Iran Key To Middle East Peace

[Big Guy]

Looks like the Americans have finally realized that Iran is the key to peace in the Middle East.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/11/iran-nuclear-deal-impossible-before-deadline-201411238037270961.html

For the last while I have been suggesting that there will be no movement in the Middle East without Iran having a great influence. The West will need Iran if ISIS is to be challenged on any serious level. With the ongoing sanctions it has been difficult for any kind of dialogue.

I believe that we will soon hear of a "deal" with Iran that will be announced as a "victory" by both sides and with a promise of renewed cooperation. Israel has to be eying this cooperation with a skeptical eye. Netanyahu has been thumbing his nose at criticisms from the UN and US about their recent incursion and bombing of Gaza and the increased building of settlements.

Since Israel was the USA's only option in that area Israel was able to satisfy domestic policy over adhering to Western policy. If/when Iran starts to "cooperate" with the West then Israeli autonomy will be challenged.

Iran's ties to Syria, Lebanon and Russia are crucial to any long term peace process.

I also believe that the West has realized that Iran will eventually develop the bomb and there is nothing they can do about it so it may as well develop cooperation before it happens. Israel was able to steal nuclear technology from the USA and was allowed to keep it so Iran feels it also has the right to join the nuclear table.

With what is happening lately in the area, the warning of the West in the past of military intervention in Iran if it did not give up on nuclear development is an empty and useless threat.

Iran is the key and finally the West is realizing that fact. Good for us!

[Derek 2.0]

I also believe that the West has realized that Iran will eventually develop the bomb and there is nothing they can do about it so it may as well develop cooperation before it happens. Israel was able to steal nuclear technology from the USA and was allowed to keep it so Iran feels it also has the right to join the nuclear table.

With what is happening lately in the area, the warning of the West in the past of military intervention in Iran if it did not give up on nuclear development is an empty and useless threat.

I would be interested to know what forms your opinion that the "West" is consigned to a nuclear armed Iran? The development of such, if it doesn't beget an Israeli first strike, is a nuclear armed Saudi Arabia in short order, leading to an increased regional (nuclear) arms race between the three camps....The threat of an American military intervention is largely empty due to the current administration, but an Israeli strike shouldn't be discounted as hollow.

[eyeball]

Iran is the key and finally the West is realizing that fact. Good for us!

And only 61 years too late. Yeah, way to go.

[Rue]

United States only shifted away from Iran in 1979. The decision to shift back towards Iran is a direct result

of the foreign policy of Zbigniew Brezinski brought back into the White House as Obama's chief Middle east policy advisor.

Britain and the US and for that matter Israel had close ties to Iran until 1979.

Its sheer nonsense to state is been 61 years.

It has been about 35 years AND there continues to be a strain between Iran and the West including the US and US domestic oil production has increased partially in direct response to Iran's world moves to destabilize oil prices.

The fact that Obama has now turned to Iran and Hezbollah in a desperate attempt to help him put down ISIL gone rogue does not necessarily mean Iran is an ally of the US.

In fact Iran's closet allies are China and Russia after Hezbollah not the US

.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Rue

[On Guard for Thee]

United States only shifted away from Iran in 1979. The decision to shift back towards Iran is a direct result

of the foreign policy of Zbigniew Brezinski brought back into the White House as Obama's chief Middle east policy advisor.

Britain and the US and for that matter Israel had close ties to Iran until 1979.

So this nonsense about it being 61 years late is nonsense and it once again shows that some people on this board know

nothing about the foreign policy they discuss and its origins and time lines,

It has been about 35 years there was AND continues to be a strain between Iran and the West.

The fact that Obama has now turned to Iran and Hezbollag in a desperate attempt to help him put down ISIL gone rogue does not mean Iran is an ally of the US. If anything it sits back sneering at the US.

Iran's closet allies are China and Russia after Hezbollah not the US.

Iran will never embrace the US as an ally with its current Shiite clergy council regime.

The time line is not too difficult for anyone to find as to what started happening as of '79 which is 35 years ago not 61.

Obama and his entourage of anti Israel advisors who urged him to ally with the Muslim Brotherhood the dead enemy of Iran is ironic because the Muslim Brotherhood is the dead enemy of Saudi Arabia,Egypt, Jordan and Israel as well as Kuwait and the UAE and these 5 Sunni nations and Israel also consider Iran just as deadly.

So here is Obama alienating his 5 most solid allies of the Middle East in favour of the Muslim Brotherhood and Iran who both are at war with each other.

He's an idiot. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, the UAE, Kuwait all asked Obama to cool it and not fan the flames between the Muslim brotherhood and Iran as both were their enemies and fanning and inciting both their enemies would do no good.

