Israel's war crimes in Gaza

[bush_cheney2004]

Look people, get back on the subject! ...

Frankly, I'm still thinking about the "genital ways of bringing up cats". But yes, we have a long MLW tradition of arguing about Conflict Dirt Farm without any real possibility of peaceful resolution. Religion's impact is overrated....economics and geopolitics going back to WW1 have been far more influential. Also, Israel could disappear tomorrow and there would still be lots of conflict, including the Palestinians.

[Hoser360]

I once got to know a Rabbi; in a professional environment. I asked him if I could become Jewish..? I tolled him that was neither catholic nor even a christian. He said that I could, however, it would require much dedication before that was possible. So I asked him "if I did in fact successfully become Jewish would also have the right of return, and, after a few moments of thinking he said "I suppose you would".

Whether this Rabbi was right or wrong is not the point. The point is, if the politicians are going to call up 'Holy Scripture' to justify their claim to the land of Palestine, perhaps it's time that the settlers provide proof that hey are genetically linked to this claim. Is it not true that Semites are all children of Abraham?

[bush_cheney2004]

...Whether this Rabbi was right or wrong is not the point. The point is, if the politicians are going to call up 'Holy Scripture' to justify their claim to the land of Palestine, perhaps it's time that the settlers provide proof that hey are genetically linked to this claim. Is it not true that Semites are all children of Abraham?

Doesn't matter....that's all a cover story for raw military and economic power. "Right of return" is only a bargaining chip in a conflict that enjoys no end. Most would rather just fight it out.

[Hoser360]

Frankly, I'm still thinking about the "genital ways of bringing up cats". But yes, we have a long MLW tradition of arguing about Conflict Dirt Farm without any real possibility of peaceful resolution. Religion's impact is overrated....economics and geopolitics going back to WW1 have been far more influential. Also, Israel could disappear tomorrow and there would still be lots of conflict, including the Palestinians.

Since seem to not get my point about the cat and how that relates to the topic and my position, being one sympathizes with the Palestinians, I'll put it a different way, perhaps even in a way that dicks bush could relate too.

There are two bulls (Poppa bull and junior bull) siting a top a hill looking over a field of cows. Junior bull says :hey Dad why don't fuck one of those cows?" and Poppa bull says to his, :no son why don't we walk down their and fuck them all!"

You see, it's that simple! As long as the Zionist keep to the long game they will win.

[bush_cheney2004]

Since seem to not get my point about the cat and how that relates to the topic and my position, being one sympathizes with the Palestinians, I'll put it a different way, perhaps even in a way that dicks bush could relate too.

No, I understood the cat parable, but when we wanted a cat as children, we didn't have to ask anybody...we just got one. See how that relates to Israeli determination to do whatever is in its best interest, without regard to Palestinian sympathizers ?

I predict that the Zionists will be able to hang on just as long as Canada stalls unsettled land claims with First Nations.

[Big Guy]

It's when I read posts like this that I get turned off by your comments. It's sounds sanctimonious and self righteous and does nothing to further discussion. I'm pretty sure that I may fall into this trap as well.

The three you mentioned do have plenty of posts but I like to determine them on an individual basis whether they are constructive or not but you seem to slam them blindly for all their posts.

Maybe you should step down from your pedestal.

I believe that what I am stating are my views regarding those who criticize me. I am entitled to mine. You are entitled to yours. I make no mention of how others should view the posts of these individuals. If you re read my post you should note that I make no recommendation to anyone as how they could, should or might react.

Each person is free to make up their own minds about everyone else. I am sorry that you are turned off by my comments but they are my true views and I stand by them.

As to the relevance to this discussion, you are probably correct but I was responding to GostHacked's response to Rue about his criticism of my posts.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Big Guy

[eyeball]

I predict that the Zionists will be able to hang on just as long as Canada stalls unsettled land claims with First Nations.

