waldo Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Does it mater? Trudeau doesn't care about abuses towards women...... really? So you're so entrenched in your loaded question fallacy that you're willing to double-down on it? You're textbook... following right into the innuendo extension of your loaded question. What size is your wife-beater shirt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Is this the preview of a PM Trudeau........Women and Children being raped and murdered, but he doesn't feel there is a case for action against those that perpetrate such crimes.....brilliant!!! So you'd be 100% behind him if he announced his intention to invade North Korea from it's totalitarian ruler and liberate Africa from it's warlords for their crimes against humanity,and especially women and children? How about if he announced intentions to start taking action against those who militarily and financially support dictatorships in which women and children are raped, murdered, and abused everyday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'm sure the women and children in Iraq being raped and murdered feels this one has already turned to shit........The same women and children Trudeau doesn't feel justify Western military action to aid the Iraqi Government in stopping. Don't you find it a bit silly to just keep on trying to trash Trudeau with such ridiculous suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 So you'd be 100% behind him if he announced his intention to invade North Korea from it's totalitarian ruler and liberate Africa from it's warlords for their crimes against humanity,and especially women and children? It doesn't sound like such action will be required...........But if any Government requested such aid, to the best of our ability, it should be forthwith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Oh yeah, when Kim Jung Un calls I hope we are ready to respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Don't you find it a bit silly to just keep on trying to trash Trudeau with such ridiculous suggestions? Are you suggesting Trudeau will support military action to help stop the Iraqi genocide of women and children? Clearly stating genocide of women and children isn't a case for action is ridiculous........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Are you suggesting Trudeau will support military action to help stop the Iraqi genocide of women and children? Clearly stating genocide of women and children isn't a case for action is ridiculous........ Attempting to state that Trudeau made such a statement is totally ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Attempting to state that Trudeau made such a statement is totally ridiculous. Did you not state: He quite clearly stated that Harper had not made the case for military action. Genocide against women and children is not a case for military action? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Did you not state: Genocide against women and children is not a case for military action? Making the case means a little more than just saying that there are bad things hapenning somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Making the case means a little more than just saying that there are bad things hapenning somewhere. Define a "little more"........What more is needed to know that the rape and murder of women and children is a "bad thing"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Define a "little more"........What more is needed to know that the rape and murder of women and children is a "bad thing"? Yep, we all know rape and murder is a bad thing. We could send those F 18's a lot of places to confront that kind of thing. How do we percieve that they will stop that kind of thing in this particular situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) Conservatives are all on board to start a military campaign against a terrorist faction in Iraq because of atrocities they have committed but all over the world atrocities have been happening, for example in the DRC where massive atrocities against African people have been happening to the tune of over 5 million dead since 1998. You can google the atrocities yourself, which make ISIL look like schoolyard hooligans. You don't see a single conservative supporter, why you may ask? Good question, hundreds of thousands of african CHRISTIAN children have been mutilated and murdered, not so much a peep from the conservative government, in fact the last time the conservatives mentioned it was well over 3 years ago. It seems the only times conservatives are in to fight a war against an enemy is when the enemy isn't supplying the world with their resources. Nay America, with their resources. It's like their trained to salivate at the sound of a bell. You want real military actions lets go into the Congo and rid the world of one of the most militant, murderous factions we have had in decades, while the Americans invite them over for dinner. Or we can focus on Iraq because they are ruining the flow of oil to the west by selling it to Russia, or China or whats worse Kurdish businessmen. The world, and mostly Canadian conservatives and republican backwards thinking Americans, act in mysterious ways. Edited October 5, 2014 by PrimeNumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) Bravo, but the Americans have settled far more refugees...war or no war. Welcome back to the "Bomb Iraq" club, just like Canada did in 1991. Supply me with sufficient data that you have settled more Iraqi refugees before your failed Iraq invasions of 2003 and I will agree. Sure you've settled more after the fact, and rightly so. Your country caused this mess in the first place you should be settling ALL of them. It's our Honour and Canada's conscious, something America lacks, that humbles us in settling refugees from a FAILED war you started. Edited October 5, 2014 by PrimeNumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) It just drives me crazy how conservative supporters are on board for something that's happening in a certain part of the world because their leaders tell them to support it. But have no idea whats happening in another because their leaders don't care. It's bat shittery. Edited October 5, 2014 by PrimeNumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Supply me with sufficient data that you have settled more Iraqi refugees before your failed Iraq invasions of 2003 and I will agree. Sure you've settled more after the fact, and rightly so. Your country caused this mess in the first place you should be settling ALL of them. It's our Honour and Canada's conscious, something America lacks, that humbles us in settling refugees from a FAILED war you started. One needn't care if you agree or not....the world's refugees and emigres have always beaten a path to America more than Canada. I think you mean "conscience", not "conscious"....neither matter. It's the least Canada (or the USA) can do after bombing them during Gulf War 1, enforcing UN sanctions, strangling Iraq's economy, and chasing after oil services contracts. Such an "Honour" !