ReeferMadness Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 There've been charges and trials for electoral fraud amongst the Conservatives in every election they've won. So, they've failed on accountability but they're awesome at consistency. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
cybercoma Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 So, they've failed on accountability but they're awesome at consistency.Strong and Stable Corruption.™ Quote
ReeferMadness Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 And you find this surprising? Did you think it was any different under Chretien, or did you simply not care then? Chretien is long gone. I don't care anymore. And, as you and others have repeatedly ignored, Harper has consistently taken the bad practises from the past and made them worse. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Argus Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Well, I was responding to "If [Harper] were facing a better opponent than Trudeau..." His main opponent atm is Mulcair, who I do think is better than Trudeau. Yes, but he's fronting the NDP, whose policy manual I've read. If Marc Garneau was leading the Liberals I'd have a hard time voting conservative... And the only things which would be standing in my way of voting Liberal would be this proportional rep nonsense, and my doubts about carbon taxes. I still wouldn't like other things the party currently is calling for, but then again, it might not be calling for them if Garneau was leader. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Yes, but he's fronting the NDP, whose policy manual I've read.You keep saying this, but you should probably take some time to understand it too. Quote
Argus Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Chretien is long gone. I don't care anymore. And, as you and others have repeatedly ignored, Harper has consistently taken the bad practises from the past and made them worse. It's only your opinion they're worse. Other things are, in my opinion, better, such as their being much less prone to using tax dollar to reward their friends, and being much less hypocritical with foreign policy. I also like that Harper stopped sucking up to Quebec. In any event, the fact Chretien is gone is immaterial. Trudeau or Mulcair would use the Senate in the same way Harper does. That's simply how you govern. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Harper first say he looked over Duffy expenses and saw nothing wrong and he did the same with Wallin and now when asked he changes his story but again!! (words mean nothing to \Harper). How would he look over their expenses? Is he an expert in Senate rules regarding what can and can't be expensed? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Ohhhh. So it's not Harper's fault that he appointed people with no ethics to the senate. It's not the fault of his staff who orchestrated a plot to undermine and manipulate a senate audit. It's not Wright's fault that he paid off a sitting senator to hide the political stink of it all. The fault lies with the journalists who reported it. Because they lack the appropriate reverence for our lord Harper and the bible of conservative ideology. Now I get it. Are you smoking something? I never suggested it was the fault of the journalist, except the journalists he appointed to the senate. And there is no way Harper would know much of anything about the people being appointed other than what someone put in a report to him. As for your imagined 'plot', the only thing I can see them having done is paying back the taxpayer so that there wasn't some grand audit which would open a can of worms on the whole senate - which he is powerless to fix or change anyway. Edited August 19, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Smallc Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 There've been charges and trials for electoral fraud amongst the Conservatives in every election they've won. Which I don't defend them for. I did correctly say, in those cases, that virtually nobody cared. We'll see if people care this time. My feeling is that people are simply sick of Harper, and that he should have stepped down in about 2013. Quote
Mighty AC Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 How would he look over their expenses? Is he an expert in Senate rules regarding what can and can't be expensed? Harper can't be blamed for the expense claims of others, he can only be judged on how he handled the situation. Lying to the public about his knowledge of the situation and involvement in the attempted cover up shows his dishonest and corrupt nature. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
socialist Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Harper can't be blamed for the expense claims of others, he can only be judged on how he handled the situation. Lying to the public about his knowledge of the situation and involvement in the attempted cover up shows his dishonest and corrupt nature. One thing for sure, you can tell who watches Mother Corpse and CTV, when they parrot the nonsense spewed there. My take, I hope DUffy gets screwed. Period. He is the one who messed up. He's just trying the old tactic of trying too drag down as many others as he can, by not accepting, gracefully, his responsibility. POS media type, they ALL are in the same bucket, lower than a snakes belly. When it's so hard to find it's very possibly because there is no scandal beyond the minds of the elected opposition and their friends in the media consortium out to get Harper. This is their election issue,things that affect the lives of Canadians, like the economy and safety issues, are not something they can win on against Harper, this is all they've got. They hate Harper more than they care about the country. The reason you can't see a scandal is because there isn't one - but that is irrelevant to the concerted media narrative or propaganda ploy - innuendo is as good as reality these days, it is irrelevant if you are innocent, guilt by innuendo or association is enough. It's a page right out of the Stalinist era KGB play book for propaganda technique. If you say our coal seems like diamond enough in the media coal becomes diamond in the collective public's mind's eye. Conversely if you repeatedly say their diamonds look like coal - their diamonds are coal in the collective psyche. "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Joseph Goebbels Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Mighty AC Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Which I don't defend them for. I did correctly say, in those cases, that virtually nobody cared. We'll see if people care this time. My feeling is that people are simply sick of Harper, and that he should have stepped down in about 2013. He should have stepped down at exactly the moment he concluded cheating elections, voter suppression schemes and lying about the cost of major election issues were acceptable practices. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
