First female to pilot F-35

[Hal 9000]

"you people" ? Why do you need to put me in some kind of group ? It seems pretty commonplace to celebrate 'firsts', so why don't you put yourself in some group ?

I don't see why it's twisted to mark firsts in this way. It actually is pretty common to do that. Maybe if you recognize that fact, you can start to see why your response might seem odd to a mainstream person, like perhaps you're the one with an 'agenda'.

I put you in the group of people who have been manipulated by a feminist group doing their best to stay relevant.

This woman is not the first woman to fly a plane, she's not the first to fly a jet fighter, she's not even the first to lead a squadron. She is the first to fly a certain aircraft - that's it! Im as happy for her as i would be for the first man to fly the plane. But, as I said, that's not good enough, I am required from you people to give her extra props - right?

Shame on you people for demeaning this woman.

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bronie

A male fan of the series, "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic."

"Dude, are you a member of the herd?"

"Yeah, I'm a Bronie"
Fist-bumps are exchanged and both say; "Bro-hoof"

For those following at home, it seems a Bronie is a guy who likes the My Little Pony cartoons. It seems that the argument is "if we celebrate social landmarks, why don't we just celebrate everything no matter how much people do/should care ?"

I guess the answer is "who knows ?". Maybe people will be excited about such things some day, but I doubt it. In the meantime, the things that matter to people will/should be celebrated.

[Michael Hardner]

I put you in the group of people who have been manipulated by a feminist group doing their best to stay relevant.

Great. And seeing as how this is a mainstream news story, that seems to be widely noted and even celebrated as a landmark I feel comfortable putting you in the group of people that I would label "fringe, threatened by women's progress for reasons unknown"

This woman is not the first woman to fly a plane, she's not the first to fly a jet fighter, she's not even the first to lead a squadron. She is the first to fly a certain aircraft - that's it!

Oh ok. So when the first woman flew a jet fighter, you put a banner up and released balloons right ?

Im as happy for her ...

Right, which is why you're raising a fuss over this celebration. Sorry, I don't believe it.

[Hal 9000]

Lt. Col. Christine Mau:

"But Mau says gender makes no difference in flying combat aircraft, something women have done in the U.S. military for more than two decades.

"The plane doesn't know or care about your gender as a pilot, nor do the ground troops who need your support. You just have to perform. That's all anyone cares about when you're up there -- that you can do your job, and that you do it exceptionally well," she said in the Air Force statement."

[Hal 9000]

Great. And seeing as how this is a mainstream news story, that seems to be widely noted and even celebrated as a landmark I feel comfortable putting you in the group of people that I would label "fringe, threatened by women's progress for reasons unknown"

Oh ok. So when the first woman flew a jet fighter, you put a banner up and released balloons right ?

Right, which is why you're raising a fuss over this celebration. Sorry, I don't believe it.

Because I feel that women pilots are a natural thing, you twist that to pretend that I'm threatened - wow dude, have another drink of kool-aid.

[Michael Hardner]

As I say, your position does not fly with me so to speak. Even the mainstream is toasting this, so as a feminist I would expect you to as well ?

[Big Guy]

BTW - Who was the first black man to fly an F-35?

[Smallc]

As I say, your position does not fly with me so to speak. Even the mainstream is toasting this, so as a feminist I would expect you to as well ?

But there's nothing to toast. Good for her. Okay, now what?

[Michael Hardner]

Very good point BG - while we celebrated people like Jackie Robinson and Barack Obama, after while the 'first' isn't significant

[Hal 9000]

Very good point BG - while we celebrated people like Jackie Robinson and Barack Obama, after while the 'first' isn't significant

And when is that exactly?

[Michael Hardner]

And when is that exactly?

You have to read between the headlines, and take a wider view of what the public's take on these things is. It's very difficult to do so, though. Even figuring out the public response to policy items isn't easy. Some things just fade from view after awhile, and at some point we'll all agree that certain things are as they are.

[Hal 9000]

You have to read between the headlines, and take a wider view of what the public's take on these things is. It's very difficult to do so, though. Even figuring out the public response to policy items isn't easy. Some things just fade from view after awhile, and at some point we'll all agree that certain things are as they are.

When does the first (black, white, jew, muslim, woman, midget, gay etc.) ...whatever, become insignificant?

You started this line of conversation, I think you should explain.

[Michael Hardner]

When does the first (black, white, jew, muslim, woman, midget, gay etc.) ...whatever, become insignificant?

You started this line of conversation, I think you should explain.

I think I already answered that above. There will be a point at which we agree that it's insignificant. Obviously, we're not there yet.

[Hal 9000]

I think I already answered that above. There will be a point at which we agree that it's insignificant. Obviously, we're not there yet.

