Immigration

[WestCoastRunner]

I'm just an amazing person.

You haven't answered how many close encounters you have had with the very people you don't want to allow into this country.

[Argus]

You haven't answered how many close encounters you have had with the very people you don't want to allow into this country.

Because, unlike you, I usually prefer not to personalize discussions which are not about me.

Nothing I've said on the subject requires personal knowledge, nor would be enhanced by it, since personal experience is invariably judged as unacceptable in support of positions here.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

Justin Trudeau demonstrates once again, that the purpose of immigration policies is to cement a political party's hold over immigrant voters, not to benefit Canada. He also demonstrates that he will whore himself out for votes without regard to the wisdom of any particular policy. Bringing in more old people is going to lead to increased health care costs and do nothing whatever to help the supposed goal of immigration in offsetting our aging population.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-promise-to-double-applications-for-parents-grandparents-of-new-immigrants/article26539846/

[dre]

This is the sad state of immigration in Canada. Yet anyone who questions its wisdom gets called names by leftists who have, bizarrely, embraced Mulroney's vastly increased immigration numbers as holy writ which only the most evil of racists would dare to question.

As usually your obsession with your own caricature of "the left" which exists only in your head is stopping you from tuning into reality.

The biggest force pushing for more immigration is Canadian business owners, the banks, and the chamber of commerce (hardly bastions of the left). Not your imaginary caricature of "the left".

In fact... the most anti-immigrant people I know are mostly left leaning union members.

I know that for you, everything boils down to "left vs right", but the reality is the world is not as simple as you are.

[Argus]

As usually your obsession with your own caricature of "the left" which exists only in your head is stopping you from tuning into reality.

The biggest force pushing for more immigration is Canadian business owners, the banks, and the chamber of commerce (hardly bastions of the left). Not your imaginary caricature of "the left".

In fact... the most anti-immigrant people I know are mostly left leaning union members.

I know that for you, everything boils down to "left vs right", but the reality is the world is not as simple as you are.

Are you saying Trudeau is on the Right? Is Mulcair, who has a similar plan, on the Right?

Everyone I know who is conservative is against immigration, or at least, the current version of it. Mind you, I admittedly don't know any bankers, just regular people. Everyone I know on the Left loves immigration wholeheartedly. On this site, every lefty is a vocal supporter of immigration and becomes enraged at any suggestion it be curtailed. Most of the Conservatives see major problems with our immigration system and would like to see major changes, if not outright halts.

Bankers and businessmen are neither right nor left. They exist apolitically, caring only for their own profits. You can't use them to judge 'the right'.

When i was a shop steward, every member of our local executive was unquestionably enthusiastic about immigration and multiculturalism regardless of whether that was good for their members jobs. They saw their role not as representing their membership's job interests so much as being activists to change society for the better. Being 'inclusive' was their mantra, their religion, and all were NDP voters.

[eyeball]

Justin Trudeau demonstrates once again, that the purpose of immigration policies is to cement a political party's hold over immigrant voters, not to benefit Canada. He also demonstrates that he will whore himself out for votes without regard to the wisdom of any particular policy. Bringing in more old people is going to lead to increased health care costs and do nothing whatever to help the supposed goal of immigration in offsetting our aging population.

OTOH, grandparents can alleviate a lot of child care costs while allowing the grandchildren's parents to focus on their careers and increase their income which can be taxed to offset our aging population. This sure seems to be a winning formula in my Chinese in-laws family.

[Argus]

OTOH, grandparents can alleviate a lot of child care costs while allowing the grandchildren's parents to focus on their careers and increase their income which can be taxed to offset our aging population. This sure seems to be a winning formula in my Chinese in-laws family.

And the older they are the more health care resources they consume. Your Chinese in-law parents, if they arrived as seniors or near seniors, never paid any taxes and never will, but the government is going to have to spend thousands of dollars a year, escalating to tens of thousands per year on their health care as they age. If your in-laws can't afford daycare on their own it's unlikely they are going to be able to pay enough taxes to offset the cost of their parents or grandparents health care and other social benefits.

And how are we offsetting an aging population by bringing in OLD immigrants?

[eyeball]

On this site, every lefty is a vocal supporter of immigration and becomes enraged at any suggestion it be curtailed. Most of the Conservatives see major problems with our immigration system and would like to see major changes, if not outright halts.

If you look more carefully you'll find most of the left-wing criticism of right-wing anti-immigrant positions is aimed at the wide deep undercurrent of racism that drives so much of it.

[G Huxley]

You haven't answered how many close encounters you have had with the very people you don't want to allow into this country.

I will answer that. I have traveled extensively through the Middle East and am appalled at the large family sizes and unsustainability of the population growth in those countries.

[eyeball]

And how are we offsetting an aging population by bringing in OLD immigrants?

Look at it this way, how are we helping our economy if young immigrants are paying child-care costs and sending what little extra they have to aging parents back home?

My in-laws arrived as young people and are still working.

