marcus Posted October 28, 2015 Report Posted October 28, 2015 So you want to ignore the experience of every single other Arab state that isn't a mass petroleum exporter. Are any prosperous? Do any treat their citizens well? How many are in internal war? Stop trying to pass the buck by dancing around the main culprit: Israel. They are the ones who have been occupying the Palestinians for decades. They are the ones who are annexing their land. They are the ones who are violating their human rights and breaking international law against the Palestinians. "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Canada_First Posted October 28, 2015 Report Posted October 28, 2015 One of the most important scientists to do this is Stephen Hawking.Israel has hundreds of its own brilliant scientists. We don't need Hawking who will be dead within 10 years or so. He's past his due date and his most important works are already known to the scientific community. I hope he sees the error of his ways. That Israel is necessary for the safety of the Jewish people. We simply cannot have another holocaust. It can never be allowed to happen. The Arab countries surrounding Israel all want exactly that. With the exception of Jordan who is now a friend of Israel. Thats what you're supporting marcus. The destruction of the Jewish people in Israel would be another holocaust. Can you not see the error of your ways? Look into your heart marcus and ask yourself if you really want to see all those Jews in Israel pushed into the sea and murdered. I cannot imagine anyone wanting to really see that happen. Only people with such fervorish hate would enjoy such an outcome. The Arabs in the territories can have long lasting peace tomorrow if they simply will put down their guns and bombs and embrace Israel as a neighbor and an equal. If they do that this hostility will end tomorrow. They must recognize Israel's right to exist. If they do this then the Jews and Arabs can live in peace and prosperity for a long time.
Big Guy Posted October 28, 2015 Report Posted October 28, 2015 Israel continues to flaunt UN restrictions on child prisoners: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/oz-israel-prison-palestinian-children-151027102958151.html "When we arrived at the police station, there were people with civilian clothes drinking coffee and many civilian cars. So, in the beginning, we thought we were in a public place," said 14-year-old Khalil. "Behind the parking lot, there were six or seven containers, and that's where they take you for interrogation. There is a very dim, blue light, so you can't see the interrogator properly, and this puts you in a stress mode; you can't see the person who is hitting you." Khalil said he was choked and hit on his face and back by a dozen different officers. "Everywhere you turn, you get slapped then slapped again," Zamzam added. Rights groups, including Human Rights Watch, have repeatedly condemned the ill-treatment of Palestinian children by Israeli security forces during arrests and interrogations, including physical violence, threats, and making them sign confessions written in Hebrew. The sooner that Canada separates itself from the actions of this rogue nation that Israel has become, then the sooner we can start gaining the advantages of an association with Iran. Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Big Guy Posted October 28, 2015 Report Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Thank you for the brevity of your post. I did read this one. The OP is "Israel's war crimes in Gaza". I feel this post of incarceration of Palestinian children very much in line with the OP and should be placed in the appropriate thread but thank you for trying to assist the moderators. I have little use for Israeli policy and completely reject its behaviour towards Palestinians. I also feel that Iran is the country that Canada should be looking to as our associate in the Middle East. So what? That is the best route for Canada. You disagree. So what? How about an anti-Israeli mantra: "Harass them, harass them, Make them relinquish the bomb! Harass them, harass them, Make them relinquish the bomb!" You might notice that I do not rant, opine or make up events. I quote and refer to actual events as verified by respected media. I refer often to Al Jazeera because it is the biggest and most respected media in the Middle East. It is also the first with news since it is based there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera I know myself and am quite pleased with my attitude, priorities and sense of humanity. Consequently, when others (especially anonymous folks) criticize and describe who or what I am, it tells me a lot about the critic. I assume that your negativity of me is directed at other posters in an attempt to demean my views and try to convince them of the validity of yours. Keep trying. I trust the intelligence of posters here to make up their own minds after reading the posts. I do not believe that they require any assistance from me. Edited October 28, 2015 by Big Guy Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted October 28, 2015 Report Posted October 28, 2015 You may not have noticed by now so I will point out that I do not criticize other posters for their opinions unless those opinions are what I consider to be racist or xenophobic - then I share with others what my personal view to be Again and again and again... and again... ... and