No you haven't! So, I will. The first becomes insignificant when (and by people who) consider parties to already be equal. Why has there been articles about the first Aussie to fly that jet, Israeli, Dane, Brit - you name it - to no (or very little) public fanefare? Easy, they are considered by everyone as equals. I, and many of us here consider women as equal in the realm of flight and are therefore not as impressed as those of you who are manipulated by the feminist movement that wants to hold women's suffrage in perpetuity.

When you start to consider women as equals, you too will be less impressed with their "firsts".

[Wilber]

BTW - Who was the first black man to fly an F-35?

Black men have been serving in combat roles since WW2. Well over a hundred years if you include the Civil War. If women had been doing the same, I doubt we would be speaking about this now. The US restriction on females serving in combat roles was only lifted in 2013 and is still ongoing. They are still barred from some units like special forces, although that is also supposed to be changing. The British still do not allow females in combat roles and other countries allow limited access. This is not old news and females are not yet equal.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Wilber

[Michael Hardner]

The first becomes insignificant when (and by people who) consider parties to already be equal.

Maybe. So maybe the public doesn't consider women to have reached quality yet ? I don't think your principle applies to me. I consider them to be equal, but I still consider this event significant.

Why has there been articles about the first Aussie to fly that jet, Israeli, Dane, Brit - you name it - to no (or very little) public fanefare? Easy, they are considered by everyone as equals.

I don't know what "consider by everyone to be equals" means though, in your mind. Whether you consider that they should have equal rights, or whether they have achieved absolute equality of opportunity ?

I, and many of us here consider women as equal in the realm of flight and are therefore not as impressed as those of you who are manipulated by the feminist movement that wants to hold women's suffrage in perpetuity.

You don't need to paint me as brainwashed in this argument, unless you have very little else to argue with. I'm not doing that to you.

[Michael Hardner]

Really there are a few questions here: why do people care ? Why do you or I care ? Why should we care ?

[cybercoma]

Because gender/sex shouldn't matter.

Then why does it? Why did it take so long?

[cybercoma]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bronie

For those following at home, it seems a Bronie is a guy who likes the My Little Pony cartoons. It seems that the argument is "if we celebrate social landmarks, why don't we just celebrate everything no matter how much people do/should care ?"

I guess the answer is "who knows ?". Maybe people will be excited about such things some day, but I doubt it. In the meantime, the things that matter to people will/should be celebrated.

Is someone trying to argue that watching My Little Pony is and equivalent milestone to flying an F-35?

[Michael Hardner]

I really don't know.... I answer the questions as best I can but I don't know where these questions are supposed to lead

[On Guard for Thee]

I suspect these questions, comments may arise from attitudes which are a little hesitant about women pushing back those gender barriers, contrary to how they may try to say otherwise.

[Smallc]

I suspect these questions, comments may arise from attitudes which are a little hesitant about women pushing back those gender barriers, contrary to how they may try to say otherwise.

I suspect you're imagining things.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Smallc

[Hal 9000]

Maybe. So maybe the public doesn't consider women to have reached quality yet ? I don't think your principle applies to me. I consider them to be equal, but I still consider this event significant.

I don't know what "consider by everyone to be equals" means though, in your mind. Whether you consider that they should have equal rights, or whether they have achieved absolute equality of opportunity ?

You don't need to paint me as brainwashed in this argument, unless you have very little else to argue with. I'm not doing that to you.

It seems that the only people who care about the gender of this pilot are you people on the left - All the "big mean" righties don't seem to care.

just as an experiment, Instead of saying first woman to fly an F-35, exchange the word woman with Isreali or Aussie, and see how patronizing your posts sound. When I read all these posts from you people, all I can think of is a lack of respect you guys have for this woman. She's a Lt. Colonel, she doesn't need your condescension.

[WestCoastRunner]

I, and many of us here consider women as equal in the realm of flight and are therefore not as impressed as those of you who are manipulated by the feminist movement that wants to hold women's suffrage in perpetuity.

When you start to consider women as equals, you too will be less impressed with their "firsts".

The problem is that women are not treated as equals in many situations which is why feminism is still alive and why women continue to fight for equal rights.

As far as being manipulated by the feminist movement, you make it sound like being a feminist is akin to belonging to a cult. Do you think feminism is a cult? Do you know what feminism means?

[Hal 9000]

The problem is that women are not treated as equals in many situations which is why feminism is still alive and why women continue to fight for equal rights.

As far as being manipulated by the feminist movement, you make it sound like being a feminist is akin to belonging to a cult. Do you think feminism is a cult? Do you know what feminism means?

Honestly, Ive never really considered feminism a "cult" before, but now that you mention it, feminism does have all the hallmarks of a cult.