I think it's the other way around. Clinging to the ancient squabbles stalls progress just as badly if not worse. Most stallers still choose to leap over the economics and geopolitics of the last 100 years or so to the 5th century if not beyond in their quest to dodge accountability.

[Rue]

This is exactly what I am talking about. Go on prove it. Finish what you started.

Thank you for your support - but I evaluate criticism depending on my respect for the source. In this case it does not bother me at all.

Some people define themselves by those who support them. I enjoy support but choose to define the credibility of my views by those who oppose them. I believe that the less credible the critic then the more credible the view.

I am very, very comfortable to be criticized by Argus, Rue and bush_cheney2004. Their opposition and vehement criticism indicate to me that I am going in the right direction. I thank them for the time and effort they take to post their criticism of my posted opinions. I really appreciate their efforts.

Perhaps if I was interested in their views then I would read their posts and return the favor.

I am not interested and therefore comment only when they refer directly to me with brevity.

The words above evidence:

1-the poster expects others to read his posts but he won't read their posts

2-manifests a belief he can unilaterally dictate the length and content of what others say and then use that unilateral set of conditions to demand they either adhere to his conditions or he feels he can rationalize ignoring them

3-necessarily demonstrates a hypocritical double standard and a continuing tone that he presumes he can dictate and control the content and legth of other posters with edicts

4-evidences he will make allegations against people but refuses to back them up using 2 as his pretense.

I contend 1-4 exhibit someone who converses in bad faith and so I challenge his posts and the people who find such an approach on this forum acceptable and justify it.

[Rue]

I believe that what I am stating are my views regarding those who criticize me. I am entitled to mine. You are entitled to yours. I make no mention of how others should view the posts of these individuals. If you re read my post you should note that I make no recommendation to anyone as how they could, should or might react.

Each person is free to make up their own minds about everyone else. I am sorry that you are turned off by my comments but they are my true views and I stand by them.

As to the relevance to this discussion, you are probably correct but I was responding to GostHacked's response to Rue about his criticism of my posts.

You are not entitled to things you come on this forum and claim you do not provide others. You have shown this forum you expect things from others you won't provide in reverse. This for me shows bad faith and lack of credibility.

For me your attempt to rationalize your double standard as saying you are entitled to it is the very point I have challenged-that you feel entitled and that this entitlement puts you on a pedestal higher than other posters.

The response, the words therefore I contend are petulant and show you are not interested in debating simply stating your opinions and only dealing with those who agree with you.

That is why I challenge you and you can hide from me all you want claiming my posts are too long. You have established in your repeat responses its not the length of my response that prevents your responses, its your belief you are entitled not to respond.

[Rue]

This is exactly what I am talking about. Go on prove it. Finish what you started.

Why are you asking me to prove an unsubstantiated allegation started by Big Guy and then echoed by On Guard For Thee?

I asked them to back up their allegations with the posts they claim I and others wrote.

I did not start anything but I sure as hell can challenge people who make false allegations and can't back them up and no I am not finished. If they continue to make unsubstantiated allegations they can't back up posing those allegations as existing I will expose the falsehood of their statements.

Now please do not ask me to prove someone else's unsubstantiated allegations. That is illogical.

As well unlike Bug Guy who has now stated he expects from others a standard he won't hold himself to, I hold myself to the very standard I expect from others on this forum and its precisely why unlike Big Guy or On Guard, I back up what people have said by repeating their posts.

Do you want to argue being anti Jewish is not anti semitic?

Do you want to make false statements that I called people an anti semite simply because they criticized Israeli state policies.

Go on, do it..but don't make illogical comments that I must finish unsubstantiated allegationst others start or substantiate their falsehoods.

Oh by the way if you'd like explain to me who the posters are that are members of the dark agencies and who those dark agencies are and how Big Guy came to that conclusion.

Someone wants to start a thread to piss on people for being Israeli Jews, I will challenge them. Its bigotry, no more, no less.

