Feminism has destroyed more lives than it's advanced.

WestCoastRunner · June 2, 2015

I didn't think I needed to make a case that the two income family was now just about a requirement. Why do you suppose it used to be the exception? People working fairly ordinary jobs used to be able to support a family which consisted of a wife and usually three or four kids reasonably well. Can you put forth a reason why that stopped happening? And it stopped happening well before offshore outsourcing.

To blame any economic woes on feminism is simply ridiculous. The economy is driven by many factors and it's simply too complex to say it's all the fault of feminists.

WestCoastRunner · June 2, 2015

And a lot of women to be single, too.

Believe it or not but many women prefer to be single. It's not a bad thing.

Hal 9000 · June 2, 2015

Black Dog: It's probably time men got with the program then.

If a woman doesn't do as she's told, she can hit the bricks

Sorry, i should've given this some context

Edited June 2, 2015 by Hal 9000

cybercoma · June 2, 2015

Let me make it politically correct for you.

Many women have changed

some Men reluctant to take on new modern roles women have planned for them.

Some men didn't want to give up having black slaves in their homes either. The men who don't want to give up having wife-slaves will be left behind as well.

WestCoastRunner · June 2, 2015

And yet: Couples who share housework have the most sex and best sex lives

I was going to mention that but we all know that I would have been called out on the carpet for daring to suggest that men consider sex a high priority in their relationships. Of course, not a word was mentioned when you stated it.

Hal 9000 · June 2, 2015

I was going to mention that but we all know that I would have been called out on the carpet for daring to suggest that men consider sex a high priority in their relationships. Of course, not a word was mentioned when you stated it.

Personally, I never read the article when BD posted it because i don't find it relevant to the topic.

WestCoastRunner · June 2, 2015

Personally, I never read the article when BD posted it because i don't find it relevant to the topic.

You didn't need to read the article to get the gist of it. You only needed to read the headline.

And of course it's relevant to the topic. The poster who started this topic said 'Feminism has destroyed more lives than it's advanced'. Are you suggesting that improved sex lives does not improve lives? Feminism has encouraged men to share in the housework, hence, a better sex life.

Edited June 2, 2015 by WestCoastRunner

Hal 9000 · June 2, 2015

You didn't need to read the article to get the gist of it. You only needed to read the headline.

And of course it's relevant to the topic. The poster who started this topic said 'Feminism has destroyed more lives than it's advanced'. Are you suggesting that improved sex lives does not improve lives? Feminism has encouraged men to share in the housework, hence, better a better sex life.

I didn't originally read it because whenever i hear the words " a new study reveals", i have to wonder. I mean, who decides whats fair or equal. If it's true, fine, but I wonder if men and women have the same idea of what is equal housework. Men probably think they do an equal amount, but if their wives don't feel they do enough - then what?

Men should do half the housework anyway, and i'd wager that the majority of men do.

P.S - I'd give up one date night per month to have her do all the house work......lol!

WestCoastRunner · June 2, 2015

I didn't originally read it because whenever i hear the words " a new study reveals", i have to wonder. I mean, who decides whats fair or equal. If it's true, fine, but I wonder if men and women have the same idea of what is equal housework. Men probably think they do an equal amount, but if their wives don't feel they do enough - then what?

Men should do half the housework anyway, and i'd wager that the majority of men do.

P.S - I'd give up one date night per month to have her do all the house work......lol!

but if you shared in the housework and had double the sexual encounters, what would you do?

Hal 9000 · June 2, 2015

but if you shared in the housework and had double the sexual encounters, what would you do?

What would I do? WoW!, that's a personal question.

WestCoastRunner · June 2, 2015

What would I do? WoW!, that's a personal question.

You would share in the housework, right?

Hal 9000 · June 2, 2015

You would share in the housework, right?

Oh, I thought you were asking something else - lol!

We already share the work equally (as far as I know). Our chores are somewhat unconventional, I do all the laundry and plants and most of the dishes while she BBq's, tends the animals and mows the lawn. We share in most other chores and running the kids to their things, and utilize the kids when we can.

Bonam · June 2, 2015

I for one would hire another person to do the housework while we both free up all that extra time for even more "sexual encounters"...

Time has value, and housework is one of the lowest value tasks one can do with their time, unless one works for minimum wage. Is it better to spend an hour cleaning your house, or spend an extra hour working and use half that money to hire someone else to clean your house for an hour and pocket the other half? I for one would much prefer to spend an extra hour at work doing what I do best, and hire someone else (say, a janitor, or a cook, etc) to do what they do best.

If the issue isn't the house work itself but the pleasant feelings that both spouses get from feeling like they are both working towards a common goal, being part of a team, helping each other, relying upon each other, etc, then there are many recreational activities where those same feelings can be reproduced, while also being much more fun, providing exercise or mental stimulation, etc.

Edit: Some house tasks are best done by the spouses themselves than by hired help. For example, when they have children, they should spend some time parenting themselves. But in my experience once you eliminate all the meaningless drudgery of cleaning, cooking, mowing, etc, then the remaining tasks that are actually meaningful, like parenting, are enjoyed by both people, and it's not a matter of trying to divide up the burden but rather enjoying the opportunity to carry it out.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Bonam

WestCoastRunner · June 2, 2015

I for one would hire another person to do the housework while we both free up all that extra time for even more "sexual encounters"...

