Big Guy Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 UN chief: Israeli-Palestinian killings must be probed. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/chief-urges-violence-meets-abbas-151021110704521.html The chief of the UN, representing most of the world, is suggesting that the killings in Israel and Gaza should be investigated to see if crimes, war and otherwise, are being committed by either or both sides. I would assume that both Israel and the Palestinians would appreciate an impartial third party to investigate and publicize those atrocities being done by the other side. Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
sharkman Posted October 21, 2015 Report Posted October 21, 2015 Rue, that's an excellent summary of the situation and this thread. Obama hands Iran nukes and the billions to make them, creates a power vacuum in the ME that Russia steps into, and then wanders into the sunset of his 2nd term pleased with himself. I wonder when American Jews wake up to what he's done.
Big Guy Posted October 22, 2015 Report Posted October 22, 2015 Another Palestinian is removed and another Palestinian house to be taken over by Israeli settlers; http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/west-bank-bids-farewell-veteran-palestinian-activist-151022123036673.html And another martyr for young Palestinians to emulate. Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
GostHacked Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 Supporting 'rebels' to take down Assad is the very definition of terrorism. This term does not get applied equally.
Rue Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Ghost Hacked do you know the military or other tactics used by the so called 'rebels' you referred to? You even have a name for those 'rebels'? Come on. You don't know who these rebels are, how many there are, where they are situate and if in fact they are killing innocent Syrian civilians. You don't know that. Provide your proof they are engaging in terrorism. You have zero basis for that, Your comment assumes anyone you say is a terrorist is with zero objective criteria from which you offer to determine what makes them terrorist. You advance an argument that in fact obscures terrorism and suggests any act of aggression is terrorist. Then you advance the lame argument that what........one can't call ISIS or Hamas or Hezbollah terrorist because these rebels in your mind are also terrorist s that makes it unfair is it? Your premises is illogical. Even if these rebels were terrorists which you have zero proof to conclude, it doesn't magically undo what Hamas Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Al; Quaeda, ISIL are. At best all you will be able to prove is those rebels ARE ALSO terrorist. You even have a point with your comment other than to try justify terrorism by making it an undistinguishable definition so you can then apply your definition of terrorism subjectively to only those groups you disagree with? Edited October 24, 2015 by Rue
Rue Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 Sharkman I ws able to go back and edit the spelling mistakes on the thread.
marcus Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 Another Palestinian is removed and another Palestinian house to be taken over by Israeli settlers; http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/west-bank-bids-farewell-veteran-palestinian-activist-151022123036673.html And another martyr for young Palestinians to emulate. In regards to the terrorist settlers, who burn homes, beat people, throw rocks, uproot olive trees or steal them, one of Hashem Azzeh's final comments was: "They are welcome to share my olives if they would just stop stealing them." "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Argus Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 The violence is building in Israel with more Palestinians being shot to death: Those damn Jews! Why don't they just sit quietly and let themselves be stabbed!? :angry: "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 The lack of understanding and acceptance that this is beyond the issue at Al Aqsa incident allows people like you to parrot the narrative pushed by the Hasbara. Yes, yes, I know. I'm not as knowledgeable as those who dwell on loony conspiracy sites. If you think the occupation, the systematic demolition and replacement of Arab residents with extremist Jewish settlers, and the continuous crap the Palestinians have to go through has nothing to do with the latest boiling point, then you're wasting everyone's time. It means that your understanding of the region is limited and superficial. Nothing happens in a vacuum. The long mutual hostility between Jews and Arabs is the background for everything that happens there. But the current outbreak of violence didn't happen because of that or it would have happened months ago. It happened recently because of the rumours that the dirty Jews would be allowed to profane the sacred mosque (which the Muslims built on a Jewish temple after showing their respect for other religions by tearing it down) You think the score does not matter? Not in the slightest. Do I complain that SWAT teams take less casualties from hostage takers than the reverse? Nope. The instigators are the Palestinians. So they bear the lions share of the responsibility for all casualties. Of course it does. It proves that you think a Jewish life is somehow worth more than a Palestinian life. No, it proves I think the life of an innocent walking on the street is worth more than the religious kook who tries to stab him. It also proves that I lack much sympathy for people who throw stones at armed soldiers and then get shot for their efforts. Only 11 of the 39 Palestinians killed have been attackers or alleged attackers. The rest have been innocent civilians killed by bullets and bombs. By whose reckoning? As far as bombs go, Israeli bombs target those who attack Israel. It's unfortunate the locals, on being given their freedom, chose to elect a terrorist group which calls for another Jewish genocide, and which fires rockets into Israel. Hard to feel sorry for a people who do that. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 This is not about Israel going away. This is now about a Palestinian State alongside Israel. Israel is occupying Palestinian land, and this is the #1 problem. Why do you feel the addition of one more Arab craphole country run by a despotic dictator will enhance the lives of the people in that region? Do we really need another Yemen? The only logical, sensible thing to do with Palestinian territories is to give Gaza to Egypt (and bribe them to take it) and give the West Bank to Jordan (and bribe them to take it). "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) As it has been mentioned by the leaders of the BDS movement, there is room for negotiations through land swap and compensation for the displaced Palestinians. That's mighty white of them! I didn't realize the "Bds movement" were now speaking for Palestinians. And btw, do all those Jews forced out of Arab countries get compensated too? Edited October 24, 2015 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 I suggest that you also review what is a cowardly act. I do not think that killing yourself while trying to kill as many as possible of those, who you consider the enemy, to be a cowardly act. Those who did that on the Western side during the wars were honoured as heroes. I can't think of a single incident where western soldiers deliberate sacrificed their lives to kill a bunch of teenagers in a pizzaria, or to blow up some worshippers at a church, or to kill a few old men in a community center. The only times I can think of where western soldiers deliberate sacrificed their lives was to save their fellow soldiers. What you and the others of your ilk consistently refuse to understand (deliberately) is there is a difference between attacking a military target and attacking a defenseless and anonymous child. That's not to say that children don't regretably suffer in war, sometimes becoming collateral damage, but no sane or moral individual targerts a child. And no sane or moral individual supports people who do. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 24, 2015 Report Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Extremist Israeli Jews don't need to stab to show their inhumanity. They have guns and planes to kill. They use their guns and planes to defend their own people. It's not like they can leave the job to your type. Edited October 24, 2015 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
marcus Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 That's mighty white of them! I didn't realize the "Bds movement" were now speaking for Palestinians. And btw, do all those Jews forced out of Arab countries get compensated too? The BDS movement is part of the Palestinian movement. Majority of them support it. What's better is that many Jews support the BDS movement and their numbers are increasing. European countries continue to pay compensation to Jews for forcing them out. It's time that Israel either gives the Palestinians' land back or compensates them. "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Argus Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 The BDS movement is part of the Palestinian movement. Majority of them support it. What's better is that many Jews support the BDS movement and their numbers are increasing. European countries continue to pay compensation to Jews for forcing them out. It's time that Israel either gives the Palestinians' land back or compensates them. You didn't answer the question. Are Arab states going to compensate Jews they forced out and which Israel took in? And why do you suppose the Arabs who fled Israel were not taken in by their fellow Arabs in the same way Israel took in the Jews forced out of Arab countries? "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 You didn't answer the question. Are Arab states going to compensate Jews they forced out and which Israel took in? And why do you suppose the Arabs who fled Israel were not taken in by their fellow Arabs in the same way Israel took in the Jews forced out of Arab countries? I would guess since the European nations have not compensated the Jews, the thought of Arab states compensating them is even farther off.
Rue Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 Yoi Ghost guess? You again respond without any basis. Why? If you don't know the answer why not just say so. In fact Germany has compensated Israel as most of us are aware. Other nations have not. Poland and Ukraine both sent their Presidents when they broke free of the Soviet Warsaw Pact who both showed eloquence in acknowledging and apologizing for the role their people mauy have played in the holocaust. By so doing, particularly these two Eastern countries, they helped many people begin a period of healing. The Czech President before he died, went to Israel and did the same. Holland has openly commemorated the holocaust's impact on its people, so has France. Your ignorance as to this is par for the course. Israel has never asked The Arab League or the UN for compensation for both the war crimes and illegal ethnic cleansing and expulsion of Jews from the Arab League nations. In fact it took in 700,000 of the 900,000 expelled Jews, and then later further Jewish refugees from Ethipia. Israel took in 10,000 Muslims from Serbia, and has taken in thousands of gay Muslims escaping from the Muslim world. It has played a role in trying to protect Kurdish refugees, and is a safe home for Bahaiis whose head temple is in Jaffa. In fact Israel is what it is to provide refuge to Jews. Unlike the Muslim world, it only is in less than 6% of it, does not have mutliple Muslim nations with plenty of space. Unlike te Arab League and Iran who refuse to take in Muslim refugees it actually has and those Muslims who stayed in Israel were given the very same legal rights as Israeli Jews and the very rights no Jew, no non Muslim has in a Sharia law nation. You are well aware of that. As for your ignorance of European nations and in particular Germany, its to be expected. You are at the point now where yyou admit you don't know the answer but answer anyways.