[Rue]

I once got to know a Rabbi; in a professional environment. I asked him if I could become Jewish..? I tolled him that was neither catholic nor even a christian. He said that I could, however, it would require much dedication before that was possible. So I asked him "if I did in fact successfully become Jewish would also have the right of return, and, after a few moments of thinking he said "I suppose you would".

Whether this Rabbi was right or wrong is not the point. The point is, if the politicians are going to call up 'Holy Scripture' to justify their claim to the land of Palestine, perhaps it's time that the settlers provide proof that hey are genetically linked to this claim. Is it not true that Semites are all children of Abraham?

I will try answer your question which is a good one.

To start with;

Israel's Nationality Law relates to persons born in Israel or resident therein, as well as to those wishing to settle in the country, regardless of race, religion, creed, sex or political belief. Citizenship may be acquired by:

Birth

The Law of Return

Residence

Naturalization

Acquisition of Israeli nationality by birth is granted to:

1.Persons who were born in Israel to a mother or a father who are Israeli citizens.

2.Persons born outside Israel, if their father or mother holds Israeli citizenship, acquired either by birth in Israel, according to the Law of Return, by residence, or by naturalization.

3.Persons born after the death of one of their parents, if the late parent was an Israeli citizen by virtue of the conditions enumerated in 1. and 2. above at the time of death.

4.Persons born in Israel, who have never had any nationality and subject to limitations specified in the law, if they:

apply for it in the period between their 18th and 25th birthday and

have been residents of Israel for five consecutive years, immediately preceding the day of the filing of their application.

source for the above: http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/State/Pages/Acquisition%20of%20Israeli%20Nationality.aspx

Secondly in regards to the law of return; (same source as above:

Acquisition of Nationality according to the Law of Return

On the establishment of the State, its founders proclaimed "...the renewal of the Jewish State in the Land of Israel, which would open wide the gates of the homeland to every Jew..." In pursuance of this tenet, the State of Israel has absorbed survivors of the Holocaust, refugees from the countries in which they had resided, as well as many thousands of Jews who came to settle in Israel of their own volition.

The Law of Return (1950) grants every Jew, wherever he may be, the right to come to Israel as an oleh (a Jew immigrating to Israel) and become an Israeli citizen.

For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother, or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion.

Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country or of receipt of an oleh's certificate, whichever is later. A person may declare, within three months, that he/she does not wish to become a citizen.

An oleh's certificate may be denied to persons who:

1.engage in activity directed against the Jewish people;

2.may endanger public health or the security of the state;

3.have a criminal past, likely to endanger public welfare.

Since 1970, the right to immigrate under this law has been extended to include the child and the grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of the grandchild of a Jew. The purpose of this amendment is to ensure the unity of families, where intermarriage had occurred; it does not apply to persons who had been Jews and had voluntarily changed their religion.

Acquisition of Nationality by Residence

Special provision is made in the Nationality Law for former citizens of British Mandatory Palestine. Those who remained in Israel from the establishment of the State in 1948 until the enactment of the Nationality Law of 1952, became Israeli citizens by residence or by return.

According to an amendment (1980), further possibilities to acquire citizenship by residence, were included in the law.

Acquisition of Nationality by Naturalization

Adults may acquire Israeli citizenship by naturalization at the discretion of the Minister of the Interior and subject to a number of requirements, such as:

1.they must have resided in Israel for three years out of the five years preceding the day of submission of the application.

2.they are entitled to reside in Israel permanently and have settled or intend to settle in Israel;

3.they have renounced their prior nationality, or have proved that they will cease to be foreign nationals upon becoming Israeli citizens.

The Minister of the Interior may exempt an applicant from some of these requirements.

So based on the above your assumption it defines Jewishness as only being genetically linked to being a semite is not accurate.

I will finish my answer to you next post.

[Big Guy]

...

You have established in your repeat responses its not the length of my response that prevents your responses, its your belief you are entitled not to respond.

I assume that this has been another tirade describing Big Guy as an anti-Semite ... (please see previous posts for another 50 critical descriptions). Thank you for whatever it is you wrote.

