Hoser360 Posted February 15, 2016 Report Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) So.... no? No. I'm not taking the bait. All the enemies of Israel are terrorist it seems, there for your question has no acceptable answer. Edited February 15, 2016 by Hoser360
Argus Posted February 15, 2016 Report Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) No. I'm not taking the bait. All the enemies of Israel are terrorist it seems, there for your question has no acceptable answer. You made the statement that Israel has been assassinating Arab leaders. I ask you who and you won't say? Edited February 15, 2016 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Hoser360 Posted February 15, 2016 Report Posted February 15, 2016 You made the statement that Israel has been assassinating Arab leaders. I ask you who and you won't say? You asked who they have assassinated excluding terrorists and since everyone assassinated was deemed to be a terrorist by them, your question can not be answered. Perhaps if you could define what a terrorist is in your opinion I might be able to answer your question.
Hudson Jones Posted February 16, 2016 Author Report Posted February 16, 2016 You asked who they have assassinated excluding terrorists and since everyone assassinated was deemed to be a terrorist by them, your question can not be answered. Perhaps if you could define what a terrorist is in your opinion I might be able to answer your question. Terrorists are them other guys. Thanks for your approval, but never needed your dimes before. The United States (and Canada) support Israel...not sorry for much less love of terrorists. Zionism > Terrorism. Both the United States and Canada do not support the illegal land annexation and the occupation by Israel. The rules are there, both internationally and at the federal levels. So it's just a matter of influencing the governments to take a stand on them. So far, Israel/Zionism has been able to have the stronger influence. However, that's changing and it is only a matter of time where the excuses will have to stop. Similar to Apartheid South Africa and how it was the international community that pushed the Western government to oppose Apartheid South Africa. When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hoser360 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Posted February 17, 2016 "However, that's changing and it is only a matter of time where the excuses will have to stop. Similar to Apartheid South Africa and how it was the international community that pushed the Western government to oppose Apartheid South Africa." I'd like to believe that but none of our politicians will stand up for it. It was made pretty clear during the 2014 bombing campaign, when all three party leaders supported Israel's right to defend itself. Worse still, you hardly hear a whisper from the north american press regarding the continued expansion of the settlements in the West Bank and what that actually means for the people who have the legal right to the land. Not to say that it is never covered, it is in fact to a certain degree, but, it seems, most people don't care and do not under stand what is really going on. Words like 'security fence' and 'check point' don't sound so bad on the surface. Perhaps some of the folks who may read this and have a, 'ya, ya, whatever' kind of attitude, could take the time to watch the presentation I have left the link for below. It was made by a Jewish American girl and her experience in the West Bank. youtube.com/watch?v=Ch5XlEZoi1c
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Posted February 17, 2016 Both the United States and Canada do not support the illegal land annexation and the occupation by Israel. And yet both the United States and Canada continue to support Israel with economic and military aid that is used to annex more land and control "Palestinian territory". Wink wink... Economics trumps Virtue.
kactus Posted February 17, 2016 Report Posted February 17, 2016 "However, that's changing and it is only a matter of time where the excuses will have to stop. Similar to Apartheid South Africa and how it was the international community that pushed the Western government to oppose Apartheid South Africa." I'd like to believe that but none of our politicians will stand up for it. It was made pretty clear during the 2014 bombing campaign, when all three party leaders supported Israel's right to defend itself. Worse still, you hardly hear a whisper from the north american press regarding the continued expansion of the settlements in the West Bank and what that actually means for the people who have the legal right to the land. Not to say that it is never covered, it is in fact to a certain degree, but, it seems, most people don't care and do not under stand what is really going on. Words like 'security fence' and 'check point' don't sound so bad on the surface. Perhaps some of the folks who may read this and have a, 'ya, ya, whatever' kind of attitude, could take the time to watch the presentation I have left the link for below. It was made by a Jewish American girl and her experience in the West Bank. youtube.com/watch?v=Ch5XlEZoi1c Thanks for sharing this video. Quite long but insightful. I think there are people like this amercian / jewish lady who have taken the courage and speak the truth... Ironically, it's the amercian evangelicals and zionists she speaks of that are doing more harm to Israel than being her saviour.... I encourage all to watch this video
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Posted February 17, 2016 ...I think there are people like this amercian / jewish lady who have taken the courage and speak the truth... Lots of Americans have taken more action than just posting their outrage on a an Internet web forum. Example: Rachel Corrie stood in the path of IDF Caterpillar D9 bulldozers repeatedly until one ultimately killed her. Economics trumps Virtue.