Rue Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) Marcus even if what you said is true, that some Israeli Jewish settlers are evil demons, which is and has remained your only position, it does not justify terrorism by either side. Your words slur all Jews world wide not just Israelis and Zionists in your responses about evil Israel, and those words try justify terrorism against Jews by demonizing certain Jews and using that as the pretext to justify Palestinian terrorism. It is not. Just as you and Bug Guy and others complain that all Muslims are smeered in these threads as being terrorist, you engage in the exact same exercise with Jews. Either way its b.s. I also have said it openly to Argus and will say it again, I can only speak for myself and I distance myself from comments that slur all Palestinians, all Israeli Arabs, all Muslims as demons, terrorists, etc. Its not helpful, and its just the other side of the hateful dialogue Marcus, Bug Guy and Hudson Jones have used-negative generalizations of an entire people and it is what terrorists want to us to engage in, polarized hateful dialogue. More Palestinians will die as a result of the idiot Palestinian terrorists than Israelis when this is done. The terrorists use their own people as the disguise to launch their attacks to deliberately get their own people killed and leaving in fear of Israelis to then polarize them and recruit them into extremist terrorism. The challenge for Israel and it sure as hell is not easy is to try find ways as almost as impossible as it is, to try kill the terrorists but avoid innocent civilians on either side dying. Easier said than done. It is important to Palestinian terrorists to kill as many if not more Palestinians than they do Jews. That is their game plan. Place innocent Palestinians in harm's way by making them indistinguishable from Israelis and get them killed to enrage them and then be able to recruit them. Its cold blooded, its deliberate, its calculated and it is something Marcus, Big Guy, Hudson Joes, Eye, Ghost, Miley, BC Chick, will not acknowledge and in fact play along with, isolating the responses of Israel, removing them from their actual context, pretending they are isolated acts done for no reason other than what they call hatred or racism. I say IT AGAIN terrorism kills innocent people whether they be Israeli or Palestinian, Muslim or Jew equally. Those who come on this board and blame it solely as the fault of Jews or all Muslims spin exactly what terrorists want. As well those who spin words that call all Muslims terrorists do exactly what the Musllim terrorists want. They don't want us to distinguish moderate Muslims from terrorist ones so that we alienate the moderate ones and have them feel they are forced to side with the terrorist ones. Muslims and Jews, all of us must challenge and expose extremism of any religion and terrorism. If someone pulls the Muslim victim card to justify terrorism they should be criticized. If someone tries to argue Judaism or Christianity justifies terror, they should be criticized. My position is as black and white as it gets,, Terrorists are not entitled to dialogue They are entitled to a bullet between the eyes. They have long since lost the right to rational dialogue. They have chosen to place people hostage. They do not negotiate-they have no interest in negotiating-they need to be killed before they kill. Some settlers on the West Bank are extremist yes. To suggest however only Jews spit, throw rocks, engage in violence on the West Bank is b.s. I have been spit at by both sides. The spit is the same. The swear words are identical. When the stone hits, the sting is identical. You so called experts on the West Bank do not and will never understand that. I first and witnessed Palestinians terrorizing Palestinians. I do not come to my vantage point from reading internet sites that tell me what I want to hear. I saw first hand Arab Muslims come to Palestine and steal land from Palestinians, turn around and try sell it hundreds of times to other non Palestinians. I have witnessed Palestinians beat up fellow Palestinians for not paying them donations to the "cause" and beat the crap out of Palestinian fathers and mothers trying to stop their children from joining Fatah or whoever. Arafat, Abbas, Hamas, they steal the money from the people, and keep them hungry deliberately to prolong a war they will never allow to come to an end. They hold their Palestinians and fellow Arab Muslims hostage across the Middle East. Palestinians are their own worst enemy as Muslims are their own worst enemy. That is a fact. All Muslims know this. That is why so many flee and become refugees. I would also say if Israel was not under constant existential siege it could very well be its own Jewish people would have turned on themselves as Muslims have on themselves with a dispute between the non religious and extremist religious, between Arab and non Arab Jews, between Russian and non Russian Jews, and so on. The region is complex. Its full of factional disputes of which Jewish-Muslim ones are actually a tiny minority. That however is not discussed on this forum because we have the same group whose sole agenda is to flood the discussion board with piss on Israel threads and ignore the rest. Their script can not acknowledge the moral culpability of terrorists in the Muslim world. It can't acknowledge Muslim terrorism,, let alone Muslim on Muslim violence. Its script is limited t trying to pretend any problem in the world is caused by Zionism. Edited October 25, 2015 by Rue
Argus Posted October 25, 2015 Report Posted October 25, 2015 I would guess since the European nations have not compensated the Jews, the thought of Arab states compensating them is even farther off. Huh? According to Marcus European nations have been paying Jews compensation. He said so in the post to which I replied. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Bonam Posted October 26, 2015 Report Posted October 26, 2015 Those damn Jews! Why don't they just sit quietly and let themselves be stabbed!? :angry: That very question has been causing much consternation for the usual suspects. For thousands of years, Jews did pretty much exactly that in the face of the rampant racism and murderous hatred that they still face to this very day. No longer. Antisemites the world over, including at the UN, remain shocked that Jews have the audacity to not just lie down and die.
