Surprise! Israel refuses cooperation with UN Gaza war probe

[Rue]

And where Hudson did I say it was good for anyone let alone an Israeli to be a good terrorist? Hmmm? Show me the memo. The repeated attempts to suggest I support terrorism done by Israelis is hilarious. salaam omar,moe,Abdul, et al.

[marcus]

Wow, there's another one. "Glow of Knowledge" Your sentence structure in that paragraph has an ESL vibe going on, and then you come up with the gem, glow of knowledge. Dude, really, stop being ashamed of who you are. There's nothing wrong with your heritage, whatever it is, quit hiding yourself from reality.

I mean I know Hudson likes to be a multiple personality type, but it only confuses your character and personality as you skulk about(maybe look that up) on the internet, shape shifting as you go from one forum to another. I understand that one needs entertainment, but once in a while you need to say no to the inner voices.

Was there an announcement that was made in regards to my ethnicity? Are you suspecting the announcement? What ethnicity am I ashamed of being? My language abilities sound like what? Is the phrase "Glow of knowledge" giving away something?

I have so many questions. Do let me know, Sharkman.

[sharkman]

I know, questions everywhere but not a drop to drink. You are a funny guy Marcus, peace be upon you.

Edited November 30, 2014 by sharkman

[jbg]

The essential question is deceptively simple, a yes or no proposition.

Does Israel have the right to exist as a Jewish state?

A lot stems from the answers to that.

Fixed.

[marcus]

Israel can officially announce that it is a racist state and has abandoned democracy with the "Jewish Nation State Bill"

Edited December 2, 2014 by marcus

[Rue]

Seems like Marcus is back to referring to Israelis and Jews as a race again. I guess that makes Palestinians a race and Arabs and Muslims too.

Then again when asked to clarify DiugFord said when people were making fun of his brother Rob for being fat and drunk that was racist according to his definition of racist so what the hell, let's just throw out the leftist trendy buzz word racist and avoid dealing with the topic. After all its another day another opportunity to sing out the mantra of piss on Israel for existing while remaining inconsistently deaf on Sharia law states. One standard for dah Jooz anudder for dah Muzlims.

[Charles Anthony]

Guys,

Stop making personal attacks. From this point onward, anybody who plays the player and not the ball will take a brief vacation.

Ch. A.

[overthere]

overthere, on 27 Nov 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

The essential question is deceptively simple, a yes or no proposition.

Does Israel have the right to exist as a Jewish state?

A lot stems from the answers to that.

Fixed.

This is another example of a refusal to answer the question, to deflect into frustration and lack of resolution. I get that is the motive of many in this argument, chiefly much of Hamas, Iran, KSA etec etc and certainly some within Israel itself. Peace is not a desired option for some.. But we don't have to do that.

Whether or not Israel chooses to be a Jewish state is secondary. Like the many Islamic and Christian states, they can call themselves whatever they wish if indeed they are a state at all.

But .... no buts.

[marcus]

Rue. You are confused and inconsistent.

Racial Discrimination has a specific meaning which has been established under the UN. The meaning has been adopted by majority of governments and even provinces in Canada:

Under the Code, every person has the right to be free from racial discrimination and harassment. You should not be treated differently because of your race or other related grounds, such as your ancestry, colour, place of origin, ethnic origin, citizenship or creed.

[overthere]

Rue. You are confused and inconsistent.

Racial Discrimination has a specific meaning which has been established under the UN. The meaning has been adopted by majority of governments and even provinces in Canada:

Under the Code, every person has the right to be free from racial discrimination and harassment. You should not be treated differently because of your race or other related grounds, such as your ancestry, colour, place of origin, ethnic origin, citizenship or creed.

How do you feel about the many Islamic Nations in the world, and the Western countries that are constitutionally Christian States, like Canada and the US? "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law"

Are they all racially discriminatory too.

Do they all deserve condemnation by the UN?

[jacee]

How do you feel about the many Islamic Nations in the world, and the Western countries that are constitutionally Christian States, like Canada and the US? "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law"

Are they all racially discriminatory too.

Do they all deserve condemnation by the UN?

I think a state has a right to call itself whatever it wants.

Demanding that others recognize its religious nature - external validation - not required.

.

[Rue]

Marcus you quoted a definition that does not back up your use of racism in the context of the conflict between Israel and Palestine. If anyone is confused its you. You might want to use a quote that doesn't prove you are wrong. Read it back.

Israelis are not a race and neither are Palestinians. If anything both are semites, the same people descended from people who lived in the Arabian peninsula area. Semites are not even a race. They are a mix of many things. What makes them semites is many other things such as language, culture, genetic connections.