kactus Posted February 17, 2016 Report Posted February 17, 2016 Lots of Americans have taken more action than just posting their outrage on a an Internet web forum. Example: Rachel Corrie stood in the path of IDF Caterpillar D9 bulldozers repeatedly until one ultimately killed her. Yes...and there are many evangelical americans as indeed zionists, who refuse to admit the truth and blindly support the apartheid regime in Israel. Obviously for known reasons being either political motivations or fanatic zealots claiming ownership to the land that does not belong to them...as she stated clearly in the video this is not settlements but colonising....and I don't want to hear you like a broken record repeating canada is the same. The homework starts with your beloved land of US of A to take some responsibility for the unconditional supports she provides to the apartheid regime in Israel. Once that is done canada will follow suit....
Hudson Jones Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Posted February 17, 2016 And yet both the United States and Canada continue to support Israel with economic and military aid that is used to annex more land and control "Palestinian territory". Wink wink... U.S., yes. Israel is their largest welfare recipient, and this is due to the powerful Israeli lobby in the United States. The rules are there. Both Canada and U.S. do not recognize the Israeli settlements to be legal. Now it becomes about pressure from the public. Until the public begins to voice their opinion, it will be business as usual. We are already seeing a shift in public opinion. Unfortunately, North America is a little slower than the rest of the world in understanding the violations Israel continues to commit against the Palestinians. The rest of the world, including Europe are ahead and they are the ones we're seeing making changes in how they respond to the situation. It's only a matter of time. When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Posted February 17, 2016 U.S., yes. Israel is their largest welfare recipient, and this is due to the powerful Israeli lobby in the United States. The rules are there. Both Canada and U.S. do not recognize the Israeli settlements to be legal. Now it becomes about pressure from the public. Actually, the most powerful "Israeli lobby" is American (AIPAC). US public support for Israel has increased, not decreased. So much for "pressure". Good luck with that time thing....Canada has been using that time to increase trade agreements with Israel (CIFTA). Economics trumps Virtue.
Hoser360 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Posted February 17, 2016 To stay on subject... For those who have forgotten or do not know about some of the horrible things Israel did in Gaza I'm going to give a few examples with the links below. These are just three examples, there are more, many more. Gaza Hospital Destroyed youtube.com/watch?v=V4uO8PUuTLE The Telegraph: report youtube.com/watch?v=XV17EQWvHgY Roof Knocking youtube.com/watch?v=69icTMgIjlw
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Posted February 17, 2016 To stay on subject... For those who have forgotten or do not know about some of the horrible things Israel did in Gaza I'm going to give a few examples with the links below. These are just three examples, there are more, many more. Thank you for reminding us. My only hope is that Israel can continue to defend itself from all enemies, foreign and domestic, many, many more times, just as it has had to do in the past. Go Israel ! Economics trumps Virtue.
Hoser360 Posted February 17, 2016 Report Posted February 17, 2016 Thank you for reminding us. My only hope is that Israel can continue to defend itself from all enemies, foreign and domestic, many, many more times, just as it has had to do in the past. Go Israel ! It begs the question, why does Israel always have to defend itself? Defend itself from what, who and why?
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 It begs the question, why does Israel always have to defend itself? Defend itself from what, who and why? Same reasons that Canada bombs the locals far across the sea, but Israel actually has to live in the neighbourhood and can't just run back to North America. Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted February 18, 2016 Author Report Posted February 18, 2016 Actually, the most powerful "Israeli lobby" is American (AIPAC). US public support for Israel has increased, not decreased. So much for "pressure". Good luck with that time thing....Canada has been using that time to increase trade agreements with Israel (CIFTA). AIPAC is all about Israel. It's not about America. Politicians such as Mark Kirk are the leading prostitutes for this Israeli lobby group. He receives his marching orders from AIPAC/Likud/Sheldon Adelson because they pay his bills. He's not alone. There are many other politicians who have become mouthpieces for the Israeli lobby (registered in America!). On the other hand, the always growing BDS movement has become a real problem for the Israeli lobby. They are injecting the truth into the narrative and people are beginning to see the truth. It's all starting on the campuses, where students have better access to information and have more time to look into what is really happening. It's only a matter of time before the pressure from the ordinary citizens and from around the world will be too much for the lobbyists to maintain their power over the narrative of the Middle East. When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 AIPAC is all about Israel. It's not about America. AIPAC is an AMERICAN lobby group, supported by Americans, in America. It is America's pro Israel lobby. The Palestinians wish they had one as good. Arab groups tried, but as usual, they ended up fighting with each other instead. Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted February 18, 2016 Author Report Posted February 18, 2016 AIPAC is an AMERICAN lobby group, supported by Americans, in America. It is America's pro Israel lobby. The Palestinians wish they had one as good. Arab groups tried, but as usual, they ended up fighting with each other instead. Saudi has a pretty strong lobby as well, but you can't wiggle yourself out of this one. AIPAC is for Israel. It's an Israeli lobby group. They are all Israeli Firsters. I'm okay with this. There are many lobby groups. It's part of the game. I just think it's important for people to know why and how their so-called representatives choose to vote. It's not always about the best interest of the people they are supposed to be representing. When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hoser360 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Same reasons that Canada bombs the locals far across the sea, but Israel actually has to live in the neighbourhood and can't just run back to North America. Not sure what locals Canadians are bombing across the sea..? Israel's should just stay in their own neighborhoods and stop settling in the West Bank. Better yet, maybe they should have just stayed where they were.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Saudi has a pretty strong lobby as well, but you can't wiggle yourself out of this one. AIPAC is for Israel. It's an Israeli lobby group. They are all Israeli Firsters. As they should be, but off topic. Please get back to sending lots of military aid to Israel so it can bomb the hell out of its enemies and the whiners can cry about "war crimes". Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Not sure what locals Canadians are bombing across the sea..? Israel's should just stay in their own neighborhoods and stop settling in the West Bank. Better yet, maybe they should have just stayed where they were. Nice try...but Canada rarely stays in its own neighbourhood when dropping bombs on Iraqis, Libyans, Syrians, Afghans, or eastern Europeans. Canadians preaching to Israel about proper bombing etiquette is laughable. Edited February 18, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Economics trumps Virtue.
Hoser360 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Nice try...but Canada rarely stays in its own neighbourhood when dropping bombs on Iraqis, Libyans, Syrians, Afghans, or eastern Europeans. Canadians preaching to Israel about proper bombing etiquette is laughable. Ya, well unfortunately we are one of America's 'bitches' and a part of NATO. That said, our contribution to any of these bombing campaigns (Yugoslavia aside) is negligible compared to the US and can't hold a candle to what Israel dropped on Gaza in 2014 (to get back to the subject). Better yet we aren't trying to move our people to these areas. I don't see Canadian settlers (colonist) moving to any of these locations, building walls (sorry, correction, security fences), check points etc... Edited February 18, 2016 by Hoser360
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Ya, well unfortunately we are one of America's 'bitches' and a part of NATO. By choice...and Canadian foreign policy. Own it, including the "war crimes". ... I don't see Canadian settlers (colonist) moving to any of these locations, building walls (sorry, correction, security fences), check points etc... Canada has already subjugated its own "PalestIndians" in the way of First Nations (unsettled land claims, residential schools, illegal resource allocation, murders, etc.). Israel will work things out the Israeli way too if you don't mind. Economics trumps Virtue.
Hoser360 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 By choice...and Canadian foreign policy. Own it, including the "war crimes". Canada has already subjugated its own "PalestIndians" in the way of First Nations (unsettled land claims, residential schools, illegal resource allocation, murders, etc.). Israel will work things out the Israeli way too if you don't mind. I'm not proud of it, that I came to be born here in Canada, being a 7th generation Canadian, knowing what the Empires and the christian church did to the native peoples here. I wish I had been born in the land of my ancestors (which can be determined directly from the records of my family tree). But you are delving into the distant past to justify the actions of people today. By your logic I should have the right to move to any one of the countries of my families origin. The settlers that are currently occupying the West Bank believe they have the right to do so because of words in a book written more than thousand or years ago and have no direct family history to the land.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 I'm not proud of it, that I came to be born here in Canada, being a 7th generation Canadian, knowing what the Empires and the christian church did to the native peoples here. But yet you still benefit from it and have not started a thread here to discuss or condemn it. What's so special about Israel's version of the same deal ? By your logic I should have the right to move to any one of the countries of my families origin. The settlers that are currently occupying the West Bank believe they have the right to do so because of words in a book written more than thousand or years ago and have no direct family history to the land. Actually, as in Canada and the rest of the Americas, they made the right to do so with economic and military force, just like the British Empire had taught them. Some people don't like it when I draw such historical parallels...it makes them uncomfortable because they have to confront the reality of how Canada came to be and continues to dominate native people and their land, complete with "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity". Israel is a nation state founded and defended by force, and it will continue to do so when faced with any existential threat. Israel does not have to fly over the worlds largest oceans to bomb the locals in the way that Canada does. Israel fights much closer to home. Economics trumps Virtue.
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