Michael Hardner Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 But allowing Fundamentalist Christians to discriminate would still be completely wrong? I think this is the 3rd time I've pointed out that I support religious rights for Christians too... I don't know. See above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 I mock your use of the word 'comfort'. Why? Do you actually think there is something in the Talmud or other Jewish texts that say they cannot sit next to a woman?! If you do, I invite you to cite it. But I can save you the trouble. There isn't. The Jew is not being intolerant, he's expressing his religious freedom. The Christian... I don't know... something about uncomfortable. Ahh, I see. Let me make it harder for you. Let's say the Christian is non-white! And let's say he isn't even a westerner! Now he can do anything he wants if he believes his religion says he should, right? Did you not call them "gays" ? Is it forbidden to use that word? Should I have called them something else? I'm baffled by your bizarre response here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) I think this is the 3rd time I've pointed out that I support religious rights for Christians too... I don't know. See above. Then answer the question. Is it acceptable for a Fundamentalist Christian to refuse to be seated next to an obviously gay guy or a lesbian? Should the airline then ask the lesbian or gay guy to move? Edited May 22, 2015 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Right - Trinity Western University. That. I said so above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Right - Trinity Western University. That. I said so above. No, sorry, but that has nothing to do with the question. Trinity Western is specifically a Christian university run by and for Christians. I completely agree they should be able to do so according to their religious beliefs. I also would expect and accept Orthodox Jews to run their own religious communities by their laws. An airline is not a religious school or institution, though. Discriminating against people on an airline is an entirely different situation. Edited May 22, 2015 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Why? Do you actually think there is something in the Talmud or other Jewish texts that say they cannot sit next to a woman?! If you do, I invite you to cite it. But I can save you the trouble. There isn't. Religious tradition isn't exclusive to what is written in the holy books. There are a lot of Catholic rules and traditions that aren't in the Bible too. Now he can do anything he wants if he believes his religion says he should, right? Uh... aren't Jews white ? Not sure what you're asking here. Is it forbidden to use that word? Should I have called them something else? I'm baffled by your bizarre response here. No... it's just the word that you happened to use. I wouldn't necessarily use it. You did. Then answer the question. Is it acceptable for a Fundamentalist Christian to refuse to be seated next to an obviously gay guy or a lesbian? Should the airline then ask the lesbian or gay guy to move? I already said that I supported Trinity Western, and that nobody should be asked to move. I don't know that Christians have prohibitions against touching gays, but maybe I haven't heard about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 An airline is not a religious school or institution, though. Discriminating against people on an airline is an entirely different situation. If the airline tried to serve a Catholic meat on good Friday, I would support the Catholic person asking for fish and the airline trying to accommodate that request. How's that ? Are we close yet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 You could try serving rabbit. There was a time when Catholics managed to convince themselves that rabbits were actually some sort of fish. I guess if you've bought into transmogrification once it gets easier to swallow just about anything. They were of particular value for monasteries, because newborn rabbits were allegedly declared fish (or, at least, not-meat) by the church and therefore they could be eaten during Lent. Source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 You could try serving rabbit. There was a time when Catholics managed to convince themselves that rabbits were actually some sort of fish. I guess if you've bought into transmogrification once it gets easier to swallow just about anything. Perfect. Done and Done. Hardner Airlines will serve RabbitFish on Good Friday. Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H10 Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Sounds like a racist movie....jews on a plane, LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Perfect. Done and Done. Hardner Airlines will serve RabbitFish on Good Friday. Problem solved. So long as you don't serve it to someone sitting next to a vegan. Sorry for pissing on your pancakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Sorry for pissing on your pancakes. My religion demands that I don't consume urine and pancakes together, so if you do that I may ask you to move seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) What a thread, and what a forum. After a quick read through this thread (it's late for me and I may have missed a post; I even saw the name of Argus and Kimmy in a few posts), everyone seemed to miss the key point. Jews and Women did not hijack and fly planes into big buildings killing ordinary people like me. While I may think they're parochial, Orthodox Jews or Buddhist monks cause me no more discomfort while boarding a plane than fat women with short legs in mini-skirts. Indeed, I tend to feel safe beside such people. They're obviously honest. Edited July 5, 2015 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 While I may think they're parochial, Orthodox Jews or Buddhist monks cause me no more discomfort while boarding a plane than fat women with short legs in mini-skirts. Indeed, I tend to feel safe beside such people. They're obviously honest. Chasidic Jews, at least do not belong in the same sentence as the word "honest." