Women and Jews on a plane

[-1=e^ipi]

Men get discriminated on airlines too:

Should men be forced to sit away from children on the basis of their gender? Edited July 18, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

[msj]

Oh pardon me for not being inclusive enough, nor politically correct enough, to point out that discrimination against men for such baseless claims as they could be a rapist or child molester because, men! as not being part of the poll.

One would think it would be obvious that if one thinks it is bigoted and discriminatory to allow Jews to move women around because, gender! then it would also be discriminatory and bigoted to move men around because, gender!

Honestly, can one not see the parallels?

Can one not see that discriminating on the basis of race, gender, etc is wrong regardless of deeply held religious beliefs or deeply held biases and regardless of whether a man or woman is the target.

I mean sure, those who support such bigotry may not have a problem with this, but I suspect that this type of discrimination bothers them more than a Jew not wanting to sit next to a woman on a plane.

[Argus]

I'm going by the assumption that there's a business reason for this, ie. more people would appreciate this service than be offended by it, hence a net plus for business. But if not, then ... it still is their choice.

I don't think that's true. I don't think they're trying to be accommodating because more people would appreciate the service. These cultist type Jews are a minority, something like 10% in Israel, far, far less elsewhere. And they, for the most part, have no money. They mostly don't work. They're uneducated, unskilled religious fanatics. So they're not likely to be flying around very much.

I think most people don't realize just how backwards these people really are. http://nypost.com/2015/07/26/ex-hasids-death-bares-anguish-of-leaving-ultra-orthodox-world/

[Michael Hardner]

Then why ARE they accommodating them?

[Guest]

Anything for a quiet life...

[Argus]

Then why ARE they accommodating them?

Because they don't want to be accused of being mean and nasty to Jews.

[msj]

Because they don't want to be accused of being mean and nasty to Jews.

Yep.

This shows nicely the religious circular logic of freedom/persecution:

The Jews can be hateful, insulting and discriminatory against women because, religion.

Religious freedom is a fundamental right protected under various constitutions that religious people think trumps equal rights for women (when such rights are included in the constitution).

So to tell these Jews "no our airline will not accommodate your bigoted ideas" comes across as religious persecution because the big bad business isn't allowing the poor religious people to exercise their religious beliefs.

Therefore these people cry out "persecuted."

[The_Squid]

Yep.

This shows nicely the religious circular logic of freedom/persecution:

The Jews can be hateful, insulting and discriminatory against women because, religion.

Religious freedom is a fundamental right protected under various constitutions that religious people think trumps equal rights for women (when such rights are included in the constitution).

So to tell these Jews "no our airline will not accommodate your bigoted ideas" comes across as religious persecution because the big bad business isn't allowing the poor religious people to exercise their religious beliefs.

Therefore these people cry out "persecuted."

yes, it's sick!

[Michael Hardner]

Because they don't want to be accused of being mean and nasty to Jews.

Accused by whom ? I think the general public could well backlash if women are indeed being put out by these practices. In any case, managing the reputation of your brand is indeed a business decision and as such I think they can do as they like, within the legal bounds they have, and accommodate religious requests with some careful planning along the lines we discussed above.

[Argus]

Accused by whom ? I think the general public could well backlash if women are indeed being put out by these practices.

The general public would generally only hear, most of them, that the airline threw some Jews off the plane because they made a 'polite request' to have their religious views accommodated.

And I wonder if we, as a society shouldn't, in fact, be deliberately trying to make life more difficult for these religious crazies, rather than accommodating them. If the Post story is at all true, for example, these Hasidim are not properly educating children. I thought even home schooled kids were required to learn a regular curriculum...

[Michael Hardner]

The general public would generally only hear, most of them, that the airline threw some Jews off the plane because they made a 'polite request' to have their religious views accommodated.

How so ? Certainly the OP didn't take that viewpoint ? Do you think that the media favours religious accommodation ? If anything, the media over-covers conflict - conflict sells.

[GostHacked]

Accused by whom ? I think the general public could well backlash if women are indeed being put out by these practices. In any case, managing the reputation of your brand is indeed a business decision and as such I think they can do as they like, within the legal bounds they have, and accommodate religious requests with some careful planning along the lines we discussed above.

