First female to pilot F-35

[Michael Hardner]

This is because you fail to understand a position on gender issues outside of your traditionalist-feminist false dichotomy. So if they don't agree with you they must be misogynists!

I didn't call anybody such names. Why are you labeling me a feminist now ? Do you believe in equal rights for women ?

[On Guard for Thee]

If you are anorexic then you are less likely to be obese. Obesity = bad. Therefore, anorexia = good?

It seems once again your formula approach does not serve you well. Otherwise you wouldnt conclude anorexia is good.

[Wilber]

I disagree with this portrayal of the past. It denies female agency in the way society was shaped, ignores male disposability, etc. Here is a question, if it was such a male dominated society with men having all this privilege, why where men doing the majority of dying in the wars?

Because men made the rules and controlled the money. Primogeniture and all that stuff. Women didn't even get the vote until the 20th century. Perhaps you should learn a little about the past.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/women-and-the-law/

The same time having a vagina became an accomplishment I guess.

So Cybercoma was right, you were putting watching My Little Pony on the same level as flying a F-35. What does that say about anything you have done?

Wow, before my grandparents were born, discrimination happened, therefore we can somehow ignore all male issues. Progressive logic!

Who said anything about ignoring male issues. Stop whining, what discrimination have you suffered?

Edited May 10, 2015 by Wilber

[Hal 9000]

I didn't call anybody such names. Why are you labeling me a feminist now ? Do you believe in equal rights for women ?

Have you heard even one person suggest that this woman should not be flying this aircraft?

[Hal 9000]

Because they made the rules and controlled the money. Primogeniture and all that stuff. Women didn't even get the vote until the 20th century.

Who said anything about ignoring male issues. Don't whine.

What discrimination have you suffered?

Everyone suffers discrimination, even white men, sometimes especially white males.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Hal 9000

[Michael Hardner]

Have you heard even one person suggest that this woman should not be flying this aircraft?

No ?

[Wilber]

Everyone suffers discrimination, even white men, sometimes especially white males.

Poor baby. When in history did white men ever suffer the same kind of discrimination as white women?

[Hal 9000]

Poor baby. When in history did white men ever suffer the same kind of discrimination as white women?

I don't care about history too much, but i'm white and have been discriminated against for being white, and for being a man. Ive been discriminated against as a teenager, now as someone who is older.

just saying', we're all discriminated against.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Hal 9000

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't care about history too much, but i'm white and have been discriminated against for being white, and for being a man. Ive been discriminated against as a teenager, now as someone who is older.

just saying', we're all discriminated against.

Then you should applaud any and every indication of the diminishment of discrimination.

[Wilber]

I don't care about history too much, but i'm white and have been discriminated against for being white, and for being a man. Ive been discriminated against as a teenager, now as someone who is older.

just saying', we're all discriminated against.

Yup, if you don't like what history tells you, just pretend it never happened. Easy.

[Hal 9000]

Yup, if you don't like what history tells you, just pretend it never happened. Easy.

It's not that at all. How long do we have to wait before recognizing an achievement for what it is, without adding "for a woman" or "for women's rights".

"I'm proud of my daughter for getting a drivers licence" sounds fine. "I'm proud of my daughter for getting a drivers license, because she's a woman and women couldn't vote 100 years ago" sounds kinda weird.

[Wilber]

It's not that at all. How long do we have to wait before recognizing an achievement for what it is, without adding "for a woman" or "for women's rights".

"I'm proud of my daughter for getting a drivers licence" sounds fine. "I'm proud of my daughter for getting a drivers license, because she's a woman and women couldn't vote 100 years ago" sounds kinda weird.

Far as I know, Canadian women could always get a drivers license so why are you proud?

[Bonam]

Far as I know, Canadian women could always get a drivers license so why are you proud?

Cause most parents are proud when their kid achieves various milestones in life, such as graduating from school, getting a driver's license, getting a job, etc?

[Wilber]

Cause most parents are proud when their kid achieves various milestones in life, such as graduating from school, getting a driver's license, getting a job, etc?