Race is an idiotic word/ To still use it today is moronic. Race started as a subjective description of pople'ssecondary characteristics such as skin colour, hair texture, nose structure. It was thought there were three races, Caucasians, negroids and mongoloids.

Science has since proven that nonsensical showing a black and white person could have more in common genetically than two whites.

Today race is used when we refer to for example discrimination against someone because of their physical characteristics.

When people like you use it and throw it out with a quote that doesn't even justify how you use it then I have to ask why?

Why do you think the very quote you used went on to clarify with other categories? Can you please read it back.

Israelis and Palestinans are two national groups. Their political dispute has nothing to do with race and everything to do with competing nationalist identities.

When Abbas and Hamas and the Arab League of Nations refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish state they refuse to acknowledge that Jews have a right to a national identity. They specifically do so because their religious beliefs and interpretation of Muslim have taught them a Jew can not have the same legal rights as a Muslim-this is Sharia Law,Muslim law which is not separated from state law in Muslim states.

Muslim states codify by a state structure the imposition of Muslim religion on all. In the case of non Muslims, the state laws define Jews as inferior unable to own land or ever enjoy the same rights as a Muslim. Thus the notion a Jew could have a state where they would be equal to a Muslim is not to be recognized. it is a religious dispute and a nationalist dispute.

The whole point of a Jewish state is to define being a Jew not just as a religion but as a state entity and national identity. Being a Jew or Arab is not the dispute. Palestinians do not deny Jews exist as a collective.They refer to them as a collective in the Koran.

What they dispute is their right to be a state. That is not racism, its anti Zionism. It is a mix of religious and political disputes.

Israel does not deny Palestinians are Muslims nor does it deny they are Arabs. Half of Israel are Jewish Arabs or Mizrahi. They are all the same people. The dispute for Israel is not about race or being an Arab its about Palestinians today embracing terrorism and refusing to recognize the right of Jews to have a Jewish state.

The refusal is very clear. It is based on the belief that one day Muslims will outnumber Jews in Israel and turn it into a Muslim state.

The PA and Arab League will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state because they fear if they do, it will preclude their argument that anyone who refers to himself as a Palestinian as long as they are not a Jew, should be able to return to Israel today.

This game of saying you recognize Israel but not as a Jewish state, is just semantics.

All Muslim states in their constitutions define themselves as Muslim states. The Palestinian constitution demands it be a Muslim state.

The Hamas constitution demands a Muslim state world wide, with one Muslim clergy council running it.

The Hamas constitution which is identical to the constitutions of al Quaeda and ISIL call for a one world Muslim caliphate.

Race as a construct only refers to physical characteristics. That is not what is being disputed.

Israel creates a Jewish state not because it thinks Palestinians are dark skinned or have big noses. Ridiculous.

It created a state to assure Jews would be protected by the state from discrimination by Muslims and Christians.It was an existential response to the holocaust, thousands of years of persecution in Europe and the Middle East.

Had Islam not defined Jews as khafir and dhimmi and institutionalized the apartheid regime of dhimmitude reducing Jews to inferiors constantly harassed and forced to pay a fee just to live and had Christians not persecuted Jews as long as they did, Jews would not have had to create a state as a refuge.

They had no choice. When faced with extermination, Jews took a last stand.

Its a stand you can not accept. You have been taught a Jew is not your equal and can never have a state. Your discriminatory double standard is based on a discriminatory concept about Jews. You will not accept Jews as a collective whose identity is expressed through a state and you can't accept the fact a Jew is not inferior to a Muslim which comes from religious beliefs.

So not you are confused not me. To try revive the Israel is racist canard is tiresome but expected.

[dre]

Marcus you quoted a definition that does not back up your use of racism in the context of the conflict between Israel and Palestine. If anyone is confused its you. You might want to use a quote that doesn't prove you are wrong. Read it back.

Israelis are not a race and neither are Palestinians. If anything both are semites, the same people descended from people who lived in the Arabian peninsula area. Semites are not even a race. They are a mix of many things. What makes them semites is many other things such as language, culture, genetic connections.

Race is an idiotic word/ To still use it today is moronic. Race started as a subjective description of pople'ssecondary characteristics such as skin colour, hair texture, nose structure. It was thought there were three races, Caucasians, negroids and mongoloids.

Science has since proven that nonsensical showing a black and white person could have more in common genetically than two whites.

Today race is used when we refer to for example discrimination against someone because of their physical characteristics.

