Ferguson unrest

[Shady]

Well, looks like we're getting all sides of the story now

.

The officer, Darren Wilson, has told the authorities that during the scuffle, Mr. Brown reached for the gun. It was fired twice in the car, according to forensics tests performed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The first bullet struck Mr. Brown in the arm; the second bullet missed.

The forensics tests showed Mr. Brown’s blood on the gun, as well as on the interior door panel and on Officer Wilson’s uniform. Officer Wilson told the authorities that Mr. Brown had punched and scratched him repeatedly, leaving swelling on his face and cuts on his neck.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/ferguson-case-officer-is-said-to-cite-struggle.html?_r=0

People need to stop talking out of their butts until all of the information is known.

[Big Guy]

...

People need to stop talking out of their butts until all of the information is known.

Very wise words. But it does take away another opportunity to crap on somebody!

[On Guard for Thee]

Well, looks like we're getting all sides of the story now

.

The officer, Darren Wilson, has told the authorities that during the scuffle, Mr. Brown reached for the gun. It was fired twice in the car, according to forensics tests performed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The first bullet struck Mr. Brown in the arm; the second bullet missed.

The forensics tests showed Mr. Brown’s blood on the gun, as well as on the interior door panel and on Officer Wilson’s uniform. Officer Wilson told the authorities that Mr. Brown had punched and scratched him repeatedly, leaving swelling on his face and cuts on his neck.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/ferguson-case-officer-is-said-to-cite-struggle.html?_r=0

People need to stop talking out of their butts until all of the information is known.

So take your own advice and stop talkin gout of your butt.

[jbg]

People need to stop talking out of their butts until all of the information is known.

It's so obvious that Brown was a constructive force in the community who was shot for jaywalking while black. A very good man murdered in cold blood.

His loss is a national tragedy which the U.S. won't soon recover.

Edited October 20, 2014 by jbg

[bush_cheney2004]

A grand jury decides not to indict. Peaceful and violent protests ensue. Film at 11.

[sharkman]

Also, with gun shot residue, if Wilson's gun went off in the car while Brown was struggling with it, then there would be GSR on his arms.

And I guess facts matter after all. There was gun shot residue on Brown's hands and Brown's blood in the police car and ON Wilson. So Wilson wasn't lying after all, as some around here were insisting(Gee I guess maybe even if some cop haters on tv say he was lying, maybe that's not enough evidence). He was attacked while sitting down in his car by a thug. And as I said before, if a 292 lb thug is stupid enough to attack a cop, then whatever happens after that is his own stupid fault.

And the knuckle draggers out looting are a sign that facts do not matter to some in the black community.

Edited November 25, 2014 by sharkman

[bush_cheney2004]

...And the knuckle draggers out looting are a sign that facts do not matter to some in the black community.

...it doesn't matter to some in the white community either.

[Bonam]

...it doesn't matter to some in the white community either.

Neither whites nor blacks are any kind of homogenous "community". There are many communities within each group, and even more communities that span both groups.

[On Guard for Thee]

And I guess facts matter after all. There was gun shot residue on Brown's hands and Brown's blood in the police car and ON Wilson. So Wilson wasn't lying after all, as some around here were insisting(Gee I guess maybe even if some cop haters on tv say he was lying, maybe that's not enough evidence). He was attacked while sitting down in his car by a thug. And as I said before, if a 292 lb thug is stupid enough to attack a cop, then whatever happens after that is his own stupid fault.

And the knuckle draggers out looting are a sign that facts do not matter to some in the black community.

It's valuable I guess to have input from the knuckledragger community.

[Black Dog]

And I guess facts matter after all. There was gun shot residue on Brown's hands and Brown's blood in the police car and ON Wilson. So Wilson wasn't lying after all, as some around here were insisting(Gee I guess maybe even if some cop haters on tv say he was lying, maybe that's not enough evidence). He was attacked while sitting down in his car by a thug. And as I said before, if a 292 lb thug is stupid enough to attack a cop, then whatever happens after that is his own stupid fault.

And the knuckle draggers out looting are a sign that facts do not matter to some in the black community.

Speaking of facts, how about the fact that Brown was 150 feet away from Wilson when the fatal shots were fired, not 30 feet as the cops originally stated? Or how about the photos of Wilson after the fact which show almost no physical injuries? Or the claim that Wilson "never stood over Brown's body" despite photos of him doing just that? Pretty clear when you say "facts matter" you mean "selected facts that support my chosen racist narratives."

Edited November 25, 2014 by Black Dog

[scribblet]

Facts don't seem to matter to many people, maybe I shouldn't have been surprised at statements made last night on TV, but I was. I listened to a black Senator talking on I think CNN who just refused to acknowledge any facts - facts which did not counter officer Wilson's statements.

