Feminism has destroyed more lives than it's advanced.

[Hal 9000]

I think I need to take some courses on marriage counselling before I answer some of your posts. Seriously guys, can you not take care of your marriages and satisfying the sex lives of your partners?

I thought I was, but now I'm not so sure. Thanks WCR!

[Freddy]

I think I need to take some courses on marriage counselling before I answer some of your posts. Seriously guys, can you not take care of your marriages and satisfying the sex lives of your partners?

We're having a conversation, sharing ideas. It's usually the enjoyable part of a forum, If we let it take its own life.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Freddy

[Freddy]

Which brings me to the next subject. I feel like we constantly are trying to shame masculinity. Like you should be ashamed of it?

The hell with that!!!!!

That's like trying to shame femininity.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Freddy

[Hal 9000]

I think what WCR is suggesting is that women love masculinity...just not from their husbands.

[Guest]

It depends on what you mean by masculinity.

This?

Masculinity (also called manliness or manhood) is a set of attributes, behaviors, and roles generally associated with boys and men.

To me, any man who cannot completely look after himself in all aspects of life is not a real man. So my definition of masculinity includes all the things my Mom did, as well as all the things my Dad did.

Edited June 6, 2015 by bcsapper

[Freddy]

I think what WCR is suggesting is that women love masculinity...just not from their husbands.

I think what WCR is suggesting is that women love masculinity...just not from their husbands.

Well that's not bad but not really super healthy.

[Freddy]

It depends on what you mean by masculinity.

This?

Masculinity (also called manliness or manhood) is a set of attributes, behaviors, and roles generally associated with boys and men.

To me, any man who cannot completely look after himself in all aspects of life is not a real man. So my definition of masculinity includes all the things my Mom did, as well as all the things my Dad did.

Yes everyone can take care of themselves.

But a marriage of two people is a union. You become one. I thought it was the whole point to become co-dependent on each other.

[Guest]

Yes everyone can take care of themselves.

But a marriage of two people is a union. You become one. I thought it was the whole point to become co-dependent on each other.

Emotionally. But I'll do my own laundry.

And anyway, we were not talking about marriage, we were talking about masculinity. One doesn't have to be married.

[Freddy]

Emotionally. But I'll do my own laundry.

And anyway, we were not talking about marriage, we were talking about masculinity. One doesn't have to be married.

How do you become co-dependent on each other emotionally?

[Guest]

How do you become co-dependent on each other emotionally?

You had me confused, so I looked up co-dependent. It doesn't mean what I assumed it meant.

Codependent relationships are a type of dysfunctional helping relationship where one person supports or enables another person's addiction, poor mental health, immaturity, irresponsibility, or under-achievement.

I apologise. I misunderstood you. I am not in any way co-dependent with anyone.

[Freddy]

You had me confused, so I looked up co-dependent. It doesn't mean what I assumed it meant.

Codependent relationships are a type of dysfunctional helping relationship where one person supports or enables another person's addiction, poor mental health, immaturity, irresponsibility, or under-achievement.

I apologise. I misunderstood you. I am not in any way co-dependent with anyone.

That's the definition when one is taking advantage of the other..

If you're co-dependent and both members are being equally productive towards the relationship.

You're definition is more simply being dependent on somone but that person is not dependent on you.

Like a child.

Co dependency is two individuals living life as a team. One playing forward and the other playing defense.

[jacee]

That's the definition when one is taking advantage of the other..

If you're co-dependent and both members are being equally productive towards the relationship.

You're definition is more simply being dependent on somone but that person is not dependent on you.

Like a child.

Co dependency is two individuals living life as a team. One playing forward and the other playing defense.

No that's not how that term is used, Freddy.

That's a healthy mutual dependency.

'Co-dependency' is a clinical term used to describe addicts dependency on a substance, and co-dependent partner's involvement in enabling and sustaining the addiction.

.

.

[cybercoma]

I'm blaming it on feminist males. Masculinity is important in fulfilling those female sexual needs.

The same way a women being feminine fulfills a man.

What does being male and feminist have to do with masculinity? What a hilariously stupid comment, considering you would probably be the first to call female feminists overly masculine.

[Guest]

How do you become co-dependent on each other emotionally?

Well, notwithstanding what either of us thought coodependent meant, what I meant was just that my bond with a partner might be such that I would suffer emotionally if it were severed, but I would still have clean clothes and eat just fine.

I might have to learn how to do taxes.

[Freddy]

No that's not how that term is used, Freddy.

That's a healthy mutual dependency.

'Co-dependency' is a clinical term used to describe addicts dependency on a substance, and co-dependent partner's involvement in enabling and sustaining the addiction.