When people like you use it and throw it out with a quote that doesn't even justify how you use it then I have to ask why?

Why do you think the very quote you used went on to clarify with other categories? Can you please read it back.

Israelis and Palestinans are two national groups. Their political dispute has nothing to do with race and everything to do with competing nationalist identities.

When Abbas and Hamas and the Arab League of Nations refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish state they refuse to acknowledge that Jews have a right to a national identity. They specifically do so because their religious beliefs and interpretation of Muslim have taught them a Jew can not have the same legal rights as a Muslim-this is Sharia Law,Muslim law which is not separated from state law in Muslim states.

Muslim states codify by a state structure the imposition of Muslim religion on all. In the case of non Muslims, the state laws define Jews as inferior unable to own land or ever enjoy the same rights as a Muslim. Thus the notion a Jew could have a state where they would be equal to a Muslim is not to be recognized. it is a religious dispute and a nationalist dispute.

The whole point of a Jewish state is to define being a Jew not just as a religion but as a state entity and national identity. Being a Jew or Arab is not the dispute. Palestinians do not deny Jews exist as a collective.They refer to them as a collective in the Koran.

What they dispute is their right to be a state. That is not racism, its anti Zionism. It is a mix of religious and political disputes.

Israel does not deny Palestinians are Muslims nor does it deny they are Arabs. Half of Israel are Jewish Arabs or Mizrahi. They are all the same people. The dispute for Israel is not about race or being an Arab its about Palestinians today embracing terrorism and refusing to recognize the right of Jews to have a Jewish state.

The refusal is very clear. It is based on the belief that one day Muslims will outnumber Jews in Israel and turn it into a Muslim state.

The PA and Arab League will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state because they fear if they do, it will preclude their argument that anyone who refers to himself as a Palestinian as long as they are not a Jew, should be able to return to Israel today.

This game of saying you recognize Israel but not as a Jewish state, is just semantics.

All Muslim states in their constitutions define themselves as Muslim states. The Palestinian constitution demands it be a Muslim state.

The Hamas constitution demands a Muslim state world wide, with one Muslim clergy council running it.

The Hamas constitution which is identical to the constitutions of al Quaeda and ISIL call for a one world Muslim caliphate.

Race as a construct only refers to physical characteristics. That is not what is being disputed.

Israel creates a Jewish state not because it thinks Palestinians are dark skinned or have big noses. Ridiculous.

It created a state to assure Jews would be protected by the state from discrimination by Muslims and Christians.It was an existential response to the holocaust, thousands of years of persecution in Europe and the Middle East.

Had Islam not defined Jews as khafir and dhimmi and institutionalized the apartheid regime of dhimmitude reducing Jews to inferiors constantly harassed and forced to pay a fee just to live and had Christians not persecuted Jews as long as they did, Jews would not have had to create a state as a refuge.

They had no choice. When faced with extermination, Jews took a last stand.

Its a stand you can not accept. You have been taught a Jew is not your equal and can never have a state. Your discriminatory double standard is based on a discriminatory concept about Jews. You will not accept Jews as a collective whose identity is expressed through a state and you can't accept the fact a Jew is not inferior to a Muslim which comes from religious beliefs.

So not you are confused not me. To try revive the Israel is racist canard is tiresome but expected.

This is all just irrelevant nonsense. If the worry is that eventually muslims in Israel will outnumber jews, then some token recognition by Abbas or any other arab leaders will do nothing to change it anyways.

The fact is, this demand is relatively new, and its put in place as a poison pill to attempt to ward off any kind of negotiated peace.

The reality is that all thats required is for palestinians to recognize Israel is a state with the right to excersize sovereignty over its territory, and control its own borders. The religious nature of Israel is not something that should be made an issue for anyone but Israeli citizens. Its nobody elses business... And nobody else cares.

[Rue]

Dre stated:

"The reality is that all thats required is for palestinians to recognize Israel is a state with the right to excersize sovereignty over its territory, and control its own borders. The religious nature of Israel is not something that should be made an issue for anyone but Israeli citizens. Its nobody elses business... And nobody else cares."

While I agree in theory that the religious nature of Israel is nobody else's business reality says otherwise.

Hamas, Abbas and the Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian Front For the Liberation of Palestine, Intifada Palestine, Palestinian Kihad, Al Quaeda, ISIL, Hezbollah, Iran have all made the religion of Israel their business.

They have made it clear they do not believe Israel should be a Jewish state and will never recognize it as a Jewish state and by so doing, they made it their business.

They make it their business every day they condone and assist attacks on Israel precisely because its jewish.