This does remind me of King Arthurs confrontation with the Black knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. It ends with the Black Knight shouting: “"Running away, eh? You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to ya! I'll bite your legs off!"

The Black Knight

Now back to the topic - There is still some hope for Israel. If the moderates can again take control of the government there may still be time to reverse the suicidal course that Netanyahu has mapped out:

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.702651

"But the people who live under Hamas rule are human beings. If we do not enable them to live like human beings, we will push them to the wall and cause them to carry out desperate acts that will bring disaster upon them and make us miserable as well."

Canada should break all ties with Israel until the Israeli moderates get rid of Netanyahu.

[Rue]

To further explain Hoser;

The reason Jews have an expedited right to immigrate to Israel is not and has never been linked to one thing, their being semite. I am not sure where you got that concept or idea from.

Its not automatic.

While it allows a fast track for Jews or eligible descendants of Jews, Israel does not prevent a non-Israeli Jew from applying for Israeli citizenship.

All applicants, Jewish or non Jewish need to request approval to immigrate to Israel, a request which can be denied for a variety of reasons including (but not limited to) possession of a criminal record, currently infected with a contagious disease, or otherwise viewed as a threat to Israeli society.

Eligible applicants under the Law of Return have no claim to any of the rights or privileges of an Israeli citizen until they are formally granted Israeli citizenship. This is possible after three months of residency in Israel. New arrivals are issued an Israeli Travel Document during this period, after which they are granted citizenship.

(source for above is Israel's Nationality Law, 5712-1952.)

The right of return is a legal principle derived from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Its intent is to allow people to return to, and re-enter, their country of origin.

The following countries have laws of return like Israel:

Armenia, Belarus, Bulgaria, China, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, India, Iraq, Ireland,

Japan, Kazakhstan, Lithuania,Norway, Palestine (technically not a state), Phillippines, Poland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Spain, Turkey, Taiwan, Ukraine, United Kingdom.

There are also similiar laws for Belgium, South Korea, Moldova, Slovakia, Slovania, Liberia, Holland, Sweden.

None of these countries or Israel defines nationality based on genetics.

These nations in fact define their right to national self-determination and identify a special link between them and persons identified with the nation, or people, whose self-determination that country enables a "right of return" based on that link.

In that sense the state of Israel and law of return does not define Jews as semites and never did. It defines Jews as people who follow the religion, or have a link to it from birth yes, but no being a semite in itself is not the definition for it.

Its interesting because I am not sure where you got the impression it was based on semitism let alone genetics. Being born of a Jewish parent might be the reason you mistake it as genetic.

The concept of a Jew having the right to be fast tracked is because Israeli was specifically created as a refugee haven for Jews escaping dhimmitude in the Muslim world, the holocaust and Christian persecution in the West. It was a state that guaranteed to protect Jews from discrimination.

It was created as a direct response to Jews being defined as dhimmi in the Muslim world, i.e., not allowed the right to own land or have the same rights as a Muslim citizen. Muslim nations do not seperate Islamic beliefs and Sharia law from the government and impose dhimmitude a legal system that defines non Muslims as inferiors.

The idea of creating a Jewish state was two fold-assure Jews never again were defined by a state as inferior or to be a target of a state for persecution. The Jewish state is defined as a protectorate of Jews. However unlike Sharia law Muslim states, it allows Muslim Israelis or Christian Israelis equal legal rights and this is why Muslims and Christians who are Israeli can opt out of family laws and go to their own religious courts, or own land. It defines Arabic as an official language, allows Muslims to be elected to the Knesset run municipalities, and even stand up in the Knesset demanding Israel be disbanded as a Jewish state. It has Muslim newspapers, television stations, mosques, etc.

The state of Israel pays rent to churches whose land it built government buildings on.

The Bahaii Faith's headquarters and main temple is in Israel.