.

.

Cool, Thanks. It's why I enjoy forums. It helps me learn through discussion.

[Freddy]

Which brings me to the next subject. I feel like we constantly are trying to shame masculinity. Like you should be ashamed of it?

The hell with that!!!!!

That's like trying to shame femininity.

I'm trying to figure out why this is happening.

[Hal 9000]

Jacee is right about codependency, however it extends far beyond addictions. It's usually about one person being in a rut or negative situation and the other helping keep them there. The addict needs the other for money or support, and their codependant gives it to them because it makes them feel needed. They both get something unhealthy from the union.

It's usually a parent/child relationship, where the parent likes to have the child constantly sick, unemployed, addicted or simply living at home past an acceptable age, but husband/wife forms are common too where it's usually an addiction or abuse situation. This is why sometimes the wife won't report abuse (see Ray/Janay Rice) because she gets something out of it too - however sick that might seem. Friends might encourage each other to do drugs or stay on welfare etc. because they're afraid of moving on so they enable each other to be losers together.

[Freddy]

Jacee is right about codependency, however it extends far beyond addictions. It's usually about one person being in a rut or negative situation and the other helping keep them there. The addict needs the other for money or support, and their codependant gives it to them because it makes them feel needed. They both get something unhealthy from the union.

It's usually a parent/child relationship, where the parent likes to have the child constantly sick, unemployed, addicted or simply living at home past an acceptable age, but husband/wife forms are common too where it's usually an addiction or abuse situation. This is why sometimes the wife won't report abuse (see Ray/Janay Rice) because she gets something out of it too - however sick that might seem. Friends might encourage each other to do drugs or stay on welfare etc. because they're afraid of moving on so they enable each other to be losers together.

So giving sex as a commodity could be a form of codependency.

Or a pimp and his prostitutes that are addicted to drugs.

[Hal 9000]

So giving sex as a commodity could be a form of codependency.

Or a pimp and his prostitutes that are addicted to drugs.

Not really. As I said before, that's more of business or trade arrangement.

[Freddy]

Not really. As I said before, that's more of business or trade arrangement.

The modern working women. She's all business.

[Black Dog]

I have no problem winning and dining - that is fair exchange in my books. I find it patronizing to get sex in exchange for doing laundry of mowing the lawn. I shouldn't be made to feel like an employee paid with sex for my services and I wouldn't have sex with wife and throw 50$ on the bed afterwards either.

Why is one a fair exchange and the other not?

[GostHacked]

The reason I wanted a cite is so that the thread would have something solid to base a discussion on. As it is, we're already starting down a path with people on both sides making generalizations based on nothing.

This kind of thread sometimes gets stopped by the mods at the outset, as 'poor attempt to start a discussion' but there were already a few posts going so instead of stopping it, I asked Scotty to provide some kind of cite moving forward.

Blame that on the trolls and the idiots who cannot sustain any kind of reading comprehension. Instead they come out of the gates being idiots. But sure, blame the OP for what other people post.

[GostHacked]

What does being male and feminist have to do with masculinity? What a hilariously stupid comment, considering you would probably be the first to call female feminists overly masculine.

In my view feminism can be interpreted as attacking masculinity. I am not sure how I would put that concept into words, but maybe TV would have something to do with it. Men are more portrayed as stupid oafs compared to shows of the 60's lets say.

A feminist can proudly claim she is one and people will applaud. I as a man can proudly claim masculinity and I would get some push back.

The attraction females have to masculinity is an inherit one in our DNA. It's through so much social conditioning that it has been quite marginalized. If we want equality for all, why is there such a push back against masculinty from feminists?

[Black Dog]

In my view feminism can be interpreted as attacking masculinity. I am not sure how I would put that concept into words, but maybe TV would have something to do with it. Men are more portrayed as stupid oafs compared to shows of the 60's lets say.

Uh: Ralph Kramden anybody? Besides, it's not women writing these oafish characters (who are, without fail, married to beautiful women with endless reserves of patience: hardly a progressive, feminist model).

A feminist can proudly claim she is one and people will applaud. I as a man can proudly claim masculinity and I would get some push back.

I don't buy either of these claims.

The attraction females have to masculinity is an inherit one in our DNA. It's through so much social conditioning that it has been quite marginalized.

Masculinity is also socially constructed.

If we want equality for all, why is there such a push back against masculinty from feminists?

Because masculinity as it's been traditionally constructed is predicated on the submission of women.

[GostHacked]

Because masculinity as it's been traditionally constructed is predicated on the submission of women.

Oh ffs. Really?

Edited June 9, 2015 by GostHacked