and their community workers to get a better understanding of post adjustment phenomena that is falling through the social safety net. One example is rising rates of functionally illiterate people.

Now its not racist to say, obviously a middle class Syrian which there are not many of who speak more than one language and have transferable skills will adjust better. Its just common sense someone who already reads and can speak English is more likely to adjust.

There is a phenonema where professionals from incoming countries who drop from top upper class status to just another refugee at the lower class of Canada are more likely to be depressed and angry. Its just common sense.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Rue

[Civis Romanus sum]

And you guys are sticking with the notion that there was no way anyone could have possibly seen this oceanic scale quagmire coming on the horizon? Poor stupid clueless West. At least it seems to be finally sinking in that things are going to get worse before they get better.

The West didn't start the Syrian crisis. Nor, despite suggests to the contrary, did it instigate it. It was a spillover from the Arab Spring. At first it seemed that it might pose a chance for a real change there, since the largest rebel group fighting Assad was a multi-party secularist group. But the West dithered about offering any real support. Meanwhile the likes of the Saudis and the gulf states poured money into other rebel groups, the religious zealots, of course. These thrived and grew, not only fighting Assad but destroying or absorbing other rebel groups who could not match their equipment. Now ISIS is the foremost group there, and the thought of them taking over from Assad is extremely unpallatable.

[Argus]

A common conservative sentiment. Wealthy, aging boomer lived through unprecedented levels of social support and market gains now wants others to fend for themselves so he can keep a few more bucks in his pocket.

A common Communist sentiment. Anyone who has money must be evil and have raped the third world.

In point of fact I was a busboy, then a cleaner, then a security guard for a lot of years before going back and getting my high school and then putting myself through college. So you can stick your privileged boomer nonsense. I'm not even a boomer, just missed the cohort.

I don't mind when the government spends my money on helping those who need help - inside Canada -- as long as its sensible and affordable. I don't like wasteful programs, however, and it's sure wasteful to bring in tens of thousands of third world types who have no ability to earn a decent income in Canada's current job environment. It helps them, sure, but I don't think my government's primary responsibility is to a bunch of foreigners. It's to Canadians first. It would make fiscal sense and be a dutiful thing to donate some money to the Jordanians, say, to help support the refugees in camps there. Our money would go much further that way and help a lot more refugees.

[Mighty AC]

A common Communist sentiment. Anyone who has money must be evil and have raped the third world.

In point of fact I was a busboy, then a cleaner, then a security guard for a lot of years before going back and getting my high school and then putting myself through college. So you can stick your privileged boomer nonsense. I'm not even a boomer, just missed the cohort.

It's not money I find evil, it's the sense of entitlement displayed by the me first and the gimme generation....and those close to it "We've already used generous social services and don't need them anymore, now give us tax breaks!"

I don't mind when the government spends my money on helping those who need help - inside Canada -- as long as its sensible and affordable. I don't like wasteful programs, however, and it's sure wasteful to bring in tens of thousands of third world types who have no ability to earn a decent income in Canada's current job environment.

The west rapes the world's resources and helps to create instability, conflict, wars, etc. yet you only feel committed to helping those with Canadian citizenship? Canadian poor would be the envy of those distressed and displaced by conflicts we have helped to create and regimes we assist, finance and sell weapons to.

It would make fiscal sense and be a dutiful thing to donate some money to the Jordanians, say, to help support the refugees in camps there. Our money would go much further that way and help a lot more refugees.

I also like the idea of helping nations adjacent to conflicts deal with caring for refugees. Through donations, security, peace keeping and also doing our share of housing the displaced people. The same financial argument applies to our involvement in the war on ISIS. The cost of contributing a handful of planes could be more effectively spent on humanitarian aid, security, training.

[Scotty]

IBut some were born and grew up elsewhere and as an employer I appreciate them more than what I generally see coming out of our system and culture.

What does that mean? Canadians expect to work decent hours and get decent pay while foreigners are easy to browbeat into working unpaid overtime and will take whatever you pay them? I know a lot of businesses prefer to hire foreigners for that very reason.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Scotty

[Scotty]

And you guys are sticking with the notion that there was no way anyone could have possibly seen this oceanic scale quagmire coming on the horizon?

If you're going to continue to insist the mess there is a direct result of actions taken by the West it's hard to resolve the issue of whether it could have been foreseen. The West neither caused nor is responsible for the Arab Spring. The Arab Spring is what started this mess. Sure, you can go back to the US invasion of Iraq if you want, and suppose that if they'd just stayed away everything in Iraq would be stable. Well, stable as the grave. I seem to recall you people on the left were screaming bloody abuse over the sanctions imposed on Iraq, so I suppose if we'd just done nothing things would be 'stable' and we could make sure all the death and destruction were taking place safely within Iraq's borders...

[msj]

What does that mean? Canadians expect to work decent hours and get decent pay while foreigners are easy to browbeat into working unpaid overtime and will take whatever you pay them? I know a lot of businesses prefer to hire foreigners for that very reason.

It means that when I am looking for the best candidate, which means who has the brains, who do I expect to have the work ethic, and who has the language skills (among others) that foreigners often beat Canadians even though foreigners often lack the language skills.

In fact, I'm willing to pay the foreigner to get the language skills as they usually beat Canadians in every other category. They are worth the investment. And yes these "foreigners" are Canadians if you were to look at their passports.

As a Canadian with ancestors going back so far that I deny any European heritage, who has worked hard and smart to get where I'm at, and who has been involved in the education of my profession (at the student level and member level) and who is involved in the local jobs centre which has a large literacy component, it is hardly my fault Canada produces what we produce.

Can't really blame the young ones though: complacency is baked into our population.

Travel to foreign countries and you will see why foreigners are willing to work so hard to get what we take for granted.

[WestCoastRunner]

What does that mean? Canadians expect to work decent hours and get decent pay while foreigners are easy to browbeat into working unpaid overtime and will take whatever you pay them? I know a lot of businesses prefer to hire foreigners for that very reason.

A lot? How many? What industry?

[eyeball]

The West didn't start the Syrian crisis. Nor, despite suggests to the contrary, did it instigate it. It was a spillover from the Arab Spring.

Which were several widespread revolts against dictatorships, several of which the West supported...mostly to thwart Springs from happening. To suggest the West's actions have had nothing to do with the catastrophe the ME region is descending into is just plain stupid.

That people in the region don't differentiate much between a dictatorship whether it a Western or Eastern bastard escapes you doesn't it? That's the sort of blind wilful ignorance that's guaranteed to turn this quagmire into WW3.

[eyeball]

The West neither caused nor is responsible for the Arab Spring. The Arab Spring is what started this mess.

See post above. The West had a huge hand in what caused the Arab Spring, namely decades and decades of trying to prevent one from ever happening in the first place.

Bastions of freedom, liberty and democracy my hairy left-wing ass.

[Argus]

A lot? How many? What industry?

Uhm, all of them. Why do you think so many were hiring Temporary Foreign Workers for? Because they could get them cheap, and because the TFWs would do whatever they were told and work whatever hours they were told to without daring to complain.