I think before people start spouting off about 'chosen racist narratives' they should read all of the facts.

I give the grand jury credit for not being afraid to give that verdict and not giving in to pressure from protesters. I hope they are able to stay safe.

[Black Dog]

Facts don't seem to matter to many people, maybe I shouldn't have been surprised at statements made last night on TV, but I was. I listened to a black Senator talking on I think CNN who just refused to acknowledge any facts - facts which did not counter officer Wilson's statements.

I think before people start spouting off about 'chosen racist narratives' they should read all of the facts.

I give the grand jury credit for not being afraid to give that verdict and not giving in to pressure from protesters. I hope they are able to stay safe.

And I suppose you have thoroughly studied the transcripts of the testimony, the police reports, autopsies and forensic evidence?

[Smallc]

You mean the evidence that led the Grand Jury to the conclusion that no charges were warranted? You mean that evidence?

[Black Dog]

You mean the evidence that led the Grand Jury to the conclusion that no charges were warranted? You mean that evidence?

yes. I'm asking the poster who is suggesting others read all the evidence has done so himself. Have you?

[cybercoma]

A state that sanctions the execution of its own citizens without trial for something as innocuous as stealing a pack of smokes is no state that I would want to be a part of. Reading the commentary today, people are vastly more concerned about the destruction of property than they are about the people being killed. It's a sad and twisted morality.

[Boges]

A state that sanctions the execution of its own citizens without trial for something as innocuous as stealing a pack of smokes is no state that I would want to be a part of. Reading the commentary today, people are vastly more concerned about the destruction of property than they are about the people being killed. It's a sad and twisted morality.

You're acting like the altercation and Brown's attempt to steal the officer's gun didn't play into what happened.

[cybercoma]

You're acting like the altercation and Brown's attempt to steal the officer's gun didn't play into what happened.

You're acting like that altercation actually happened. This wasn't some wrestling match between the two where the officer shot him as he was trying to take his gun. Michael Brown was shot over 100 feet away from the officer and had his hands in the air. That was corroborated by numerous witnesses. Do you honestly believe there is absolutely no non-lethal method for handling the situation at that point?

[Black Dog]

You're acting like the altercation and Brown's attempt to steal the officer's gun didn't play into what happened.

May have done, though we still only have the cops' word that things went down as they did. But what about what happened afterwards? The idea that Brown would run 135 feet away after the initial shots were fired, turn around and then run into a hail of bullets strains the bounds of credulity.

Of course, maybe we'd get a more complete picture if this had actually gone to a real trial. It doesn't really seem like the prosecution was interested in getting an indictment, which is a slam dunk in 99 per cent of grand jury cases.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Black Dog

[Boges]

You're acting like that altercation actually happened. This wasn't some wrestling match between the two where the officer shot him as he was trying to take his gun. Michael Brown was shot over 100 feet away from the officer and had his hands in the air. That was corroborated by numerous witnesses. Do you honestly believe there is absolutely no non-lethal method for handling the situation at that point?

There's second guessing that could be made for sure, but if you have a guy that's larger physically coming at you, (I'm told he was coming at the officer in a menacing manor) who's already had a fight and tried to steal your weapon, lethal force may have been the only option. Officers aren't taught to shoot to wound.

It's not like the Sammy Yatim shooting where the victim posed no immediate threat to anyone.

[Black Dog]

There's second guessing that could be made for sure, but if you have a guy that's larger physically coming at you, (I'm told he was coming at the officer in a menacing manor) who's already had a fight and tried to steal your weapon, lethal force may have been the only option. Officers aren't taught to shoot to wound.

It's not like the Sammy Yatim shooting where the victim posed no immediate threat to anyone.

I don't buy the cop's account in the slightest. He talks about how he pulled his weapon because he was afraid Brown would kill him with a single punch (despite suffering only a slight bruise in the encounter). Then he goes on to describe Brown as some kind of superhuman Jason Voorhees figure, charging through a hail of gunfire, ignoring the bullets slamming into his body until the cop is able to deliver the fatal headshot, which just sounds preposterous.

[Boges]

I don't buy the cop's account in the slightest. He talks about how he pulled his weapon because he was afraid Brown would kill him with a single punch (despite suffering only a slight bruise in the encounter). Then he goes on to describe Brown as some kind of superhuman Jason Voorhees figure, charging through a hail of gunfire, ignoring the bullets slamming into his body until the cop is able to deliver the fatal headshot, which just sounds preposterous.

But he did try to steal the weapon.

I would expect a reasonable person to not want to be in close quarters with a person willing to do that unless they were completely submissive. And dude was huge.

[scribblet]

A state that sanctions the execution of its own citizens without trial for something as innocuous as stealing a pack of smokes is no state that I would want to be a part of. Reading the commentary today, people are vastly more concerned about the destruction of property than they are about the people being killed. It's a sad and twisted morality.