Bonam Posted October 26, 2015 Report Posted October 26, 2015 Why do you feel the addition of one more Arab craphole country run by a despotic dictator will enhance the lives of the people in that region? Do we really need another Yemen? The only logical, sensible thing to do with Palestinian territories is to give Gaza to Egypt (and bribe them to take it) and give the West Bank to Jordan (and bribe them to take it). I don't think there's anything you could possibly pay Egypt or Jordan to induce them to take back Gaza or the West Bank.
marcus Posted October 26, 2015 Report Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) You didn't answer the question. Are Arab states going to compensate Jews they forced out and which Israel took in? Anyone who forces a person out of their home is wrong and should be held responsible, and in this case, the Arab nations should compensate anyone who they have forced out of their homes. But I don't speak for Arab nations so I'm not sure why you're asking me whether or not they're going to compensate them. And why do you suppose the Arabs who fled Israel were not taken in by their fellow Arabs in the same way Israel took in the Jews forced out of Arab countries? There are now millions of Palestinians in several Arab countries who have been taken in. The reason why they do not become citizens of those countries is because that would mean that they have given up on their home in Palestine or as they say: "in order to preserve the Palestinian entity and Palestinian identity." Edited October 26, 2015 by marcus "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Rue Posted October 26, 2015 Report Posted October 26, 2015 Marcus you engage in fiction. There are not millions of Palestinians who have been taken in by Arab countries. You also then create further fiction bu stating they are not citizens of those countries "in order to preserve the palentation entity and Palestinian identity ". Its interesting to note you claim to think for these alleged people and also include a quote with no reference to the quote. Oh ell them where your quoted words come from. They are a coded term for refusing to accept Israel as a Jewish nation. You also take part in the fictional script that has people never born in Israel as Palestinians. You haven't a clue who they are descended from but you pretend they are all descended from Palestinians who once supposedly lied in Israel. You faithfully parrot the script that is for sure. You ignore the fact as well that the Palestinians you refer to are either imprisoned in Palestinian refugee camps or are slave labour in wealthy Arab nations and are as despised as Pakistanis, Ari Lankans, black African Muslims, Indonesian, Philippinos. But hey keep up that fiction. Imagine the dream- Israel will be destroyed and turned into a Muslim state and the ME will become Jew free one day Ah dreams.
Argus Posted October 26, 2015 Report Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) I don't think there's anything you could possibly pay Egypt or Jordan to induce them to take back Gaza or the West Bank. Egypt is a huge country, population wise, and absorbing Gaza would not be a big problem. After a few years of improvement in their lives I think most of the Palestinians there would be pretty happy to call themselves Egyptians and have no more violence, bombing or masked men dragging suspected informers through the streets on ropes. Jordan would be a harder job, but money talks, and Jordan needs it. And as with Gazans, a few years of peace and relative prosperity would probably dissuade most of the people of the West Bank from the theory of how wonderful a new country would be. Edited October 26, 2015 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted October 26, 2015 Report Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Gaza is a huge country, population wise, and absorbing Gaza would not be a big problem. After a few years of improvement in their lives I think most of the Palestinians there would be pretty happy to call themselves Egyptians and have no more violence, bombing or masked men dragging suspected informers through the streets on ropes. Jordan would be a harder job, but money talks, and Jordan needs it. And as with Gazans, a few years of peace and relative prosperity would probably dissuade most of the people of the West Bank from the theory of how wonderful a new country would be. There's still deep animosity between the so-called Palestinians and the Jordanians. The Grand Mufti had assassinated Jordan's first king for seeking peace with Israel while Arafat had tried to takeover Jordan by force in 1970. More Palestinians died in that event than in any Israeli-PLO dust-up...but few remember it...unlike 1967. Edited October 26, 2015 by DogOnPorch Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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