Coyne Savages Trudeau

[bush_cheney2004]

...Let's try and be leaders here on the world stage and attempt to actually be at the forefront of humanitarian efforts instead of at the back end of military strength.

Go ahead...the world waits for Canada's strong leadership, resolve, and resources to win the day with humanitarian aid....just like in Rwanda.

[PrimeNumber]

Go ahead...the world waits for Canada's strong leadership, resolve, and resources to win the day with humanitarian aid....just like in Rwanda.

Yeah because America did so much to help the situation... Everywhere your country goes it leaves a swath of death and destruction.

I'll admit Rwanda was a failure but we will learn from our mistakes.

America has never learned from theirs and will probably continue to make mistakes at the cost of thousands of lives.

The conservatives will never provide us with strong leadership, resolve and resources to win the day with humanitarian aid. So as long as Harper is in power I will have to agree with you. That will all change soon though. We can provide only what our failed leader allows us too.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah because America did so much to help the situation... Everywhere your country goes it leaves a swath of death and destruction.

I'll admit Rwanda was a failure but we will learn from our mistakes.

Great...here is yet another chance for Canada to lead the world and have all other nations fall in line. It will be different this time....humanitarian aid will flow on a grand scale with Canada leading the way...no more getting embarrassed by the U.S. NGOs or military getting aid to victims of disasters much faster than Canada (e.g. 2009 Indonesian tsunami).

America has never learned from theirs and will probably continue to make mistakes at the cost of thousands of lives.

The conservatives will never provide us with strong leadership, resolve and resources to win the day with humanitarian aid. So as long as Harper is in power I will have to agree with you. That will all change soon though. We can provide only what our failed leader allows us too.

Such negative thoughts...we all know just how much better things were when the Liberals controlled the government. Rwanda...Kosovo...Haiti...all glorious displays of humanitarian aid. Damn those Americans for making Canada do bad things !

[jbg]

Ouch! I wonder if Trudeau changes his tune by Monday, this kind of commentary cannot go unanswered...

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/10/03/andrew-coyne-if-liberals-wont-support-limited-action-against-isis-what-kind-of-mission-would-they-support/

"We know why the NDP is opposed. It has consistently opposed any Canadian participation in any military action since the Second World War. Tom Mulcair’s speech to the Commons was a feast of red herrings, irrelevant historical anecdotes and pointed mentions of “the U.S.,” but what it boiled down to was: we say this is war and we say the hell with it.

But the Liberal leader, Justin Trudeau, has taken a rather different position — or rather positions. When the idea of an international military campaign against ISIS was first proposed last month, he spoke in favour of Canadian participation; now he is against it, having spent the intervening weeks saying he was undecided. Fair enough. Positions evolve. Only he still is not opposed to military intervention in principle: only to Canada taking part in it. And he has not begun to explain why"

Sort of like Kerry's position; he was for it until he was against it? That hurt him in 2004.

[jbg]

Yeah because America did so much to help the situation... Everywhere your country goes it leaves a swath of death and destruction.

Oh really? From the words of a Canadian, perhaps one a bit prouder than you (link):

The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French, and

British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in

West Germany.

It has declined there by 41 since 1971, and this Canadian

thinks it's time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and

possibly the least appreciated people in all the world.

As long as sixty

years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on

the Yellow River and the Yangtze.

Well, who rushed in with men and money

to help?

The Americans did, that's who.

They have helped control floods

on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges, and the Niger.

Today, the rich bottom land of the Mississippi is underwater, and no foreign land has sent

a dollar to help.

Germany, Japan, and to a lesser extent Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in

billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts.

None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the

United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and

swindled on the streets of Paris--and I was there, I saw that.

When distant cities are hit by earthquake, it's the United States that hurries

in to help; Managua, Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples.

So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by

tornadoes--nobody has helped.

The Marshall Plan, the Truman Policy--all

pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries, and

now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, war-mongering Americans. Now, I'd like to see just one of those countries

that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build it's own airplanes.

Come on, now you--lets hear it!

Does any country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing jumbo jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas Ten.

If so, why dont they fly them? Why do all

international lines except Russia fly American planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or a woman on the moon? You

talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios.

You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles.

You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times, and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put

theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at.

Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded.

Theyre right here on our streets in Toronto. Most of them, unless theyre breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend up here.

When the Americans get out of this bind, as they will, who could blame

them if they said to hell with the rest of the world.

Let somebody else buy the bonds.

Let somebody else build or repair foreign dams, or design foreign buildings that wont shake apart in earthquakes.

When the railways of France and Germany and India were breaking down through age,

it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and

the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose.

Both of them are still broke.

I can name to you five thousand times when the

Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.

Can you name to me even one time when someone raced to the help of the Americans in

trouble?

I dont think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone.

And Im one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around.

Theyll come out of this thing with their flag high, and when they do, theyre entitled

to thumb their noses at the lands that are gloating over their present trouble.