Obama gave them all the finger and formed an alliance with Morsi and Erdogan thinking the Muslim Brotherhood would simply take over Libya and Tunisia, form an alliance with Egypt, then move into Syria and form an alliance with the US and Turkey while at the same time Obama would see to it Lebanon and Iraq remained Shiite puppets, the Kurds kept from getting a country, and of course Israeli alienated,

Obama turned his back on the slaughter of Coptic Christians in Egypt, Christians in Sudan and the Boca Raton in Nigeria and refused to get involved in Mali,,Niger, Dahomey, Senegal,Kenya and Somalia as Muslim Brotherhood extremist terror cells created havoc. The French tried their best to subdue a Muslim Brotherhood civil war in Mali but without Obama's assistance it was crippled from the start.

Obama's policy is classic Zbigniew Brezinski doctrine. This policy believes Russia is the US's no.1 foe, then China. Israel is seen as a nuisance and expendable as is Egypt.

The problem is Saudi Arabia will not abandon Egypt, feels morally responsible for the protection of Jordan and all Arab monarchies, and has passed on getting nuclear weapons from Pakistan at this time so as not to alarm Israel or Iran in return of a pledge from Israel it will protect Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordan,Kuwait, the UAE from Iran and Hezbollah in return for Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Jordan keeping tabs on the Palestinian Authority and Hamas as well as Al Quaeda/Al Nusra.

These nations have had to create their own alliances and new ones with Russia and China to counter balance this disasterous US foreign policy which tries to court enemies of each other at the same time.

Obama is an idiot and I would suggest so is anyone who thinks the key to the Middl East is Iran. Iran is not even part of the Middle East.

The Middle East stops at Iraq. It has never include Turkey or Iran. Both those nations were never part of the Middle East pan Arab world envisioned byu Nasser that continues today through the Arab League of Nations which deeply distrusts Iran and the Hezbollah.

Obama's decision to prop a Shiite puppet in Iraq to placate Iran is the very reason ISIL turned on Obama.

Looks like the Americans have finally realized that Iran is the key to peace in the Middle East.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/11/iran-nuclear-deal-impossible-before-deadline-201411238037270961.html

For the last while I have been suggesting that there will be no movement in the Middle East without Iran having a great influence. The West will need Iran if ISIS is to be challenged on any serious level. With the ongoing sanctions it has been difficult for any kind of dialogue.

I believe that we will soon hear of a "deal" with Iran that will be announced as a "victory" by both sides and with a promise of renewed cooperation. Israel has to be eying this cooperation with a skeptical eye. Netanyahu has been thumbing his nose at criticisms from the UN and US about their recent incursion and bombing of Gaza and the increased building of settlements.

Since Israel was the USA's only option in that area Israel was able to satisfy domestic policy over adhering to Western policy. If/when Iran starts to "cooperate" with the West then Israeli autonomy will be challenged.

Iran's ties to Syria, Lebanon and Russia are crucial to any long term peace process.

I also believe that the West has realized that Iran will eventually develop the bomb and there is nothing they can do about it so it may as well develop cooperation before it happens. Israel was able to steal nuclear technology from the USA and was allowed to keep it so Iran feels it also has the right to join the nuclear table.

With what is happening lately in the area, the warning of the West in the past of military intervention in Iran if it did not give up on nuclear development is an empty and useless threat.

Iran is the key and finally the West is realizing that fact. Good for us!

I think if you go read up on what's happening in Vienna as we speak it will show you you are wrong on the west's stance on Iran having nukes.

[eyeball]

United States only shifted away from Iran in 1979.

The United States killed an infant Iranian democracy in it's crib in 1953.

The Mother-fucker of all Dots connecting event's in the region like no other's in living memory.

[Big Guy]

I believe that there is a big difference in what the USA says and what the USA negotiates and plans for. While it does still support Israel it cannot afford to keep all its eggs in the Israeli basket. Remember how vehement the USA was against Israel getting nuclear technology but was conveniently asleep at the switch when the technology was stolen from under their nose.

I think that we will agree that there are two realities which always go on; What the public is told and informed as to what is happening and what is really happening on the back room indirect negotiations that we will never know because of "national security" issues.

There are all kinds of nukes "missing" and floating around since the USSR self destructed. BTW - How did North Korea - that "epitome of technology" develop the bomb?

[On Guard for Thee]

I believe that there is a big difference in what the USA says and what the USA negotiates and plans for. While it does still support Israel it cannot afford to keep all its eggs in the Israeli basket. Remember how vehement the USA was against Israel getting nuclear technology but was conveniently asleep at the switch when the technology was stolen from under their nose.