[G Huxley]

If you look more carefully you'll find most of the left-wing criticism of right-wing anti-immigrant positions is aimed at the wide deep undercurrent of racism that drives so much of it.

While my general outlook is left I differ with much of the left on this.

[Argus]

If you look more carefully you'll find most of the left-wing criticism of right-wing anti-immigrant positions is aimed at the wide deep undercurrent of racism that drives so much of it.

\Yes, well, given that the definition of 'racist' among Lefties on this site is "anyone who questions any aspect of immigration' that would tend to follow.

[eyeball]

While my general outlook is left I differ with much of the left on this.

My sense is that we encourage our corporations to roam the world at will in search of better opportunities and as such I feel human beings should be allowed do the same, they're people too after all.

It's a matter of conscience for me.

[G Huxley]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Humans are the worst possible thing for the environment. You aren't being anti-corporate you are helping the corporate agenda.

[eyeball]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Humans are the worst possible thing for the environment. You aren't being anti-corporate you are helping the corporate agenda.

I'm being pro-Earthling and eschewing nationhood. That said, if we did stop corporations from running around like they own the place...they'd still use nations as a shell game for keeping assets and capital out of the reach of the tax man.

[G Huxley]

If you're pro-Earthling then you must stop humans from overwhelming the planet. We are creating a dust bowl and it's going to be hell. It already is in much of the world where it is an overpopulated polluted nightmare. The wonderful thing about Canada is that it isn't that yet, but is heading that way.

Edited September 26, 2015 by G Huxley

[eyeball]

I know what you're saying but I just think that ship set sail at least a couple of decades ago. It's probably like this on most every planet in the universe that gives rise to consciousness.

I'll bet most advanced species live on planets that are dust-bowls. I'll allow that a sense of appreciation for what one has can lead to enlightenment but I just think in our case our strongest sense of appreciation is almost always after the fact for things we've lost.

[G Huxley]

"I know what you're saying but I just think that ship set sail at least a couple of decades ago."

Centuries ago. The only hope is to try to stop the process.

"

I'll bet most advanced species live on planets that are dust-bowls. I'll allow that a sense of appreciation for what one has can lead to enlightenment but I just think in our case our strongest sense of appreciation is almost always after the fact for things we've lost."

Agreed. Says something about our species doesn't it? We can't value it until we've destroyed it.

[ToadBrother]

OTOH, grandparents can alleviate a lot of child care costs while allowing the grandchildren's parents to focus on their careers and increase their income which can be taxed to offset our aging population. This sure seems to be a winning formula in my Chinese in-laws family.

What if the grandparents want to do something besides raise their kid's kids? When my kids finally do produce offspring, I'll love to have them over, and even look afte them on occasion, but I'm not going to be transformed into their daycare solution.

[ToadBrother]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Humans are the worst possible thing for the environment. You aren't being anti-corporate you are helping the corporate agenda.

Oh give it up. The worst environmental calamity in the history of the world was created by cyanobacteria about 2.3 billion years ago.

[eyeball]

Delete

Edited September 26, 2015 by eyeball

[eyeball]

What if the grandparents want to do something besides raise their kid's kids? When my kids finally do produce offspring, I'll love to have them over, and even look afte them on occasion, but I'm not going to be transformed into their daycare solution.

Different strokes for different folks, I was just pointing out to Argus that it's not as black and white/either or.

And never say never, if people are provided examples of different solutions that make sense because they work they'll follow them. That said I expect there are as many immigrant families who will adopt to Canadian ways and be more like yours.

As for bringing down healthcare costs, many of which relate to a shortage of doctors and resources, more immigrants in Canada may translate into greater pressure on governments to allow doctors from other countries in, or better yet and with a view to avoiding draining other countries of their brains, facilitate an easier process for Canadians to get medical procedures performed in other countries.

[Argus]

My sense is that we encourage our corporations to roam the world at will in search of better opportunities and as such I feel human beings should be allowed do the same, they're people too after all.

It's a matter of conscience for me.

Good for you. Tell you what, you and others like you can volunteer to pay a special immigrant-support surcharge on your taxes to look after all these hundreds of thousands of third world people and their grannies. That seems fair to me.

[eyeball]

Good for you. Tell you what, you and others like you can volunteer to pay a special immigrant-support surcharge on your taxes to look after all these hundreds of thousands of third world people and their grannies. That seems fair to me.

I think it would be a lot more fair if the tax was applied to the corporations that are running around the planet stirring up the shit that compels so many people to want to flee.

[Argus]

As for bringing down healthcare costs, many of which relate to a shortage of doctors and resources, more immigrants in Canada may translate into greater pressure on governments to allow doctors from other countries in, or better yet and with a view to avoiding draining other countries of their brains, facilitate an easier process for Canadians to get medical procedures performed in other countries.

Great idea. Those like you who are paying the new immigrant-support surcharge will also be in a special group which gets treated entirely by immigrant doctors from Chad and Indonesia. I'll get treated by the doctors who were trained here.