socialist Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 He should have stepped down at exactly the moment he concluded cheating elections, voter suppression schemes and lying about the cost of major election issues were acceptable practices. This is another media endeavor to create doubt in the voter's minds. The ' Afghan detainee' hoax and 'robocall' were two other of many of their projects. It doesn't matter if there is any substance, there is a pot of taxpayer gold at the end of the rainbow and the Conservatives stand in their way. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
Argus Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 FPTP will NEVER be fine. Been fine for a hundred and fifty years now. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 like that old ranting/frothing geezer who has become the accepted spokesperson for die-hard Harper Conservative supporters... "the media are all POS"! Your counterpart, you mean? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 What matters to 7 of 10 voters is turning Stephen Harper out to pasture. What should matter to them is having decent, capable government which doesn't steal the taxpayers money or run the economy into the ground. Right now the only one of the three I'm fairly convinced won't do either is Harper. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
socialist Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 What should matter to them is having decent, capable government which doesn't steal the taxpayers money or run the economy into the ground. Right now the only one of the three I'm fairly convinced won't do either is Harper. Argus, how do you think the NDP will pay for nationalized $15/day daycare? Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
ReeferMadness Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 It's only your opinion they're worse. Other things are, in my opinion, better, such as their being much less prone to using tax dollar to .. Bingo. There it is. tax dollar. It's all you and others seem to think about. Or care about. Harper can steal elections. Ruin our reputation internationally. Wreck the environment. Stifle intelligent thought. Make us a banana republic economy. But none of that matters. You'll vote for him anyway because you live in fear of taxes. The Fraser Institute has trained you well. The ironic thing is that in all likelihood, most of the people who vote Harper because they think he will have lower taxes are probably worse off financially as well as in all of these other areas. You might think you're better off because a tax cut saves you a few thousand dollars. But money has a way of flowing and you might find that you, or your kids, or others like you are actually not better off. But hey, it's all about taxes. In any event, the fact Chretien is gone is immaterial. Trudeau or Mulcair would use the Senate in the same way Harper does. That's simply how you govern. That's a defeatist attitude. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Been fine for a hundred and fifty years now. Yeah, it's a fine system. Assuming you live in the 1800's. Or still think like you live in the 1800's. Edited to add: And the system in practice has been subverted by the parties. It looks nothing like the way it's supposed to work. Edited August 19, 2015 by ReeferMadness Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
socialist Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Harper can steal elections. Ruin our reputation internationally. Wreck the environment. Stifle intelligent thought. Make us a banana republic economy. But you have no problem parroting the faux scandals of the agenda driven CBC. All I can do is shake my head at how easily you are manipulated by the CBC and their ilk. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
ReeferMadness Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Your counterpart, you mean? Very nice ad hominem shot, Argus. Maybe we can have a moderator look at this one. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 But you have no problem parroting the faux scandals of the agenda driven CBC. All I can do is shake my head at how easily you are manipulated by the CBC and their ilk. Yeah, that's it. You can't pin me down to a party. So now I'm a puppet of the CBC? hahahahahaha. that's really pathetic. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Argus Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Argus, how do you think the NDP will pay for nationalized $15/day daycare? Higher taxes, of course. That or borrowed money. Trudeau has made it clear he doesn't mind borrowing money and will balance the budget "eventually", depending on circumstances. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Bingo. There it is. tax dollar. It's all you and others seem to think about. Or care about. Harper can steal elections. Ruin our reputation internationally. Wreck the environment. Stifle intelligent thought. Make us a banana republic economy. No, I wouldn't be happy if he did any of those others things. Fortunately, he hasn't done any of those other things. And yes, I do care about whether the government misuses tax dollars. First, it's my money. I pay a ton of taxes. Second, every dollar misused is a dollar which could have been wisely used instead, or left with me. But none of that matters. You'll vote for him anyway because you live in fear of taxes. No, I fear economic disaster, such as the Liberals are bringing on in Ontario. I wouldn't mind paying more taxes if we actually got something out of it. But, again, using the Ontario Liberals as an example, they hugely raised taxes and spending, but we got virtually nothing out of it. Almost all of it went on higher salaries for public servants, doctors, nurses, teachers, cops and firefighters, power workers etc. But I resent having my taxes go up for no good reason. I resent the government taking my money and then misspending it. Of course, if one pays no taxes, I suppose there'd be considerably less interest or care in how money is spent... That's a defeatist attitude. No, it's a realistic attitude. How do you expect either Mulcair or Trudeau to govern without the Senate cooperating? Edited August 19, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 19, 2015 Report Posted August 19, 2015 Yeah, it's a fine system. Assuming you live in the 1800's. Or still think like you live in the 1800's. Edited to add: And the system in practice has been subverted by the parties. It looks nothing like the way it's supposed to work. Okay, it was a fine system until Harper got elected. That better? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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