Time has value, and housework is one of the lowest value tasks one can do with their time, unless one works for minimum wage. Is it better to spend an hour cleaning your house, or spend an extra hour working and use half that money to hire someone else to clean your house for an hour and pocket the other half? I for one would much prefer to spend an extra hour at work doing what I do best, and hire someone else (say, a janitor, or a cook, etc) to do what they do best.

If the issue isn't the house work itself but the pleasant feelings that both spouses get from feeling like they are both working towards a common goal, being part of a team, helping each other, relying upon each other, etc, then there are many recreational activities where those same feelings can be reproduced, while also being much more fun, providing exercise or mental stimulation, etc.

And if it wasn't for women fighting for equal rights, what you have mentioned above would never have been possible.

WestCoastRunner · June 2, 2015

Oh, I thought you were asking something else - lol!

We already share the work equally (as far as I know). Our chores are somewhat unconventional, I do all the laundry and plants and most of the dishes while she BBq's, tends the animals and mows the lawn. We share in most other chores and running the kids to their things, and utilize the kids when we can.

What did you think I was asking? Wait, don't answer that!

Bonam · June 2, 2015

And if it wasn't for women fighting for equal rights, what you have mentioned above would never have been possible.

I fully support equal rights for women. And, I fully agree the feminist movement was instrumental in securing those rights for women. Nor do I agree with the title of the thread.

People are looking at these things all wrong, and many might perhaps be living their lives wrong, honestly. We live in the age of the internet, of cloud services, and of the sharing economy. There is almost no monotonous task that has to be done that you can't easily hire someone to do for a reasonable price. Yes, people making minimum wage probably can't afford to hire someone else, but anyone who is working in "middle class" jobs can not only afford it but can benefit by not wasting their own valuable time on these tasks.

cybercoma · June 2, 2015

I didn't originally read it because whenever i hear the words " a new study reveals", i have to wonder.

"I didn't read the study because why would I want to learn from people who spend their lives studying, researching, and understanding issues that I know nothing about? I'd rather just settle on uninformed opinions than fact-finding evidence-based research."

Michael Hardner · June 2, 2015

"I didn't read the study because why would I want to learn from people who spend their lives studying, researching, and understanding issues that I know nothing about? I'd rather just settle on uninformed opinions than fact-finding evidence-based research."

To be fair, the MSM press' handling of "recent studies" is an affront to the art of communication.

cybercoma · June 2, 2015

To be fair, the MSM press' handling of "recent studies" is an affront to the art of communication.

Go to the study then. At least the MSM refers to them and often gives the authors. It should only take another minute or so to find the actual abstract and full article if you have access.

Scotty · June 2, 2015

Feminism has changed the family dynamics.

Women have evolved

Men have not

I agree with the first, but dispute the others. Women haven't changed all that much. If you look at career choices for women, they still tend to prefer the sort of nurturing, caring, helping sort of jobs. Women flock to jobs as teachers and early childhood educators, as nurses and doctors and therapists and homecare workers. In business, women seem to prefer the human resources department. Women shy away from STEM careers almost entirely. Only 13% have ever concerned a career in a STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) field.

As for men, it would be silly to say they haven't changed. They've changed enormously, especially the younger generation. I'm not sure how much for the better that is, mind you, as the younger men I know tend to be pretty narcissistic and self absorbed, drama queens, some of them, and given to crying at inappropriate times. In other words, they've become more like some women.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Scotty

Michael Hardner · June 2, 2015

At least the MSM refers to them and often gives the authors.

True enough, but you actually need the MSM to frame things like - legitimacy, general consensus, reaction and so on.

MSM, being on a profit motive and now also in survival mode, is a pure eyeballs+clicks based business with reduced focus on public service.

Black Dog · June 2, 2015

I agree with the first, but dispute the others. Women haven't changed all that much. If you look at career choices for women, they still tend to prefer the sort of nurturing, caring, helping sort of jobs. Women flock to jobs as teachers and early childhood educators, as nurses and doctors and therapists and homecare workers. In business, women seem to prefer the human resources department. Women shy away from STEM careers almost entirely. Only 13% have ever concerned a career in a STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) field.

It varies by field: biosciences, for example, are more than 50% female.When we talk about the lack of women in STEM, we're really talking about two fields: computer science and engineering.

As for men, it would be silly to say they haven't changed. They've changed enormously, especially the younger generation. I'm not sure how much for the better that is, mind you, as the younger men I know tend to be pretty narcissistic and self absorbed, drama queens, some of them, and given to crying at inappropriate times. In other words, they've become more like some women.

You mean they've learned to express emotions in ways other than getting angry? Geez what a bunch of poofs! :rolleyes:

Freddy · June 2, 2015

What's your definition of a good old fashioned woman?

A woman who is not frustrated and feeling trapped by the natural circumstances that has put a heavier burden on her in the task of reproduction.

A woman that accepts that she is a women.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Freddy

bush_cheney2004 · June 2, 2015

A woman who is not frustrates and feeling trapped by the natural circumstances that has put a heavier burden on her in the task of reproduction.

A woman that accepts that she is a women.

Good point...a woman is not defined by what a man does. That just reinforces the patriarchy.

Black Dog · June 2, 2015

A woman who is not frustrates and feeling trapped by the natural circumstances that has put a heavier burden on her in the task of reproduction.

A woman that accepts that she is a women.

Feeling frustrated and trapped is a pretty natural byproduct of the natural circumstances of child reproduction and it has ever been thus. Basically, you want women who are blissful brood mares.