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 If the airline tried to serve a Catholic meat on good Friday, I would support the Catholic person asking for fish and the airline trying to accommodate that request. How's that ? Are we close yet ? No. Half the population are female. You don't get to stand in an aisle and hold up a plane because you don't want to sit next to one. If your crazy ass religion says otherwise then walk to wherever it is you want to go, or fly yourself. When your problem becomes my problem then I'm going to make it your problem again. As in every one of those Jews should have been sued by the airline, and by every person whose flight they delayed. When such people can't afford bus fare any more they won't be a problem for airlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 No. Half the population are female. You don't get to stand in an aisle and hold up a plane because you don't want to sit next to one. Yeah, but that's not the example we're talking about anyway. We're talking about reasonable accommodation, not being an ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 If the airline tried to serve a Catholic meat on good Friday, I would support the Catholic person asking for fish and the airline trying to accommodate that request. How's that ? Are we close yet ? They will accommodate all kinds of dietary needs if you give them enough advance notice. but if you don't and there is no fish on the airplane, there is no fish on the airplane. Deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 To Michael - That is the crux of the challenge; What is REASONABLE accommodation and how/where it is applied in public and private venues. A racist would argue that to be forced to be seated next to a race that he finds uncomfortable is wrong and that a REASONABLE accommodation would be that he be reseated. A misogynist comes to the emergency ward of a hospital. He refuses to be seen by a female doctor. There is a male doctor available. Policy is to never turn away a patient in need. Does the hospital accommodate? What if a patient refuses to be treated by an intern? Now a question - If I was asked to finance a restaurant that needed cash and I agreed to do so only if minorities would not be hired to work there. The owner agrees - is that reasonable accommodation since he would go bankrupt without my investment? The old problem - what is reasonable to one person is not reasonable to another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 They will accommodate all kinds of dietary needs if you give them enough advance notice. but if you don't and there is no fish on the airplane, there is no fish on the airplane. Deal with it. That's reasonable, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 To Michael - That is the crux of the challenge; What is REASONABLE accommodation and how/where it is applied in public and private venues. Yes. If airlines want to accommodate people not sitting beside women, then why not ? I don't think waiting until you're in the plane and screaming at people needs to be accommodated, obviously. Now a question - If I was asked to finance a restaurant that needed cash and I agreed to do so only if minorities would not be hired to work there. The owner agrees - is that reasonable accommodation since he would go bankrupt without my investment? That's a private transaction and you seem to be asking what you can get away with, vs. the law. The old problem - what is reasonable to one person is not reasonable to another. Yes, and the fact is that although we are all irrational beings - common ground is easier to find than most people think. People would rather yell about edge cases than deal with the crux of the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) That's reasonable, I think. It is but it is also very different from what is being discussed here. Your dietary requirements have no bearing on your fellow passengers, this does. It makes certain seats on the aircraft unavailable to women. If the last seat available on the aircraft was next to one of these aholes, a woman could not get on the flight unless other passengers were moved from seats they had booked. They might ask other passengers politely if they would move but if the answer is no, then it is no. Deal with it, their religious and sexual hangups are their problem, not the other passengers and the airline should not have to keep a seat vacant just to appease them. BTW, I voted Other. I would accommodate them if I was given a seat I considered equal or an upgrade. Otherwise they could pound sand. Edited July 6, 2015 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 It is but it is also very different from what is being discussed here. Your dietary requirements have no bearing on your fellow passengers, this does. Not necessarily. The plane could accommodate this request, conceivably, without moving other passengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) Not necessarily. The plane could accommodate this request, conceivably, without moving other passengers. Only if when they booked their seats there were open seats next to them and they stipulated they couldn't have a women next to them. Then the airline would have to block off those open seats as unavailable to women. Otherwise, if the flight was full or nearly full and that seat was booked by a woman, either a male passenger would have to swap seats with her or the seat would have to be left vacant in order to appease these donkeys. Either way, she wouldn't get the seat of her choice because she is a woman and neither would the guy who had to swap with her. In other words, other passengers would have to go out of their way to demonstrate tolerance, so they could practice their intolerance. Edited July 6, 2015 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Seems reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Seems reasonable Not at all actually. Intolerance like this should never be accommodated. Sky fairy rights should and generally do come second to equality rights. An airline that appeases this kind of nonsense isn't one that I want to fly on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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