The reality is Hamas has a constitution calling for the murder of Jews world wide and not just in Israel. Their constitution makes it their business to commit a holy war against Jews not just Israelis.

Mr. Abbas made the religion of Israel his business. He stated, not once but many times, he would never accept Israel as a Jewish state because if he did that, it would preclude Palestinian non Jews from being able to return to Israel and become the majority of Israelis thereby then being able to turn it into a Sharia law state.

He has told his assembly time and time again, Israel and the West Bank and Gaza as well as Jordan must form one SHARIA LAW state. That is his platform repeated over and over again.

So he made it his business. He also has a constitution that makes it clear Jews can not be Palestinian citizens in Palestine under any circumstance so the 100,000 Jews who do not recognize Israel as a Jewish state, are put into that category as well and those 100,000 ultra orthodox Jews who condemn Israel as a state that can not exist since the Messiah has not returned are not to be recognized as Palestinians.

Abbas has made it his business to state he has no problem with Sharia Law Muslim states but does have a problem with a Jewish state. Well I have a problem with that double standard.

I also have a problem with your attempt to recreate reality and pretend Abbas, Hamas and the plethora of terrorist anti Israeli cells and Iran have not made it their business to over and over again state it is their business to end a Jewish state and in Iran's case by force and in Hamas's case by terror.

Iran has called for a referendum by non Israeli Palestinians to vote Israel's Jews out of state existence. Iran's head stated no Israeli Jew could vote in this referendum. he made it his business.

The very existence of Israel for Israelis depends on it being Jewish. If its not, it becomes a Sharia law state whose constitution defines Jews as inferior or in the case of Hamas demands they all be removed from existence.

Thanks but the choice of being either killed by Hamas or dhimmi-khafir to Abbas sticks their nose into Israel's business.

Israel needs to be recognized as a Jewish state for this bullshit to stop. If the Arab League acknowledges its Jewish nature and disarms terrorists, then Israel can pull its citizens out of the West Bank.

Until then this is a pile of horse crap and Obama the latest bafoon to dare tell Israel they have no right to be recognized as a Jewish state, should take his presumptious, patronizing, condescending, Muslim Brotherhood bias, and shove it.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Rue

[marcus]

More Obama. More Muslim Brotherhood. More it's everyone else's fault but not Israel's.

Being accepted as a Jewish State is relatively new on the list of excuses Israel has been using to delay allowing a Palestinian State to happen. There is always an excuse. Like Israel's Jewishness has anything to do with the international green line when it comes to the borders of Israel and Palestine.

Israel has a history of moving the line in the sand. The more delay, the more Israel is able to annex Palestinian land. Looking at all the land Israel has annexed in East Jerusalem and the West Bank since the Oslo deal, is enough evidence that Palestinians and the world cannot wait for Israel. Israel should be sidelined and a binding agreement should be made in the UN for a Palestinian state to be formed.

Oh and the BDS movement should continue until it brings Israel to its knees, like it brought Apartheid South Africa to its knees.

[jbg]

Rue. You are confused and inconsistent.

Racial Discrimination has a specific meaning which has been established under the UN. The meaning has been adopted by majority of governments and even provinces in Canada:

Under the Code, every person has the right to be free from racial discrimination and harassment. You should not be treated differently because of your race or other related grounds, such as your ancestry, colour, place of origin, ethnic origin, citizenship or creed.

Marcus, I have a simple question: Do Gaza, the Islamic State, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Qatar, and numerous states I am probably leavign out even remotely follow these rules which you have so nobly set out?

[jbg]

The fact is, this demand is relatively new, and its put in place as a poison pill to attempt to ward off any kind of negotiated peace.

After Arafat's "poison pill" demand of a "right of return" of descendants of refugees.

[jacee]

Dre stated:

"The reality is that all thats required is for palestinians to recognize Israel is a state with the right to excersize sovereignty over its territory, and control its own borders. The religious nature of Israel is not something that should be made an issue for anyone but Israeli citizens. Its nobody elses business... And nobody else cares."

While I agree in theory that the religious nature of Israel is nobody else's business reality says otherwise.

Hamas, Abbas and the Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian Front For the Liberation of Palestine, Intifada Palestine, Palestinian Kihad, Al Quaeda, ISIL, Hezbollah, Iran have all made the religion of Israel their business.

They have made it clear they do not believe Israel should be a Jewish state and will never recognize it as a Jewish state and by so doing, they made it their business.

They make it their business every day they condone and assist attacks on Israel precisely because its jewish.