I hope Canada is not one of these.

But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians.

And finally, the American Red Cross was told at

it's 48th annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.

This years disasters, with the year less than half over, have taken it

all, and nobody, but nobody, has helped. --

http://www.whosampled.com/Gordon-Sinclair/The-Americans-(A-Canadian%27s-Opinion)/

Edited October 6, 2014 by jbg

[PrimeNumber]

Great...here is yet another chance for Canada to lead the world and have all other nations fall in line. It will be different this time....humanitarian aid will flow on a grand scale with Canada leading the way...no more getting embarrassed by the U.S. NGOs or military getting aid to victims of disasters much faster than Canada (e.g. 2009 Indonesian tsunami).

Such negative thoughts...we all know just how much better things were when the Liberals controlled the government. Rwanda...Kosovo...Haiti...all glorious displays of humanitarian aid. Damn those Americans for making Canada do bad things !

Hahaha you seem to be the pessimist here. You're picking on a country that has roughly the population of Texas, a single state in yours. We will do what we can with the government and resources we have. We just don't have the people or the money to do what you can, but we will try to pave our own way, not follow yours. If the Conservatives were in power nothing would have happened then either and you can't prove that it would have. Harper was gung-ho to lead Canada into Iraq the first time, so we could do as the Americans do. Well me and every other Canadian on this planet are damn happy that didn't happen.

[On Guard for Thee]

Hahaha you seem to be the pessimist here. You're picking on a country that has roughly the population of Texas, a single state in yours. We will do what we can with the government and resources we have. We just don't have the people or the money to do what you can, but we will try to pave our own way, not follow yours. If the Conservatives were in power nothing would have happened then either and you can't prove that it would have. Harper was gung-ho to lead Canada into Iraq the first time, so we could do as the Americans do. Well me and every other Canadian on this planet are damn happy that didn't happen.

Correct. Otherwise we would have to live with Bush_Cheney_Chretien being war criminals. Who needs that on their resume?

[PrimeNumber]

Oh really? From the words of a Canadian, perhaps one a bit prouder than you (link):

The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French, and

British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in

West Germany.

It has declined there by 41 since 1971, and this Canadian

thinks it's time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and

possibly the least appreciated people in all the world.

As long as sixty

years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on

the Yellow River and the Yangtze.

Well, who rushed in with men and money

to help?

The Americans did, that's who.

They have helped control floods

on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges, and the Niger.

Today, the rich bottom land of the Mississippi is underwater, and no foreign land has sent

a dollar to help.

Germany, Japan, and to a lesser extent Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in

billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts.

None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the

United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and

swindled on the streets of Paris--and I was there, I saw that.

When distant cities are hit by earthquake, it's the United States that hurries

in to help; Managua, Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples.

So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by

tornadoes--nobody has helped.

The Marshall Plan, the Truman Policy--all

pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries, and

now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, war-mongering Americans. Now, I'd like to see just one of those countries

that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build it's own airplanes.

Come on, now you--lets hear it!

Does any country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing jumbo jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas Ten.

If so, why dont they fly them? Why do all

international lines except Russia fly American planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or a woman on the moon? You

talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios.

You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles.

You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times, and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put

theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at.

Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded.

Theyre right here on our streets in Toronto. Most of them, unless theyre breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend up here.

When the Americans get out of this bind, as they will, who could blame

them if they said to hell with the rest of the world.

Let somebody else buy the bonds.

Let somebody else build or repair foreign dams, or design foreign buildings that wont shake apart in earthquakes.

When the railways of France and Germany and India were breaking down through age,

it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and

the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose.

Both of them are still broke.

I can name to you five thousand times when the

Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.

Can you name to me even one time when someone raced to the help of the Americans in

trouble?

I dont think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone.

And Im one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around.

Theyll come out of this thing with their flag high, and when they do, theyre entitled

to thumb their noses at the lands that are gloating over their present trouble.

I hope Canada is not one of these.

But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians.

And finally, the American Red Cross was told at

it's 48th annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.

This years disasters, with the year less than half over, have taken it

all, and nobody, but nobody, has helped. --

http://www.whosampled.com/Gordon-Sinclair/The-Americans-(A-Canadian%27s-Opinion)/

More chest thumping from Americans, we have come to expect nothing less. I'm sure you were holding your little American flag and saluting your computer while you copy and pasted it...

[PrimeNumber]

Correct. Otherwise we would have to live with Bush_Cheney_Chretien being war criminals. Who needs that on their resume?

Chretien may not have been the best PM we have ever had, but at least he didn't lead us into an illegal, immoral and failed war.

[bush_cheney2004]

... Well me and every other Canadian on this planet are damn happy that didn't happen.

That's patently false...there were Canadians who supported the invasion of Iraq...notably the previous leader of the Liberal party and renown American wannabe...who scampered right back to Harvard after he was turfed....Mr. Michael Ignatieff.