No Jew is allowed to become a citizen of a Muslim nation at this time. Did you know that? Did you also know Jordan which was in fact created in violation of the League of Nations Mandate, was defined as a Palestinian state and still in its constitution prohibits Jews from living or owning land in Jordan? Did you know Jordan offered a law of return, automatic citizenship to anyone who called themselves a Palestinian until 1967? It revoked this law of return after Arafat tried to kill the late King Hussein.

It was only after a failed coups by Arafat to seize Jordan in 1967, he re-defined Palestinian to mean how its used today. Prior to 1967 he ridiculed the concept of a Muslim being a Palestinian or the concept of Palestinian referring to nationality. He believed Muslims should take Jordan, Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, and turn it into a Muslim sub-state which would then merge with Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Egypt and then Tunisia, Libya, Chad, Niger, Algeria, Morrocco, Saudi Arabia, Yemen. Oman, Bahrain the Gulf States as one sunni Muslim caliphate run by Arafat and a Muslim theocracy council.

To this day the charters of Hamas and the PA refer to not recognizing Israel until such time as its no longer a Jewish state and their charters call for it to be merged with Jordan and the West Bank in the first stage of the Pan Arab emergence of a caliphate.

Islam believes eventually the entire world must be ruled by a Muslim council. The problem is its two largest factions, Sunnism and Shiitism are at war with one another.

All Israel did with its law is provide a haven for Jews fleeing persecution. The war against it denying it has a right to be Jewish is for the most part by Muslims who seek a double standard, their right to have Muslim states, but no Jew the right to a Jewish state.

This is deeply connected to its belief that Jews can never be equal to Muslims in any way.

In fact Israel defines Jews the way Italy or Ireland defines Irish or Italians who were not born in their countries.

Its got nothing to do with semitism.

Finally in fact the term semite or semitic refers to the Semitic languages.

Those languages are spoken in West Asia, North and East Africa, and Malta.

The term semite can be used to describe descendants of Abraham and it was used that loosely it means not just Jews and Muslims but Christians.

Semitic as a term is often mistaken to mean all Jews and Arabs. Arabs are not necessarily Muslims. Not all Muslims are semites. Not all Jews are semites if we use the word semite to mean descendant of people from the Arabian peninsula.

The region where semitic languages were first used by people in the Middle East is not known. Its still debated. People who spoke semitic languages went on to be called semites.

Its believed the first people to do this were the East Semitic Akkadian-speaking peoples of the Kish civilization.

Its only in the B mid 3rd millennium BC, there are enough states and cities in what is then Mesopotamia said to be dominated by Akkadian-speaking Semites, which included Assyrians, Eshnunnas, Akkads, or Akkadi, Kish, Isins, Urs, Uruks, Adabs, or Adabis, Nippurs, Ekallatums, Nuzi, Akshaks, Erdus and Larsas.

The term semite could refer to anyone speaking a Semitic language,like the above and so that could includie Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Hebrews, Phoenicians, and Ethiopians (who would become Coptic Christian or Felashie Jew).

Conceivably semite could refer to anyone with a blood line to Shem.

The way a Jew is defined in the context of needing protection from and therefore having a right to expedited procedures to become a citizen of Israel and be protected by it comes from the concept of Jew as defined by Zionism.

That definition is constantly misunderstood and misrepresented as defining Jews as a race or religion or both and then giving them special status which is false.

Its also false to say its based on a Jewish religious concept that God gave Israel to the Jews, or Jews believe they are entitled to special treatment by God. Those are false anti semitic myths and they continue to be recycled on this board.

In fact the passages of Israel in the Bible should not be read literally. In Judaism there are to start with 4 layers of meaning and the literal one is only the start.

In the passages some believe say God gave Israel to the Jews it in fact when read in its full and actual context means God guided the Jews out of slavery to Israel.

However Judaism does not define earth and its land owned by Jews. In the true Jewish sense, we only share it with God and other life forms for the brief period we live and we are supposed to leave it as we found it and follow all the rules of nature.