Total hyperbole, the state isn't sanctioning any execution of citizens for stealing anything. It's this type of sanctimonious nonsense that causes problems. The jury weighed all the evidence and witness testimony before reaching their decision after separating fact from fiction.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/us/witnesses-told-grand-jury-that-michael-brown-charged-at-darren-wilson-prosecutor-says.html

The most credible eyewitnesses to the shooting death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., said he had charged toward Police Officer Darren Wilson just before the final, fatal shots, the St. Louis County prosecutor said Monday night as he sought to explain why a grand jury had not found probable cause to indict the officer.

The accounts of several other witnesses from the Ferguson neighborhood where Mr. Brown, 18 and unarmed, met his death on Aug. 9 — including those who said Mr. Brown was trying to surrender — changed over time or were inconsistent with physical evidence, the prosecutor, Robert P. McCulloch, said in a news conference.

[cybercoma]

There's second guessing that could be made for sure, but if you have a guy that's larger physically coming at you, (I'm told he was coming at the officer in a menacing manor) who's already had a fight and tried to steal your weapon, lethal force may have been the only option. Officers aren't taught to shoot to wound.

It's not like the Sammy Yatim shooting where the victim posed no immediate threat to anyone.

Of course he was menacing. Of course he was going for the cop's gun. Whether Brown was doing those things or not, the cop who shot him and his brothers in arms would certainly say that.

The Ferguson Police have a history of corruption and racist violence.

Don't you find it the least bit odd that they seem to find non-lethal solutions for white criminals even when they too attack the police? Even the way the media reports white crime is from the narrative of "transgressions" or "mistakes," while black crime is often depicted as out of control thuggery.

Commentary today sanctions Brown's death because he committed a crime.

He allegedly stole a pack of smokes.

He had no trial. The shop owner's lawyers say the shop owner didn't even identify him as the robber.

This morning there are more people worried and upset at the destruction of property than they are or were over the taking of a human life. It continues the narrative that black lives are expendable. That their crimes, as innocuous as lifting a pack of smokes, deserve death or incarceration. This is one of the many reasons why blacks are given disproportionately longer sentences and more jail time than white criminals.

We can criticize these people for looting, rioting, and burning down businesses. They should be criticized for that. But to value property—literally things—over human life is baffling.

These riots may seem senseless at first glance, but we're talking about people who are fighting back against a state that has sanctioned violence against their community. Commentary today values property over the killing of an unarmed black teenager. His death is condoned by those who say he deserved to die for stealing a pack of smokes. His death is condoned by a state that refuses to indict or try the officer for killing someone when neither his life nor the life of others were in danger.

So why do they go destroying businesses? Because the police, who are the tools with which an oppressive state murders unarmed black teens, are supposed to stop those things from happening. The police exercise the state's oppressive power with murder, but are also supposed to uphold the law and protect these businesses. By rioting, burning, and looting these business, these people are denying the state its power over them. By denying the police's power over them, they are rebuking their oppression. It sends a clear message that an unethical state that oppresses people will not be obeyed and further has no power over anyone without their co-operation.

That's the message that's being sent, but the narrative will continue to be "black thugs harm innocent people" because very few people want to delve into the context and understand the social forces at play here beyond sound bites and headlines.

[cybercoma]

Total hyperbole, the state isn't sanctioning any execution of citizens for stealing anything. It's this type of sanctimonious nonsense that causes problems. The jury weighed all the evidence and witness testimony before reaching their decision after separating fact from fiction.

You want to have a reasonable conversation or hurl insults? Your choice. With this kind of opening, you sound like you want to just hurl insults. I'm not interested in going down that road. So if you want to have a discussion, address my arguments like a reasonable person and I will respond to you.

[Black Dog]

But he did try to steal the weapon.

Says the cop. We don't have any physical evidence that was the case. All we know is that there was a struggle for the weapon and that it was fired twice in the process. Considering how exaggerated the accounts of the attack were (remember his broken orbital bone?) Consider the initial claim that Brown was a mere 30 feet from Wilson when he was killed (actual distance was more than four times that). Consider that the Ferguson chief initially said Wilson had no knowledge of the convenience store robbery, only to have Wilson contradict that claim in his grand jury testimony.

I would expect a reasonable person to not want to be in close quarters with a person willing to do that unless they were completely submissive. And dude was huge.

135 feet. Look at it this way: if Wilson was standing at home plate on a baseball diamond, Brown would have been about 10 feet behind second base in centre field when he was killed and that was after he had already allegedly turned around and come back towards the cop. Do you think it likely a guy would get that far with a cop shooting at him, then decide to turn around and "charge" into a hail of bullets?

Edited November 25, 2014 by Black Dog