Keepitsimple Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 This Duffy business is having a subtle but important influence on the campaign by debasing the Conservative brand. Few in the general public have the time to explore the complexities of this situation, what they come away with is a sense of self-inflicted scandal and leadership found lacking by allowing such a situation to develop. There's a flip side to all this. There's what I call the "Ford" effect. The Toronto Star was so over-the-top against Rob Ford in the mayoralty race that his support actually went up and he won in a landslide! There comes a point of diminishing returns where people start to catch on - that the anti-Harper crowd is over-playing their hand with political opportunism. The Conservative core base is rock solid - so garnering just 3 or 4 extra votes out of 100 might be all they need to get another majority. The Ford effect. Quote Back to Basics
Mighty AC Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 The Ford effect. I love it! You're saying, our guy is corrupt with a bad record, but because you guys are telling us that we will vote for him anyway. lmao! We will support bad government to spite the other side! Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Argus Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 I love it! You're saying, our guy is corrupt with a bad record, but because you guys are telling us that we will vote for him anyway. lmao! We will support bad government to spite the other side! More like we'll support it BECAUSE of the other side, which is infinitely worse. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Mighty AC Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 More like we'll support it BECAUSE of the other side, which is infinitely worse. At least Harper becoming the new Mulroney is once again creating conservative PR support. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
ReeferMadness Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Just when all of the Conservative mini-spin doctors around here were heaving a sigh of relief because Wright's testimony is over, just when they think they can get back to slagging the opposition (because their guy has no story to tell), along comes Harper's lawyer. And he places the entire mess squarely at the feet of the PM. “I was immediately taken aback by the prime minister’s decision that if you simply owned $4,000 in real property, that made you a resident. To me, both legally and practically, it seemed untenable,” said Perrin, Read that. The PM decided that if you owned $4,000 worth of property, you are a resident. So, since Duffy owned property in PEI, the PM deemed Duffy a resident and qualified to sit as senator. Now you might ask, wtf is the PM doing deciding the eligibility rules for the senate? That would be an excellent question in itself. But the real relevance of this is that it shows why Duffy was outraged at having to repay his expenses. why he asked the Conservative Party to do it for him. Since the PM is now squarely implicated in this mess, it also explains why Wright was so desperate for the mess to go away, he dug into his own pocket to pay off a sitting senator. So, PM makes a politically motivated and calculated decision to support getting his appointed hacks into the senate. The decision backfires when the auditors come and and look at the PM's idiotic assessment. The PMO decides Duffy should wear it and tries to stuff him under the bus but anyone who's ever seen a picture of him knows that won't work. So Wright throws his body at Duffy to try to make him go away but gets stuck under the bus himself. In doing so, he implicates the entire PMO, including the PM himself. Now, the question is why would anyone cast a ballot for Stephen Harper, who obviously has zero integrity? He claimed to want to fix the senate but was caught manipulating the rules. Instead of taking accountability, he let everyone beneath him take the fall. And now he seems to be decidedly less than truthful about the whole affair. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/08/20/lawyer-surprised-by-harpers-skimpy-criteria-for-senate-residency.html Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
waldo Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 If the media uses their same doggedness on Mac Harb as they have on Duffy, I think they'd find some very juicy morsels. Harb's residence that he used as his primary residence to claim expenses? Well, he only owned half a percent of the mortgage. The other 99.5% was held by the female Ambassador from Brunei. Apparently, the house was almost entirely vacant. Just sayin...... don't count on it any time soon... it will be toooooo late to counter the impact from l'affaire Duffy: "With suspended Sen. Mike Duffy’s criminal trial taking much longer than expected, the trial of former senator Mac Harb has been postponed into the new year, his lawyer says." ... apparently... it's the same prosecutor's handling both trials. . Quote
Keepitsimple Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) But the real relevance of this is that it shows why Duffy was outraged at having to repay his expenses. why he asked the Conservative Party to do it for him. Since the PM is now squarely implicated in this mess, it also explains why Wright was so desperate for the mess to go away, he dug into his own pocket to pay off a sitting senator. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/08/20/lawyer-surprised-by-harpers-skimpy-criteria-for-senate-residency.html But there's where your rant falls off the rails. Whether Duffy was deemed the "Senator from PEI" or not - he was claiming expenses that he did not incur. That's what Harper said was wrong. That's what he told Duffy and that's why he handed the ball to Wright to fix it. As for the residency rules - there's no doubt they need a complete makeover. Duffy for example was born in PEI and lived there well into his 20's, if not 30's. He considers himself an Islander. Should someone like that be considered for a PEI Senate seat? Who knows - why not though? And then how about the Senator who is appointed to the Senate for a province and then for personal reasons, decides to move to another province - or to Ottawa? Do they have to give up their Senate seat? The Duffy residence issue is minor and almost irrelevant - at issue is claiming all those expenses that he never incurred. Edited August 20, 2015 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