again... and again and again.... ... and again... Rules and regulations - Mapleleafweb Be Polite and Respect Others No Personal Attacks It is not okay to criticize a person's character Rule of thumb: play the ball, not the person (i.e. Tackle the argument, not the person making it). "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 28, 2015 Report Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) The sooner that Canada separates itself from the actions of this rogue nation that Israel has become, then the sooner we can start gaining the advantages of an association with Iran. It's interesting that someone who comes on this site every single day to lament the human rights situation in Palestine and castigate the Jews so earnestly want us to seek closer relations with a country known throughout the world for its brutality and lack of human rights. In the first nine months of this year, more than 690 people were executed in Iran, “likely putting the execution rate during the first half of 2015 at its highest in some 25 years,” the report says. The majority of executions are related to drug offenses, which the Iranian government considers among the "most serious" crimes. Juvenile executions are similarly “very alarming,” said Shaheed. ... Iran has engaged in various forms of torture, including the surgical removal of eyes and hand amputations as retribution, as well as flogging, this year, according to the report. Journalists, writers and activists also continue to be jailed. http://www.newsweek.com/irans-human-rights-remain-dismal-despite-nuclear-deal-un-387740 Meanwhile, children are subject to the death penalty in Iran, and the rate of executions of minors has increased in the past two years under “moderate” President Hassan Rouhani, according to Human Rights Watch. U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, in his report to the United Nations General Assembly this year, said at least 160 children are serving time onIran’s death row. Mr. Sanei said that even though Iran has signed the Convention on the Rights of the Child, an international human rights treaty that prohibits capital punishment for those younger than 18, Iranian officials say any provision that contradicts Shariah law is null and void in the country, allowing the courts to continue to carry out executions. According to the State Department report, Iranian law permits executions of individuals who have reached puberty, which is defined as about 9 years old for girls and about 15 for boys. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/28/iran-human-rights-abuses-of-women-children-worsen-/?page=all On October 25, 2014, days after President Obama reportedly sent a secret letter to Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei offering regional security cooperation in return for Tehran’s acceptance of an elusive nuclear deal, Iran hanged Reyhaneh Jabbari, a 26-year-old woman convicted of stabbing to death a former Iranian intelligence ministry official who was trying to rape her. Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei declined calls for clemency from the United Nations and international human rights groups, ignoring evidence that Iranian authorities had tortured her to obtain a confession and pressured her to use an inexperienced lawyer. “Tragically, this case is far from uncommon,” Amnesty International’s Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui lamented. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/07/iran-s-horrific-human-rights-record.html Edited October 28, 2015 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Canada_First Posted October 28, 2015 Report Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) It's disgusting that a poster here would want to sever ties with a democracy so we can bow down to a theocracy which kills homosexuals. Wants to kill Jews and destroy Israel. And has no respect orvequal rights for women. I guess we know the kind of laws he'd like for Canada. And these posters call Harper backward...Thats a laugh. Supporters of Iran would put Canada back 100 years. No thank you. Canada's military is weak anyways and doesn't really matter because of the US. The US and UK are great allies of Israel and I doubt any nation on Earth would take on those three. It's almost time for the Jews of Canada to leave here like they are in France right now. It's unsafe to be openly Jewish in France now because of the Muslims. Soon Canada will be like this as well. Then it will be time to go. Either to Israel or to the USA. Edited October 28, 2015 by Canada_First
GostHacked Posted October 28, 2015 Report Posted October 28, 2015 It's disgusting that a poster here would want to sever ties with a democracy so we can bow down to a theocracy which kills homosexuals. Wants to kill Jews and destroy Israel. And has no respect orvequal rights for women. I guess we know the kind of laws he'd like for Canada. And these posters call Harper backward...Thats a laugh. Supporters of Iran would put Canada back 100 years. No thank you. And yet we continue to do business with Saudi Arabia .. seems a tad hypocritical eh?
Canada_First Posted October 28, 2015 Report Posted October 28, 2015 And yet we continue to do business with Saudi Arabia .. seems a tad hypocritical eh? Oh, we agree on that then. I don't think we should be allies with them either. Any enemy of the Jew is also an enemy of western nations, or at least should be. Am Israel Hai!