If anything our original belief is not different than the aboriginals or animistic peoples or Hindus, Taoists, Buddhists, Jains, Wiccans, original gnostic Cjhristians, etc.

Zionism and the concept of Jews being a national collective expressed through a nationalist and political movement of Jews was in fact created by atheist and non religious Jews who felt conventional Judaism had made Jews passive to and incapable of resisting persecution.

It defined Zionism as giving back to Jews their abiliity to be Master's of their own fate and never again be oppressed or victims of other religious groups using their states to put down Jews.

The way it defined Jews as not as semites or as practicing Judaism but as a collective that shared religious, cutlural, ethnic and language values and a common feeling and connection to the experience of being hated for being a Jew.

So the state of Israel sees Jews in that way and needing to protect such people by the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Palestine, Canaan or the Holy Land). It chose that area not because of any strict religious belief that God gave it to Jews, but because that is where we actually came from.

We believed we should return to where we came from, i.e., returning home to our aboriginal roots.

Zionism emerged in the late 19th century in central and eastern Europe as a national revival movement, called Hovevei Tziyon.

Ironically it did not define Jews in terms of our religion nor did it envision we would come into conflict with Arab peoples who were Jews, Muslims, Christians, Berbers, Kurds, Assyrians, Druze, Beduins, Zoroastreans, Bahaiis, Alawite Yazidi, and so on.

The idea was to create a state to protect Jews from antisemitic discrimination and persecution that occurred in their diaspor, i..e, Muslim and Christian worlds, no more, no less.

Interestingly in the Jewish community there has never been nor will there be a consensus of who a Jew is, It constantly changes. In our culture, our definitions are not static, they are subject to constant change. The Talmud is our book of rules as to how to continually question and create new ways of interpeting the Talmud,Torah, Kabbala, etc.

Non Jews make the mistake of thinking we use static, fixed, literal words. We never have, Every word is subject to debate as to its meaning. Every word in Jewish theory has infinite possibilities in terms of meaning.

[Rue]

I assume that this has been another tirade describing Big Guy as an anti-Semite ... (please see previous posts for another 50 critical descriptions). Thank you for whatever it is you wrote.

This does remind me of King Arthurs confrontation with the Black knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. It ends with the Black Knight shouting: “"Running away, eh? You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to ya! I'll bite your legs off!"

I think you mean the dead parrot skit.

You know the one where you keep denying the parrot is dead (anti semetic).

Right then;

1-produce one post (parrot song) where I or anyone else called someone an anti semite simply because they criticized Israeli state policies;

2-explain how being anti Jewish (a dead parrot) is no big deal is a common parrot)

3-explain how being anti Jewish is not bigoted (why dead parrots fly)

4-explain how being anti Jewish is not being anti semitic (how a dead parrot is not dead)

5-how being anti Christian or anti Muslim makes being anti Jewish or the other two no big deal (how dead parrots fly with other dead parrots)

By the way since you did mention Monty Python;

here's the "Never Be Rude To An Arab" sketch:

https://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0LEV2JgUL5WOscAkv7rFAx.;_ylu=X3oDMTEzcDA3c2ttBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQ0FDMDAxXzEEc2VjA3Nj?p=Monty+Python+On+Anti+Semites&fr=yfp-t-715#id=9&vid=8d68fd0ac40d3339f2fed21dba67a2d6&action=view

Edited February 12, 2016 by Rue

[Argus]

I hope the point of all this is to help create a dialog that may one day grow and people in the land once Palestine will no longer die

You mean like when Rhodesia was freed from the tyranny of its apartheid regime and became a land of peace, hope, freedom and prosperity?

Because given the nature of the leadership of the Palestinian people any independance will leave them with about as much freedom and safety as the people of Zimbabwe.

[On Guard for Thee]

You mean like when Rhodesia was freed from the tyranny of its apartheid regime and became a land of peace, hope, freedom and prosperity?