I think that we will agree that there are two realities which always go on; What the public is told and informed as to what is happening and what is really happening on the back room indirect negotiations that we will never know because of "national security" issues.

There are all kinds of nukes "missing" and floating around since the USSR self destructed. BTW - How did North Korea - that "epitome of technology" develop the bomb?

They got it with a little help from their friends in the USSR.

[bush_cheney2004]

The same way Pakistan and India got help from Canada ! France was far more important to any Israeli nuclear weapons development compared to the U.S.

[sharkman]

Uh, no. Iran is not key to peace in the ME. This is some kind of joke, right?

In other news, the US is primed to sign some kind of treaty with Iran, limiting their nuclear ambition and opening up trade, etc., again and giving them aid. In turn, Iran will do EXACTLY what North Korea did when Jimmy "bonehead" Carter got them to sign a treaty. But in reality, this may be just what Obama is aiming for.

[On Guard for Thee]

Uh, no. Iran is not key to peace in the ME. This is some kind of joke, right?

In other news, the US is primed to sign some kind of treaty with Iran, limiting their nuclear ambition and opening up trade, etc., again and giving them aid. In turn, Iran will do EXACTLY what North Korea did when Jimmy "bonehead" Carter got them to sign a treaty. But in reality, this may be just what Obama is aiming for.

First of all it's not just the US in Vienna just now. But more importantly, an agreement that gives you access on the ground is much smarter than spewing a bunch of rhetoric and going home.

Edited November 24, 2014 by On Guard for Thee

[Derek 2.0]

In turn, Iran will do EXACTLY what North Korea did when Jimmy "bonehead" Carter got them to sign a treaty. But in reality, this may be just what Obama is aiming for.

Israel doesn't look at a nuclear Iran as a political issue, to be leveraged to gain votes at home, but as an imminent threat that threatens its very existence, if the treaty bears no fruit, Israel can't not bomb Iran........

[Bonam]

There are all kinds of nukes "missing" and floating around since the USSR self destructed. BTW - How did North Korea - that "epitome of technology" develop the bomb?

The bomb they developed is very primitive. Believe it or not, it's not very hard. And there is more than sufficient information available on how to build a very basic nuclear bomb in widely available physics textbooks. The only hard part is getting the needed amounts of enriched uranium or plutonium to build it.

[sharkman]

First of all it's not just the US in Vienna just now. But more importantly, an agreement that gives you access on the ground is much smarter than spewing a bunch of rhetoric and going home.

Right, access on the ground so the UN inspectors can play hide and seek with Iranian officials.

They may be trying to sign something so that when Israel bombs them back to the stone age(which most of the country is not that far off of) then Iran can say, "Okay bitches, smoke Israel!". Ah, the games people play. I hope you're not a sucker, Guardster, you see where this can go don't you?

Edited November 24, 2014 by sharkman

[marcus]

So people here want to side with a murderous Caliphate who murders homosexuals just for being gay but the Leader denies that any gays exist in Iran. Iran who kidnapped people in the 70's. Who calls for the destruction of Israel and condones the murdering of Jews. Iran used to be a moderate state but it has become more and more ideological in the passing decades. Israel will attack Iran if they get the bomb I think. I don't blame them because Iran will use the nuclear weapon against Israel. Israel was given to the Jews by God and must be protected. We cannot allow Nazi sympathizing state like Iran to create another holocaust....NEVER AGAIN!

Why is it whenever you type something, nothing but misinformation comes out of your fingers? Are you some kind of a satirical character, making fun of people like Sharkman, jbg and Rue?

Iran has the highest population of Jews in the Middle East, outside of Israel. With an estimated 25,000 of them living there, without the fear of being Jewish. There are over 20 Synagogues just in the capital city, Tehran.

If Iran wanted to kill Jews, they would have done so already to the Iranian Jews living in Iran.

[sharkman]

Why is it whenever you type something, nothing but misinformation comes out of your fingers? Are you some kind of a satirical character, making fun of people like Sharkman, jbg and Rue?

Iran has the highest population of Jews in the Middle East, outside of Israel. With an estimated 25,000 of them living there, without the fear of being Jewish. There are over 20 Synagogues just in the capital city, Tehran.

If Iran wanted to kill Jews, they would have done so already to the Iranian Jews living in Iran.

Maybe you should provide a link to your source, it seems pretty off. My Wiki link says it's slightly above 8700, down from 25,000 in 2009. Looks like they've been leaving for some reason. Any guesses there? Maybe you can find another 5 year old link.

[eyeball]

Iran used to be a moderate state but it has become more and more ideological in the passing decades.