Sure but that's not the same as being the first to do it.

[-1=e^ipi]

Like a specific group that was oppressed in a particular situation in a place or time ?

I still don't understand what you want. You want me to state a group of people that were oppressed in a particular situation in a place or time? Okay. Black people in the US South for most of the past 200 years.

Insult.

Yet you still refuse to accept the existence of my position and claim it is a silly pendantic cartwheel.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that a popular celebration of a milestone upsets you. That's why you bring up silly "everything is everything" type arguments.

Again, you refuse to acknowledge the existence of my position because it doesn't fit with your predetermined set of possible positions with respect to gender issues. So you try to associate me with the traditionalist position on the basis that I don't hold your position.

Do you believe in equal rights for women ?

Yes. But that isn't the only definition of feminism. Feminism can mean anything from gender egalitarianism to misandric hate ideology; so if you are a gender egalitarian, then why not just identify as a gender egalitarian? Furthermore, if you did support gender egalitarianism as much as me you would reject the label of feminism on the basis that it isn't gender neutral alone.

[-1=e^ipi]

Why are you labeling me a feminist now ?

Also, if you read what I wrote, I didn't label you as a feminist. I said that you have a perception of a traditionalist-feminist false dichotomy of possible positions what can take with respect to gender/sex issues.

[-1=e^ipi]

It seems once again your formula approach does not serve you well. Otherwise you wouldnt conclude anorexia is good.

Yeah, I probably need to adopt the large amounts of cognitive dissonance required for the 'progressive' mindset. Internal consistency is such a hassle anyway... *sarcasm*

Women didn't even get the vote until the 20th century. Perhaps you should learn a little about the past.

Perhaps you should learn that the past did not begin in the 20th century. Men only got the vote about a century before women did. Before that, almost everyone didn't have rights, male or female.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_suffrage

"The First French Republic was the first nation that adopted universal male suffrage in 1792; it was the first national system that abolished all property requirements as a prerequisite for allowing men to register and vote. Greece recognized full male suffrage in 1829 (although it excluded the unemployed until 1877), and France and Switzerland have continuously done so since the 1848 Revolution (for resident male citizens). Upon independence in the 19th century, several Latin American countries and Liberia in Africa initially extended suffrage to all adult males, but subsequently restricted it based on property requirements. The German Empire implemented full male suffrage in 1871. The United States theoretically adopted full male suffrage with the Fifteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution in 1870, but this was not practically implemented in the South until the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

In 1893 New Zealand became the first nation in the world to grant universal, male and female adult suffrage.^[1] In most countries, full universal suffrage followed about a generation after full male suffrage. Notable exceptions in Europe were France, where women could not vote until 1944, Greece (1952), and Switzerland (1971 in federal elections and 1990 in all cantonal elections). It is worth noting that countries that took a long time to adopt women's suffrage were often actually pioneers in granting universal male suffrage."

If you look at the historical context, the 'justification' that was used by both men and women for women not having the vote in western countries during the century during which men had the vote but women didn't was that the ability to vote was given due to the inability to be drafted. In many cases the vote and other male 'privileges' were used as incentives to get men willing to go die in wars. For much of this time period the majority of women didn't not want the vote. If you look at old newspapers from 100+ years ago you will see that women opposed to female suffrage referred to the draft as one of their main reasons against it. I don't agree with this position, but I'm just saying that the past was more complicated than this naive narrative of men = privileged, women = oppressed since the dawn of time.

So Cybercoma was right, you were putting watching My Little Pony on the same level as flying a F-35. What does that say about anything you have done?

No, I'm not. To me the gender/sex of the individual makes no difference if the individual is flying an F-35 or if the individual is watching My Little Pony. The gender/sex makes no difference, not the activity.

Stop whining

Oh look, attempts at using gender conditioning to control my behaviour. Should I also 'man up' and 'grow balls' as well? *sarcasm*

what discrimination have you suffered?

Quite a bit, actually, but that isn't relevant to this thread.