Because given the nature of the leadership of the Palestinian people any independance will leave them with about as much freedom and safety as the people of Zimbabwe.

So you're supporting apartheid now?

[Hoser360]

You mean like when Rhodesia was freed from the tyranny of its apartheid regime and became a land of peace, hope, freedom and prosperity?

Because given the nature of the leadership of the Palestinian people any independance will leave them with about as much freedom and safety as the people of Zimbabwe.

Well Arab rulers are by no means perfect, but, it seems that when there is one that is collectively supported by the people, the Israeli's assassinate him and anyone who happens to be around him (i.e. family friends or just unsuspecting people in the street; but of course those people would simply be human shields who died because of the guy that was targeted)

And yes I know full well that Semites are not all Jewish (that was why I said it), but tell that to Bibi. Oh speaking of that little snake, I guess we should be great-full that he is in office given that he is considered a moderate by Israeli terms and there could much worse leadership (for the Palestinians) in Israel.

Peace for the people born to the land there but unfortunately the many terrorist invaders who insist that the land belongs to them makes that impossible. If I was born their, say in Gaza, I'm quite sure that attacking the IDF would have become a sport.

Church and state and are bad combination and it doesn't matter if you are a Christian, Jew or Muslim.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Hoser360
video link added

[kactus]

Well Arab rulers are by no means perfect, but, it seems that when there is one that is collectively supported by the people, the Israeli's assassinate him and anyone who happens to be around him (i.e. family friends or just unsuspecting people in the street; but of course those people would simply be human shields who died because of the guy that was targeted)

And yes I know full well that Semites are not all Jewish (that was why I said it), but tell that to Bibi. Oh speaking of that little snake, I guess we should be great-full that he is in office given that he is considered a moderate by Israeli terms and there could much worse leadership (for the Palestinians) in Israel.

Peace for the people born to the land there but unfortunately the many terrorist invaders who insist that the land belongs to them makes that impossible. If I was born their, say in Gaza, I'm quite sure that attacking the IDF would have become a sport.

Church and state and are bad combination and it doesn't matter if you are a Christian, Jew or Muslim.

video

video

You opened a can or shall we say a 'bucket of worm here'....Do not not be shocked if you come under attack from Rue et al, Argus, Bush_Cheyney2004, DOP and there's always the silent ones watching this forum....

Be warned the Black Night here might call you anti semite

Edited February 13, 2016 by kactus

[kactus]

Yes I can, and so can the United States, Canada, UK, China, and many other nations. Canada actually has a free trade agreement with Israel, not "Palestine". The word "illegal" means nothing when used to support the ideology of murderers and terrorists. If stealing land was a war crime, Canada's government(s) would have been convicted and punished long ago (e.g. First Nations, residential schools, internment camps, etc.).

Bottom Line: Want to stop Israel ? Be prepared to go through the USA and bring a very big military. My tax dollars support Israel, Palestine, Jordan, and Egypt. What do your tax dollars do ?

Don't flatter yourself and speak on behalf of the world. Fortunately not many nations hold the same view. But hey, if it was your own house being demolished by illegal policies of Bibi you wouldn't be sitting in your armchair typing terrorists... And what is it with these brainwashed hawks and zionists who think they can justify their actions in Palestine and steal land just because of Canada. Looks like you are trying to enforce your ideology down the throats of canadians...

Bottom line is this.... wanna get sucked into more wars on behalf of Israel? Go ahead..... But not in my name. I won't give a dime or shekel for Israel. Of course you are entitled to how you spend your tax money on Israel

[bush_cheney2004]

....Bottom line is this.... wanna get sucked into more wars on behalf of Israel? Go ahead..... But not in my name. I won't give a dime or shekel for Israel. Of course you are entitled to how you spend your tax money on Israel

Thanks for your approval, but never needed your dimes before. The United States (and Canada) support Israel...not sorry for much less love of terrorists. Zionism > Terrorism.