The reality is Hamas has a constitution calling for the murder of Jews world wide and not just in Israel. Their constitution makes it their business to commit a holy war against Jews not just Israelis.

Mr. Abbas made the religion of Israel his business. He stated, not once but many times, he would never accept Israel as a Jewish state because if he did that, it would preclude Palestinian non Jews from being able to return to Israel and become the majority of Israelis thereby then being able to turn it into a Sharia law state.

He has told his assembly time and time again, Israel and the West Bank and Gaza as well as Jordan must form one SHARIA LAW state. That is his platform repeated over and over again.

So he made it his business. He also has a constitution that makes it clear Jews can not be Palestinian citizens in Palestine under any circumstance so the 100,000 Jews who do not recognize Israel as a Jewish state, are put into that category as well and those 100,000 ultra orthodox Jews who condemn Israel as a state that can not exist since the Messiah has not returned are not to be recognized as Palestinians.

Abbas has made it his business to state he has no problem with Sharia Law Muslim states but does have a problem with a Jewish state. Well I have a problem with that double standard.

I also have a problem with your attempt to recreate reality and pretend Abbas, Hamas and the plethora of terrorist anti Israeli cells and Iran have not made it their business to over and over again state it is their business to end a Jewish state and in Iran's case by force and in Hamas's case by terror.

Iran has called for a referendum by non Israeli Palestinians to vote Israel's Jews out of state existence. Iran's head stated no Israeli Jew could vote in this referendum. he made it his business.

The very existence of Israel for Israelis depends on it being Jewish. If its not, it becomes a Sharia law state whose constitution defines Jews as inferior or in the case of Hamas demands they all be removed from existence.

Thanks but the choice of being either killed by Hamas or dhimmi-khafir to Abbas sticks their nose into Israel's business.

Israel needs to be recognized as a Jewish state for this bullshit to stop. If the Arab League acknowledges its Jewish nature and disarms terrorists, then Israel can pull its citizens out of the West Bank.

Until then this is a pile of horse crap and Obama the latest bafoon to dare tell Israel they have no right to be recognized as a Jewish state, should take his presumptious, patronizing, condescending, Muslim Brotherhood bias, and shove it.

Deliberately obtuse again.

Nobody has to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

.

[Big Guy]

That latest Israeli expedition into Gaza is still creating problems in Israel;

From a report from a UN doctor;

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/12/qa-i-saw-beheaded-children-gaza-201412710710149667.html

To an attempt by the Israeli military to investigate itself in actions taken;

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/12/israel-opens-new-investigations-into-gaza-war-201412792342300670.html

That latest incursion ended with Israel apparently winning it in a blowout with a score of:

Israel - 2,100 Palestinians killed, mostly civilians.

Gaza - 66 Israeli soldiers and 6 civilians killed.

The rest of the world is still trying to decide on who won this latest battle.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Big Guy

[jbg]

That latest incursion ended with Israel apparently winning it in a blowout with a score of:

Israel - 2,100 Palestinians killed, mostly civilians.

Gaza - 66 Israeli soldiers and 6 civilians killed.

The rest of the world is still trying to decide on who won this latest battle.

When what passes for Hamas/Gaza "leadership" foments the killing of three kidnapped students in Israel what do they think is going to happen? If those students hadn't been killed would your post ever have been made?

[jbg]

Deliberately obtuse again.

Nobody has to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

.

But any treaty must impicitly recognize its character.

[jacee]

But any treaty must impicitly recognize its character.

I don't think that's common practice, no.

.

[jacee]

After all its another day another opportunity to sing out the mantra of piss on Israel for existing while remaining inconsistently deaf on Sharia law states. One standard for dah Jooz anudder for dah Muzlims.

Are any other states required to recognize "Sharia law states" as such, rather than the norm of simply recognizing them as states?

.

[jbg]

I don't think that's common practice, no.

.

Are any other states required to recognize "Sharia law states" as such, rather than the norm of simply recognizing them as states?

.

The Arab countries and Palestine under Arafat put Israel's status as a Jewish state in issue. Maybe they should be sorry they asked.

[marcus]

Marcus, I have a simple question: Do Gaza, the Islamic State, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Qatar, and numerous states I am probably leavign out even remotely follow these rules which you have so nobly set out?

Who cares? Does Israel use those countries and territories as examples of what it wants to be? Is that what you're trying to say?

A true democracy would not allow this to happen:

Israel's religious Jews get more school funds than, Arabs, seculars Arab high school students from weak socioeconomic backgrounds receive 42% less ministry funding than Jews from a similar background, data shows.

Link