Dunno Mike, that might be interpreted as anti-semitism.

[Michael Hardner]

Dunno Mike, that might be interpreted as anti-semitism.

It might, but it might not... there's not as clear a choice for the airline if they're trying to not get into trouble.

[kimmy]

Another one of these incidents, this time in Canada:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/porter-airlines-seat-change-may-have-been-sparked-by-religious-accommodation-says-passenger-1.3171114

-k

[Michael Hardner]

Another one of these incidents, this time in Canada:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/porter-airlines-seat-change-may-have-been-sparked-by-religious-accommodation-says-passenger-1.3171114

-k

So the bent of that article is clearly against accommodating the request, which to my point with Argus indicates that the airlines have a more difficult choice than merely accepting this requests. And, in any case, the choices all represent business decisions that they can/should be able to make.

[Michael Hardner]

The general public would generally only hear, most of them, that the airline threw some Jews off the plane because they made a 'polite request' to have their religious views accommodated.

Argus' suggestion seems to have been disproven given the #1 headline on CBC news site now:

UPDATED Airline passenger suspects she was asked to change seats because she's a woman

http://www.cbc.ca/news

It's pretty clear to me that the airlines are trying to accommodate these things quietly, to play the middle ground and avoid controversy.

[bush_cheney2004]

This woman is miffed because other passengers were willing to change their seat instead of raging for her cause.

[The_Squid]

This woman is miffed because other passengers were willing to change their seat instead of raging for her cause.

She certainly sounds like she was "in a rage"...

Flynn said she might have been willing to accommodate the man had he spoken to her directly and politely asked her to switch seats.

[msj]

It's pretty clear to me that the airlines are trying to accommodate these things quietly, to play the middle ground and avoid controversy.

Of course they are! Because we are taught to tolerate and respect religious people because, well, I don't exactly know why.

Look, if I go on the airplane and refuse to sit down next to an Asian or black person then I am clearly a racist.

Do it but claim that my religion forbids me to sit next to these people and suddenly there is doubt (thankfully not much when it is a racial minority).

Now, substitute woman in for Asian or black and you get the same bigotry and discrimination.

Somehow, people tolerate this garbage.

The fact that someone claims to believe in an invisible being seems to be enough to justify this bigotry.

Believing in religious ideas is just believing in ideas with nothing to substantiate them.

Faith is nothing more than belief without evidence.

Yet we are expected to tolerate such ideas and actions even though they are unworthy or respect.

[Bryan]

She certainly sounds like she was "in a rage"...

She's so outraged that she went to the media over it.

[WestCoastRunner]

I don't have a problem with this man requesting to be seated beside another man. However, I do have a problem with the flight attendant asking the woman to move to accommodate him.

If he has a problem the airline shouldn't impose his seating restrictions on her. It makes good business sense to accommodate both of them but why would they be more interested in accommodating his request and causing her to move? Because she was female? This is where the airline loses in their customer service.

[WestCoastRunner]

She's so outraged that she went to the media over it.

She should be outraged. She bought her ticket and selected a seat. Why should she have to change it. It just doesn't make good business sense to ask her to move. Move the Jewish man, not her. Edited July 30, 2015 by WestCoastRunner

[kimmy]

She's so outraged that she went to the media over it.

Why not? When people are upset by a business, going to the media has been a remedy for many years. I am quite sure that reporters with cameramen have been showing up at businesses to discuss customer complaints for longer than I've been alive. What makes this any different?

-k

[The_Squid]

Why not? When people are upset by a business, going to the media has been a remedy for many years. I am quite sure that reporters with cameramen have been showing up at businesses to discuss customer complaints for longer than I've been alive. What makes this any different?

-k

Because it's a "raging woman" apparently.... Can't have those women running to the media when they have a complaint about a business, now can we...?

[WestCoastRunner]

Because it's a "raging woman" apparently.... Can't have those women running to the media when they have a complaint about a business, now can we...?

We will soon hear that she is a SJW.