[-1=e^ipi]

Poor baby. When in history did white men ever suffer the same kind of discrimination as white women?

Never. They face different kinds of discrimination, a lot of which is attributed to different gender roles. Facing different discrimination doesn't say which group of people faces more discrimination though.

[Michael Hardner]

I still don't understand what you want. You want me to state a group of people that were oppressed in a particular situation in a place or time? Okay. Black people in the US South for most of the past 200 years.

Ok. So do you celebrate achievements that Black people have made towards equality ?

Again, you refuse to acknowledge the existence of my position because it doesn't fit with your predetermined set of possible positions with respect to gender issues. So you try to associate me with the traditionalist position on the basis that I don't hold your position.

No, I acknowledge your position but opposing the celebration of milestones doesn't align with any position, traditionalist or otherwise.

Yes. But that isn't the only definition of feminism.

No, but it's a broad and general definition of Feminism. I don't care what it *can* mean. It can mean anything, and you can argue with that imagined meaning.

[-1=e^ipi]

Ok. So do you celebrate achievements that Black people have made towards equality ?

What do you mean by celebrate? Do I hold an annual party in honour of past achievements? No.

No, I acknowledge your position but opposing the celebration of milestones doesn't align with any position, traditionalist or otherwise.

Ah the irony. I'm not 'opposing' the 'celebration', I just think that people should be treated equally based on gender/sex and the gender/sex of the pilot is irrelevant.

No, but it's a broad and general definition of Feminism.

I disagree. The 'dictionary' definition does not accurately reflect mainstream feminism.

[WestCoastRunner]

I don't care about history too much, but i'm white and have been discriminated against for being white, and for being a man. Ive been discriminated against as a teenager, now as someone who is older.

just saying', we're all discriminated against.

And you have also said that women have many perks and I kept asking for this info because it would be great for my and my daughters to know about! But alas, no information was forthcoming.

[WestCoastRunner]

Kathryn bigelow was the first female to win Oscar for best director, even beating out her ex. I believe this is an event that should be given a shout out too.

Is this not another great accomplishment that should be recognized in the mainstream media (which it was).

The movie was 'hurt locker'. Clearly a film directed for men.

Edited May 10, 2015 by WestCoastRunner

[Hal 9000]

Hurt locker was ok, but I don't put too much credence into what the "academy" does. The academy seems to feel that they will manipulate society with their choices. Halle Barry and Denzel won when blacks needed to win, Michael Moore, Sean Penn for Milk, anyone who goes "half retard". Academy awards can be predicted by knowing what hollywood deems society needs at that particular moment.

Hurt Locker was decent, but cliche and predictable. Female director and a left leaning plot = Victory for women's rights. To be fair, Avatar was a dreadful retelling of Dances with wolves, ferngully, last samurai and many others. Inglorious Basterds was not Tarantino's best work either. Up in the air could've stole the award, but that year was Bigelow's year - good on her, but the academy was never gonna let her lose.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Hal 9000

[WestCoastRunner]

Hurt locker was ok, but I don't put too much credence into what the "academy" does. The academy seems to feel that they will manipulate society with their choices. Halle Barry and Denzel won when blacks needed to win, Michael Moore, Sean Penn for Milk, anyone who goes "half retard". Academy awards can be predicted by knowing what hollywood deems society needs at that particular moment.

Hurt Locker was decent, but cliche and predictable. Female director and a left leaning plot = Victory for women's rights. To be fair, Avatar was a dreadful retelling of Dances with wolves, ferngully, last samurai and many others. Inglorious Basterds was not Tarantino's best work either. Up in the air could've stole the award, but that year was Bigelow's year - good on her, but the academy was never gonna let her lose.

Exactly, a perfectly simple explanation why a woman won the oscar for 'best director'. Let's diminish the rewards.

[Hal 9000]

Exactly, a perfectly simple explanation why a woman won the oscar for 'best director'. Let's diminish the rewards.

Yes, the Oscars are all tainted. Nothing is won, it's all just given. It's politics...worse than figure skating.