Yeah, ever since we overthrew their democracy.

It must have seemed like a good idea at the time but you know what they say about hindsight.

[GostHacked]

So people here want to side with a murderous Caliphate who murders homosexuals just for being gay but the Leader denies that any gays exist in Iran.

Saudi Arabia, Qatar.

[marcus]

Maybe you should provide a link to your source, it seems pretty off. My Wiki link says it's slightly above 8700, down from 25,000 in 2009. Looks like they've been leaving for some reason. Any guesses there? Maybe you can find another 5 year old link.

Not because they are being persecuted. I am sure the population has decreased for various reasons, including the extremely high incentives they are regularly offered by Israel for them to leave.

You know what? Even though you're trying to find the smallest estimates possible, to try to somehow find fault in what I am saying, even though it ruins your narrative that Iranians just want to kill Jews, I am glad, for once, you are looking up information and learning something, instead of throwing around cliche and stereotyped misinformation.

So you admit there are Jews living in Iran who are not being killed. Good job.

[Big Guy]

I was hoping that this thread would not deteriorate into another Jews, Israeli good, Israeli bad, Muslin good, Muslim bad etc and etc and etc. I thought that everyone has already expressed themselves on those issues to exhaustion.

My point is that the instability in the Middle East is not going to be resolved with the direction in which things are going. The Iranians are doing what is best for Iran, the Israelis are doing what is best for Israel and the USA is doing what it thinks is best for the USA. I still have no idea why Canada is doing what it is doing.

Iran continues to appear to be the most stable country in that area with a powerful armed force and the capability to become the honest broker between the Israel/USA combination and the Arab states. Israel continues to expand with new settlements and a building armed force. At one time Israel did what the USA told it to do but that has changed. If given the choice of doing what is best for the USA or what is best for Israel it will rightly do what it thinks is best for them. The last few years have shown that Israel believes it no longer has to follow USA directions or resolutions from the UN. Israel may indeed be correct.

The time will come soon (if it is not here already) when Israel will not need the West for protection. The West will have to depend on someone else to reflect USA influence in the area.

BTW - As to the nuclear bomb, I have no doubt that Iran already has the technology, is building the resources and with Russian support already have nuclear capability. Those punitive sanctions on Iran have been ineffective, should be removed and the West should be looking at Iran in a different light.

[sharkman]

Not because they are being persecuted. I am sure the population has decreased for various reasons, including the extremely high incentives they are regularly offered by Israel for them to leave.

You know what? Even though you're trying to find the smallest estimates possible, to try to somehow find fault in what I am saying, even though it ruins your narrative that Iranians just want to kill Jews, I am glad, for once, you are looking up information and learning something, instead of throwing around cliche and stereotyped misinformation.

So you admit there are Jews living in Iran who are not being killed. Good job.

That's almost funny, you totally screw up the facts, but somehow it's all about me!

Fact 1: The population has decreased to 35% of what it was in under 5 years. Fact 2: you have no idea why that is, and guesses don't count. Fact 3: You are the one "throwing around" misinformation.

Maybe you should look up the facts once in a while, more often than every 5 years let's say.

Edited November 24, 2014 by sharkman

[marcus]

That's almost funny, you totally screw up the facts, but somehow it's all about me!

Fact 1: The population has decreased to 35% of what it was in under 5 years. Fact 2: you have no idea why that is, and guesses don't count. Fact 3: You are the one "throwing around" misinformation.

Maybe you should look up the facts once in a while, more often than every 5 years let's say.

So why are there Jews in Iran who are not being killed? Despite what you keep saying about how Iranians just want to "annihilate", "destroy", "massacre" all Jews so that you can eternally play the victim card.. to somehow excuse Israel's treatment of Palestinians.

The population and treatment of Jews in Iran ruins what you keep trying to sell about Iran and Jews.

[sharkman]

What exactly have I said about Iranians and Jews? Be specific.

[BubberMiley]

This is an interesting piece on the reality of the life of Jewish people in Iran. Apparently the Persians have historically been more tolerant than the Arabs (no big feat, I guess).

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/23/opinion/23cohen.html?_r=1&

[On Guard for Thee]

Right, access on the ground so the UN inspectors can play hide and seek with Iranian officials.

They may be trying to sign something so that when Israel bombs them back to the stone age(which most of the country is not that far off of) then Iran can say, "Okay bitches, smoke Israel!". Ah, the games people play. I hope you're not a sucker, Guardster, you see where this can go don't you?

I'll let you in on a little secret, it won't just be UN inspectors the Iranians will have to deal with. Give ya a hint, they won't be coming from far away.