Lead Canada....lead...the world will surely follow ! Use those American built CC-177 Globemasters instead of those American built CF-18s !!

[bush_cheney2004]

Chretien may not have been the best PM we have ever had, but at least he didn't lead us into an illegal, immoral and failed war.

PM Chretien illegally bombed Serbia...he is a war criminal !

[On Guard for Thee]

PM Chretien illegally bombed Serbia...he is a war criminal !

No he's not. And you need to get your history straight. Chretien was PM and he said no to your namesakes. Harper supported it, but then he is one of them that right wing rednecks apparently. He's gonna git to Iraq one way or t'uther.

[PrimeNumber]

That's patently false...there were Canadians who supported the invasion of Iraq...notably the previous leader of the Liberal party and renown American wannabe...who scampered right back to Harvard after he was turfed....Mr. Michael Ignatieff.

Lead Canada....lead...the world will surely follow ! Use those American built CC-177 Globemasters instead of those American built CF-18s !!

You're funny. Ignatieff is an idiot, you can keep him. He fits in over there.

America, the hub of the Industrial Arms Industry. Be proud.

[bush_cheney2004]

You're funny. Ignatieff is an idiot, you can keep him. He fits in over there.

America, the hub of the Industrial Arms Industry. Be proud.

I am...forgot to mention Canada's American built CC-130s too....thanks for reminding me. Now where is that world leadership ? Lead us to the humanitarian promised land. Show us what "soft power" can do !!

[jbg]

More chest thumping from Americans, we have come to expect nothing less. I'm sure you were holding your little American flag and saluting your computer while you copy and pasted it...

Gordon Sinclair was a Canadian, not an American. And how dare you ridicule my flag, my country or my patriotism. If the U.S. didn't exist I wouldn't exist. My ancestors would have been gassed or shot.

[jbg]

You're funny. Ignatieff is an idiot, you can keep him. He fits in over there.

America, the hub of the Industrial Arms Industry. Be proud.

Trudeau the Smarter (to be distinguished from his imbecilic son) went to Harvard Law School.

[PrimeNumber]

No he's not. And you need to get your history straight. Chretien was PM and he said no to your namesakes. Harper supported it, but then he is one of them that right wing rednecks apparently. He's gonna git to Iraq one way or t'uther.

In the spring of 1999, Chrétien supported Canada's involvement in NATO's bombing campaign of Yugoslavia over the issue of Kosovo, even through the operation was unsanctioned by the UN Security Council thanks to a Russian veto of an Anglo-American resolution asking for the Security Council's approval of the NATO bombing. The idea of bombing Yugoslavia caused some discomfort within the ranks of the Liberal party as the NATO campaign effectively meant supporting Kosovo separatists against a government determined to prevent Kosovo's secession from Yugoslavia. Chrétien was personally uncomfortable with the idea of bombing Yugoslavia, but supported the war because he valued good relations with the United States far more than he cared about Yugoslavia

Another PM doing things to garner good relations with Uncle Sam. It's high time we have a PM who thinks for himself. The hell with America.

[PrimeNumber]

Trudeau the Smarter (to be distinguished from his imbecilic son) went to Harvard Law School.

aaannnnnd your point?

[bush_cheney2004]

Trudeau the Smarter (to be distinguished from his imbecilic son) went to Harvard Law School.

Really ? Didn't Quebec have a decent law school ?

[PrimeNumber]

Gordon Sinclair was a Canadian, not an American. And how dare you ridicule my flag, my country or my patriotism. If the U.S. didn't exist I wouldn't exist. My ancestors would have been gassed or shot.

I wasn't talking about the person who wrote it, I was talking about the person who posted it on this forum, which is you. Get over yourself, your country and your flag. It's no more important than anyone else's. When America realizes that, the rest of the world may actually begin to start liking you. Instead you sit in your bubble of a country thinking everyone else is here to serve your causes.

[PrimeNumber]

Really ? Didn't Quebec have a decent law school ?

Actually Trudeau SR. earned his law degree at the Université de Montréal in 1943. So yes, I suppose they did.

[jbg]

Another PM doing things to garner good relations with Uncle Sam. It's high time we have a PM who thinks for himself. The hell with America.

Chretien was no pal of Clinton's successor. Remember the "open mike." Ducrois?

[jbg]

Actually Trudeau SR. earned his law degree at the Université de Montréal in 1943. So yes, I suppose they did.

Then why was he at Harvard Law School?

[bush_cheney2004]

...Instead you sit in your bubble of a country thinking everyone else is here to serve your causes.

Nah...for now we are happy to read about Canadians fighting the CRTC and CanCon rules so they can watch more American media content. LOL!

[jbg]

Then why was he at Harvard Law School?

Correction, his degree at Harvard was in political economy, not law. The book, Trudeau, Son of Quebec, Father of Canada may have had it wrong.