Argus Posted October 29, 2015 Report Posted October 29, 2015 And yet we continue to do business with Saudi Arabia .. seems a tad hypocritical eh? Not as hypocritical as wanting to cut ties with Israel, a democracy with free elections and an independent judiciary - allegedly over human rights concerns, and befriend Iran, an autocratic theocracy which is one of the world's worst human rights violators and sponsors of terrorism. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Canada_First Posted October 29, 2015 Report Posted October 29, 2015 Gaza is free now. Yet they choose to attack Israel with that freedom and promote the hatred Jews. Israel is no longer in Gaza and haven't been for years. Israel gives Gaza concrete to build infrastructure instead Arabs built tunnels to attack Israel. Gaza government, Hamas, mandates in its charter to kill all Jews in the world and to destroy Israel. So I don't see how peace can possible under these conditions. Abbas, the so called moderate did his PhD thesis on Holocaust denial. How is that moderate?
dre Posted October 29, 2015 Report Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) We don't need to cut ties with Israel we just need to be objective and hold them to account in areas where they violate the law just like we do (should) hold its neighbors to the same standard. As for "befriending" Iran, its not about making friends. For better or for worse, the ill-advised invasion of Iraq disposed of Iran's biggest natural enemy in the region (the Baathists), and made Iraq into an Iranian proxy. We might have an interest in working with them to fight wahhabism/sunni extremism in the case of ISIL. They are better situated to accomplish some of these goals than we are, and they are a more direct stake in the outcome. Iran's proxies now control Iraq, Syria, and a considerable portion of Lebanon, and we have enemies in common with them (Alqaeda, and ISIL to name a couple). I don't really think we have ANY friends in the middle east, but you can make deals where it makes sense to get what you want. The only way we should spend even 5 cents trying to solve their problems is if we can get 6 cents back. Edited October 29, 2015 by dre I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
marcus Posted October 29, 2015 Report Posted October 29, 2015 Gaza is free now. I love your extremism. You spell out the extremists' thoughts, who we have a few of on this forum, without masking it. Reality check: "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Michael Hardner Posted October 29, 2015 Report Posted October 29, 2015 Iran, an autocratic theocracy which is one of the world's worst human rights violators and sponsors of terrorism. Let's get more specific here. Iran killed a female Canadian journalist in prison in 2003, in case people have forgotten: "Zahra "Ziba" Kazemi-Ahmadabadi (زهرا کاظمی احمدآبادی in Persian) (1948 – July 11, 2003) was an Iranian-Canadian freelancephotographer, who was killed by Iranian officials following her arrest in Iran." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahra_Kazemi Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
marcus Posted October 29, 2015 Report Posted October 29, 2015 I don't think anyone should make excuses for Iran's bad human rights violations. Same goes with Israel's bad human rights violations. "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
DogOnPorch Posted October 29, 2015 Report Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) Gaza is free now. Yet they choose to attack Israel with that freedom and promote the hatred Jews. Israel is no longer in Gaza and haven't been for years. Israel gives Gaza concrete to build infrastructure instead Arabs built tunnels to attack Israel. Gaza government, Hamas, mandates in its charter to kill all Jews in the world and to destroy Israel. So I don't see how peace can possible under these conditions. Abbas, the so called moderate did his PhD thesis on Holocaust denial. How is that moderate? I'm old enough to recall the PLO's/PFLP's tactics during the 1970s...largely forgotten. They liked to hijack or blow-up airliners...and occasional cruise ships. Maybe a train. They didn't particularly care if Jews/Israelis were involved or not. Everybody was their target. Edited October 29, 2015 by DogOnPorch Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
marcus Posted October 29, 2015 Report Posted October 29, 2015 I'm old enough to recall the PLO's/PFLP's tactics during the 1970s...largely forgotten. They liked to hijack or blow-up airliners...and occasional cruise ships. Maybe a train. They didn't particularly care if Jews/Israelis were involved or not. Everybody was their target. You may not be old enough, but the history books are: Future Israeli prime ministers were part of terrorist organizations who killed people. There was also the Jewish terrorist group Lehi who sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. You know, the stuff that you're up in arms about when it is committed by individuals or groups from the tribe you try to demonize, but when the other group also has a similar history, you pretend it never occurred or you try to excuse it. "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 29, 2015 Report Posted October 29, 2015 I'm old enough to recall the PLO's/PFLP's tactics during the 1970s...largely forgotten.... Well I am plenty old enough....and the PLO/PFLP can rot in hell for what happened in the 1970's...before...and after. And if the IDF wants to send them there, I am glad to help pay for the tickets. Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted October 29, 2015 Report Posted October 29, 2015 You may not be old enough, but the history books are: Future Israeli prime ministers were part of terrorist organizations who killed people. There was also the Jewish terrorist group Lehi who sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. You know, the stuff that you're up in arms about when it is committed by individuals or groups from the tribe you try to demonize, but when the other group also has a similar history, you pretend it never occurred or you try to excuse it. I'm well aware of who the Stern Gang were. Avraham Stern attempted to make a deal with both Axis Italy and Germany. What did the SS tell him? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted October 29, 2015 Report Posted October 29, 2015 Well I am plenty old enough....and the PLO/PFLP can rot in hell for what happened in the 1970's...before...and after. And if the IDF wants to send them there, I am glad to help pay for the tickets. Oldies like us might even recall Gaza being part of Egypt and the West Bank being part of Jordan. But, yes...the ancient Palestinian people... Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted October 29, 2015 Report Posted October 29, 2015 I don't think anyone should make excuses for Iran's bad human rights violations. Same goes with Israel's bad human rights violations. And lest we forget, our country has committed human rights violations too. There's good reason to think we're committing them as we speak. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Canada_First Posted October 30, 2015 Report Posted October 30, 2015 I love your extremism. You spell out the extremists' thoughts, who we have a few of on this forum, without masking it. Gaza and the west bank are free regions not occupied by the IDF at all. Arabs choose to break the laws of Fatah and sell their property to Jews then Jews move into Arab neighborhoods who are then protected by the government. Are you saying that real estate selling should be racially determined? A practice that's illegal in Canada. Hamas and Fatah choose to spend the billions in aid money on building tunnels and rockets and not on supporting their people. Did you know that truck loads of aid is trucked into Gaza and the West Bank every single day by Israel. Strange behavior for a group of people that supposedly hate Arabs and want to destroy them. Israel could wipe those Arabs of the planet tomorrow if they wanted to but they want peace not war.
marcus Posted October 30, 2015 Report Posted October 30, 2015 Gaza and the west bank are free regions not occupied by the IDF at all. Perhaps in an alternate universe. But according to international law, Canadian stance (even under Harper), those are occupied by Israel. "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Big Guy Posted November 1, 2015 Report Posted November 1, 2015 Even the Israeli soldiers understand that they are the occupiers: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/israeli-forces-gas-die-151031140951304.html In a one-minute video of the incident recorded on Thursday by a resident of the West Bank camp, an Israeli border officer speaking in Arabic reads the chilling message over a loudspeaker as an Israeli jeep rolls slowly down the street. "People of Aida refugee camp, we are the occupation forces. You throw stones, and we will hit you with gas until you all die. The children, the youth, the old people - you will all die. We won't leave any of you alive," the unidentified officer says. "We have arrested one of you. He is with us now. We took him from his home, and we will slaughter and kill him while you watch if you keep throwing stones," the officer continues, referring to a 25-year-old Palestinian who was arrested on Thursday and subsequently released. "Go home or we will gas you until you die. Your families, your children, everyone - we will kill you." I guess this officer had no idea he was being filmed - or he is not reading the current party line. Those speaking the language can check these claims at: https://www.facebook.com/YaZaN.E5lAyeL/videos/10206598210846351/?__mref=message_bubble This is what Harper said that Canada was supporting? JT - time to change direction on Israel before we get painted by the same bloody brush! Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Rue Posted November 2, 2015 Report Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) What a joke. There is no word in Arabic that directly translates to "occupation". But hey Big Dog knew that. Arabic has no direct word that refers to owning land and never did. The word in Arabic closest to it would not mean occupied as we say it in English but "someone is living there". To translate the word into English from Arabic to get "occupied" in the legal sense Big Guy wants would not happen. To come to his conclusion one needs to interpret not translate-literally to take the actual meaning and reinvent it to suit the political agenda Al Jazeera wanted. In the sense it was used and is being deliberately distorted, it means-"ruling authority". These posts get more nonsensical by the minute. But hey to Big Guy all one needs to do is read Al Jazeera to get the only version of truth in the Middle East. Edited November 2, 2015 by Rue
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