Topaz Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Posted August 20, 2015 Just wait until the trial comes back after the election and there may be new people called by Duffy's lawyer, like Novak. The only way Harper could clear his name is by taking the stand, IF he has nothing to hide. After reading the blog of the trial going on, the kids in the PMO were playing many games and many of them were political to save the leader and the party of looking foolish and untrustworthy. Quote
Smallc Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Just wait until the trial comes back after the election No one will care then, and if they do, it's too later for them to. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) But there's where your rant falls off the rails. Whether Duffy was deemed the "Senator from PEI" or not - he was claiming expenses that he did not incur. That's what Harper said was wrong. That's what he told Duffy and that's why he handed the ball to Wright to fix it. Sorry, man but you're wrong. He incurred the expenses but the crown is saying that they were not eligible because (in large part) he was not a resident of PEI. Maybe Duffy can be forgiven for being confused about that because the PM personally interpreted the rules in such a way that Duffy would be eligible. The question is why is the PM trying to determine eligibility rules for senate residency? Is this somewhere in his accountability? No. The reason is that he is a meddling micromanager. And we are expected to then believe that this meddling micromanager was somehow completely unaware when his office orchestrated a conspiracy to cover up the malfeasance. His total ineligible expenses where $154K. So the interesting question is why was Nigel's sudden fit of generosity capped at only $90K? Well, maybe the answer is here: Grenon also broke out the claims the Crown alleges Duffy was not entitled to, including claims related to living in Ottawa, or the National Capital Region (NCR), that came to $89,520. There's your answer. The $90K that Nigel paid him was to cover the expenses that were ineligible because he wasn't a resident of PEI. He thought he was because Harper told him so. And that's why this whole thing stinks. Edited August 20, 2015 by ReeferMadness Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 If rules were needed for residency and if the PMO had any integrity, I'm sure that a number of government agencies (Canada Revenue Agency and Immigration come to mind) already have rules that apply to us ordinary peons. So why is the PM coming up with a residency requirement that wouldn't pass any test anywhere else? Because his sense of integrity is overwhelmed by political expediency. And that's that guy you're voting for. Feel good about it. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Don't like the tax rates in your province? No problem. Just buy a $4000 chunk of property somewhere else and tell CRA you're a resident of another province. If CRA questions you, tell them the PM said that's the test of residency. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smallc Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 If CRA questions you, tell them the PM said that's the test of residency. There was a court case in my community a few years ago. There was tie vote for mayor, and one of the votes was said to be ineligible because of living somewhere else. When the case was heard, evidence was provided of property ownership and of not having voted in the election at the place where they normally lived. The case was thrown out, as it was deemed that the persons vote was eligible, so, it seems that's already the standard. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Wow. So someone living in, say, China can buy 4 grand worth of property and tell Immigration they are a resident of Canada? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smallc Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Wow. So someone living in, say, China can buy 4 grand worth of property and tell Immigration they are a resident of Canada? Yeah, whatever. Quote
Argus Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 At least Harper becoming the new Mulroney is once again creating conservative PR support. Gee, and to hear some of you Lefties here I'd have thought he was to the right of Atilla the Hun and Hitler. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Mighty AC Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Gee, and to hear some of you Lefties here I'd have thought he was to the right of Atilla the Hun and Hitler. He's not Mulroney, ideologically...just similar in ethics and bloated, arrogant, misguided government. Apparently, Brian's waning moments at the helm are what convinced a little Stevie to get involved in the Reform movement. Now, all grown up, Harper's dictatorial, corrupt rule has rekindled the Reform and even a call for PR from the right...while their side (more or less) is still in power. ouch. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Argus Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 He's not Mulroney, ideologically...just similar in ethics and bloated, arrogant, misguided government. Apparently, Brian's waning moments at the helm are what convinced a little Stevie to get involved in the Reform movement. Now, all grown up, Harper's dictatorial, corrupt rule has rekindled the Reform and even a call for PR from the right...while their side (more or less) is still in power. ouch. You know you write like some escapee from a 1950s marxist newspaper? "The evil running dog imperialist Stephen Harper!" Dictatorial, huh? If he was dictatorial you'd be dead now. Stop using stupid hyperbole. It makes all your arguments sound ridiculous. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Mighty AC Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) You know you write like some escapee from a 1950s marxist newspaper? "The evil running dog imperialist Stephen Harper!" Dictatorial, huh? If he was dictatorial you'd be dead now. Stop using stupid hyperbole. It makes all your arguments sound ridiculous. His former MPs use the phrase dictatorial to describe his control of the party. His own MPs had to request that the speaker acknowledge their right to speak in the house even when Harper didn't authorize it. CPC MPs are required to attend pre-committee meetings to get their talking points and be told how to speak and vote. CPC MPs are free to vote however they'd like though going against the set government position means possible ejection from caucus, the loss of a position and even vindictive attacks on your riding. Ask former CPC member Bill Casey. Your fantasy posts about how this government operates, when you previously acknowledged Harper's love for and abuses of power, make you sound ridiculous. By all means be conservative and ideologically opposed to progressive ideas, but don't pretend Harper's government has been democratic, principled or good managers of our money. Edited August 20, 2015 by Mighty AC Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Topaz Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Posted August 21, 2015 Hers's a video of Harper talking about the payment and I want you to listen to what Harper says about the payment..around 46 seconds into the tape and what u think Harper means about what is he saying.... don't want to jump to conclusion. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/08/20/gilles-guibord-conservative-candidate-fired_n_8018090.html?utm_hp_ref=tw Quote
PIK Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 This trial is now a joke. All this time I thought duffy was on trial. The judge is giving duffys lawyer way to much leeway. And did the RCMP screw up. Now as we have learned , duffy never received any money from wright, wright sent it to the crown. All these emails are being put in just to go after harper , who is not on trial. It seems the only thing duffy should be on trial was the Donahue affair, and as I have said he will never testify, he will probably de dead in 6 months. This is all about politics and if harb trials is put off till after the election, that just proves it. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Argus Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 His former MPs use the phrase dictatorial to describe his control of the party. His own MPs had to request that the speaker acknowledge their right to speak in the house even when Harper didn't authorize it. CPC MPs are required to attend pre-committee meetings to get their talking points and be told how to speak and vote. CPC MPs are free to vote however they'd like though going against the set government position means possible ejection from caucus, the loss of a position and even vindictive attacks on your riding. Ask former CPC member Bill Casey. And the other parties operate in exactly the same fashion or worse. So? Your fantasy posts about how this government operates, when you previously acknowledged Harper's love for and abuses of power, Cite please? By all means be conservative and ideologically opposed to progressive ideas, I'm not ideologically opposed to progressive ideas, I'm intellectually opposed to dumb ideas. There's a difference. but don't pretend Harper's government has been democratic, principled or good managers of our money. They've been decent managers of our money, and as principles, they've got as many as the opposition, which is to say, principles mostly fall behind political expediency in most situations. Do you actually think the other parties leaders would be any different? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 Well from what we've heard so far, it would certainly be interesting to hear from Novak under oath, if not even Harper. And I bet Teneycke wishes he hadn't made his "unfathomable" comment. Legally Harper may not yet be threatened, but politically, he is hurting. Quote
Topaz Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Posted August 21, 2015 I've been following the CBC blog on the trial, and what I'm getting from it was, the PM create this mess by allowing Duffy to be a senator by HIS rule or how Harper thought they should mean, which Perrin disagreed with. Perrin also said that Wright get his instruction by the pm and when a agreement between Duffy's lawyer and the PMO was agreed upon, Wright had to go and check in with the ...PM first. and then the payment went ahead. I think some of the senators and the gang in the PMO plus the PM did more questionable things then Duffy did. I wondering if these people broke any Parliament rules themselves and I also wondering if Perrin ever went and talked to the PM himself about the payment, since he was the PM lawyer? Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted August 21, 2015 Report Posted August 21, 2015 Is Harper going to testify in court? I really think he should. Just because he's PM doesn't mean he should be immune. It's his office, the people have a right to hear the man answer questions under oath and not just during Question Period protected under Parliamentary Privilege. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
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