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 What is there to decipher? Anyone with even half a brain can figure it out. I'm sorry, but I put little credence in what people with half a brain think they've figured out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 why do you beat your wife? Pretty pathetic response. After all, it can't really be argued that Trudeau's position on genocide IS inaction. I.e. he has stated it is not our problem, but that perhaps we can send some moist toilettes over to help clear up the blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 So you'd be 100% behind him if he announced his intention to invade North Korea from it's totalitarian ruler and liberate Africa from it's warlords for their crimes against humanity,and especially women and children? So is it your position that if we are unable to take action against, say, organized crime figures, we are hypocrites to arrest burglars, rapists, robbers and thieves? Or even mere ordinary murderers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Conservatives are all on board to start a military campaign against a terrorist faction in Iraq because of atrocities they have committed but all over the world atrocities have been happening, for example in the DRC where massive atrocities against African All that is being proposed is air strikes. Given the terrain there, and the purpose of air strikes being to take out the armor and heavy weapons (and command and control facilities) this is a reasonable mission. Air strikes would be useless in the DRC. Instead the west is largely funding an African intervention force there. No one would support us sending an army in to fight in Iraq any more than they would in the DRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Conservatives are all on board to start a military campaign against a terrorist faction in Iraq because of atrocities they have committed but all over the world atrocities have been happening, for example in the DRC where massive atrocities against African people have been happening to the tune of over 5 million dead since 1998. An argument can be made that the world could do more for the bloodshed that has gone on in Africa for decades - if not for centuries. But that argument pales in comparison to the reality of ISIS - an expansionist movement whose goal is the subjugation or elimination of anyone who does not bow to their twisted ideology. If allowed to expand and consolidate unchecked, the entire Middle East could be enslaved - and imbued with the murderously paranoid hatred of the "apostate" world - and that includes us right here. To think that once that expanded base is established - that these crazed lunatics would not infiltrate Western countries and slowly kill them from the inside-out - is Neville Chamberlain thinking at it's most perilous. Africa has no such stated desire as they continue to fight among themselves within their own borders - for now. One can argue till the cows come home about how we ended up where we are - and how they ended up being what they are......but to stand aside and do nothing will - without any doubt - drastically increase the bloodshed and price we'll have to pay a few short years from now. When even the Arab states are chipping in to stop these thugs, only the willfully blind and the meekest of pacifists could deny that we are facing a clear and present danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Africa has no such stated desire as they continue to fight among themselves within their own borders - for now. One can argue till the cows come home about how we ended up where we are - and how they ended up being what they are......but to stand aside and do nothing will - without any doubt - drastically increase the bloodshed and price we'll have to pay a few short years from now. When even the Arab states are chipping in to stop these thugs, only the willfully blind and the meekest of pacifists could deny that we are facing a clear and present danger. 1. Stating a desire and actually being capable of carrying out that desire are two different things. 2. Like Africa, ISIS/ISIL are actually 'fighting amongst themselves' vs 'Arab states' that actually do have far more capability than ISIS/ISIL 3. Military intervention is guaranteed to drastically increase the bloodshed not a few years from now but right now. Dropping bombs does not build schools. 4. What is this clear and present danger? ISIS/ISIL will take over the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'm sorry, but I put little credence in what people with half a brain think they've figured out. I put even less credence in people that lack the moral or ethical background that thinking about this requires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) 1. Stating a desire and actually being capable of carrying out that desire are two different things. 2. Like Africa, ISIS/ISIL are actually 'fighting amongst themselves' vs 'Arab states' that actually do have far more capability than ISIS/ISIL 3. Military intervention is guaranteed to drastically increase the bloodshed not a few years from now but right now. Dropping bombs does not build schools. 4. What is this clear and present danger? ISIS/ISIL will take over the world? It is your right to take a position that would ignore ISIS and let regional powers determine the course of history. A tiny, microscopic comparison can be made in how a relatively few drug lords and gangs (think Bloods, Crips, Hell's Angels, Banditos, the Mafia) can hold entire communities in fear and be almost impossible to eradicate. These elements are choir boys compared to ISIS. They don't play fair, they don't have rules. they hate for the sake of hating, they murder, mame, behead, rape and pillage. And here's the key point - they are filling vast lands that have very little functioning or effective governance. What's next after they consolidate their "Caliphate"? Who knows - but over the succeeding years, more and more "Canadians" will join their murderous sect - and return here to sow havoc. Stop them now - or pay the price. Edited October 5, 2014 by Keepitsimple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 So is it your position that if we are unable to take action against, say, organized crime figures, we are hypocrites to arrest burglars, rapists, robbers and thieves? Or even mere ordinary murderers? Nope, never said anything like that. There are all sorts of ways we could take action against rape, murder and theft that occurs at the hands of dictators and warlords - by identifying, applying sanctions against and arresting anyone funding them for example. We're able to do that. We have all the legal, diplomatic and economic tools to do that - we could start tomorrow without firing a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 How do we percieve that they will stop that kind of thing in this particular situation? We know not helping the Iraqis will only make things worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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