[Hoser360]

You opened a can or shall we say a 'bucket of worm here'....Do not not be shocked if you come under attack from Rue et al, Argus, Bush_Cheyney2004, DOP and there's always the silent ones watching this forum....

Be warned the Black Night here might call you anti semite

Thank you for your comments. I seek to learn and do not pass judgement. I have been seeking people to discuss this with for quite some time, people who are informed, fair, respectful and hope to grow and change some of the notions and persecutions I have learned over the years. I feel that there is a need to change the popular narrative since it seems so over whelming when you really do the math (with regards to Gaza and the West Bank). That being said, let me tell everyone something about myself. I am 45 years old and a 7th generation Canadian of Northern European decent. I am of no religious believe, save a deep respect for mother earth and everything on it.

For what it's worth, I did not mean to offend anyone and I will choose more carefully my words; my goal is to learn not offend.

[Hoser360]

I made a friend last summer who said he was from Jordan. In fact he was from Ramallah. He was the first person I had ever met from the West Bank and he was a little younger than me and he taught me that he word Semite actually refers to wide variety of people of that area and that he himself was a Semite . A few years before that, I made a new friend and she happen to be Jewish. We became friends while building a Jewish school. The people at the school, that met were, great people and a pleasure to work with and the job was successful. A few years before that I had a crew of Arabs and central Asians on my site for over a year and it was a great experience, I even got invited to the after Ramadan feast (where I enjoyed a hot curried goat among other items).

Yes I believe that the current government of Israel has a lot to be desired, but, by no measure do I have any issue with ones religion in spite of the fact that I do not subscribe to any of them. In fact, one of the things I like about Judaism is that they don't tell me I should believe in.

[Argus]

Well Arab rulers are by no means perfect, but, it seems that when there is one that is collectively supported by the people, the Israeli's assassinate him and anyone who happens to be around him (i.e. family friends or just unsuspecting people in the street; but of course those people would simply be human shields who died because of the guy that was targeted)

Can you give us a list of Arab leaders who had the support of the people who were assassinated by the Israelis? In fact, can you give us a list of Arab leaders assassinated by the Israelis at all? I'm not speaking about terrorist leaders but politicians.

[Hoser360]

Can you give us a list of Arab leaders who had the support of the people who were assassinated by the Israelis? In fact, can you give us a list of Arab leaders assassinated by the Israelis at all? I'm not speaking about terrorist leaders but politicians.

The answer to this question is, unfortunately, far too provocative to actually answer adequately for anyone. It starts with the question what is the definition of a terrorist? For example are the Kurd's of Syria and Iraq terrorists as Turkey's president Erdogan believes, or is the United Sate's use of hell-fire missiles launched from drones at unsuspecting targets in Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, etc. considered an act of terrorism? In the case of an occupying army (the US occupation of Iraq for example) at point does the occupies and/or the occupier become a terrorist?

The targeting of civilians exclusively is certainly a terrorist act, this I believe everyone can agree upon, but, in targeting your enemy at what point is collateral damage unacceptable?

The definition of who is a terrorist depends completely on which side one is on and in an environment of 'an eye for an eye', so to answer your question one has to take sides and I don't want to do that since I feel both sides have failed in this.

[Argus]

The answer to this question is, unfortunately, far too provocative to actually answer adequately for anyone. It starts with the question what is the definition of a terrorist? For example are the Kurd's of Syria and Iraq terrorists as Turkey's president Erdogan believes, or is the United Sate's use of hell-fire missiles launched from drones at unsuspecting targets in Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, etc. considered an act of terrorism? In the case of an occupying army (the US occupation of Iraq for example) at point does the occupies and/or the occupier become a terrorist?

The targeting of civilians exclusively is certainly a terrorist act, this I believe everyone can agree upon, but, in targeting your enemy at what point is collateral damage unacceptable?

The definition of who is a terrorist depends completely on which side one is on and in an environment of 'an eye for an eye', so to answer your question one has to take sides and I don't want to do that since I feel both sides have failed in this.

So.... no?