Ferguson unrest

[On Guard for Thee]

Yep, there's a lot of rushing to judgement going on here. Especially the one's who think they have it all down as to what actually hapenned at the police car. Hell the eyewitnesses aren't even sure on that.

[Argus]

Your posts are giving permission for thugs to be shot dead even when they are surrendering. Do you not see a problem with this?

First, it has not been established that he was surrendering. Second, I don't cry over what happens to thugs.

[Argus]

And how did the cop know he was a thug at the time? Oh yeah, he was black.

Probably he got the idea when the thug was punching him in the face. Just a guess.

[On Guard for Thee]

And you know this how?

[Argus]

And you know this how?

There appear to be two stories. One is that he attacked the cop, which is what sparked the shooting. The other appears to be that for no particular reason other than he hated Black people the cop decided to pull out his gun and start shooting. As much as I've spoken about police abuse before, I find this latter concept a little difficult to believe, especially since 80% of the people the cop would be encountering every day were black and there is no previous evidence or testimony of his racism. Or craziness.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Argus

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't think anybody is suggesting your "other" story. It does seem that something hapenned in the street that prompted some sort of altercation between the cop and Brown. The kid ended up dead, shot at least 6 times. How that all hapenned we don't know. Eyewitness accounts vary which is not unusual. The fact that some of the right wing news agencies (such as Fox) posted bullshit xrays purporting to describe the cops eye injury didn't help matters because lot's of people who wanted to believe such info, believed it. lot's jumped to conclusions. We need REAL evidence which is not yet available to really know what transpired.

[Boges]

They still protesting?

I'm guessing the officer isn't being charged or we would have heard something right?

[Argus]

They still protesting?

I'm guessing the officer isn't being charged or we would have heard something right?

Well, the grand jury was just given an additional four months to decide if anyone should be charged with anything. Take that as you wish...

[Black Dog]

There appear to be two stories. One is that he attacked the cop, which is what sparked the shooting. The other appears to be that for no particular reason other than he hated Black people the cop decided to pull out his gun and start shooting. As much as I've spoken about police abuse before, I find this latter concept a little difficult to believe, especially since 80% of the people the cop would be encountering every day were black and there is no previous evidence or testimony of his racism. Or craziness.

False dichotomy. It's possible it all started with Brown and the cop having a confrontation, possibly physical. But what happens after matters: according to the cops, Brown was charging at the armed officer, who shot him in self defense. The alternate narrative is that Brown, after scuffling with the cop and being fired at, turned to surrender, giving the cop a chance to finish the job. Now, I understand cops have a right to use lethal force in self defense, but I'm pretty sure they don't have the right to use lethal force in the absence of an active threat. If Brown was in the act of surrendering when he was fatally shot (as eyewitness accounts suggest), IMO that's straight up murder regardless of what transpired before.

[cybercoma]

Yeah, but the cop had a lot of adrenaline going, so you have to excuse him for that.

[jbg]

Yeah, but the cop had a lot of adrenaline going, so you have to excuse him for that.

Compared to Brown's?

[On Guard for Thee]

And who was unarmed and who's dead?

[bush_cheney2004]

Unarmed criminals would be well advised not to attack armed police officers.

[On Guard for Thee]

And hopefully you will never get picked as a juror.

[Argus]

False dichotomy. It's possible it all started with Brown and the cop having a confrontation, possibly physical. But what happens after matters:

Not really. The question at hand was whether Brown was a thug. If the thug Brown (the video is enough for my decision) attacked the cop that ipso facto makes him a violent offender. As I understand American law, the police are allowed to shoot violent offenders to prevent them from escaping.

And frankly, I've never believed that Brown was shot multiple times while peacefully standing still with his hands raised. Just doesn't make any sense and goes against human nature. Not saying it's impossible but it's damned unlikely.

[On Guard for Thee]

The video occured in the store. Doesn't prove a damn thing as to what hapenned at the police car. The cop knew nothing of what hapenned at the store so he doeesn't have that as an excuse.

[Argus]

The video occured in the store. Doesn't prove a damn thing as to what hapenned at the police car. The cop knew nothing of what hapenned at the store so he doeesn't have that as an excuse.

It proved the individual was a thug. Thugs, as a group, are predisposed to violence.

The original spin on this was a nice young teenager with no criminal record was shot down in the street by a cop. No reason for the nice young teenager to have done anything to have caused the cop to shoot him. Therefore, the immediate suspicion was the cop had overreacted, likely because he was racist.

But when we know the 'nice young teenager' was, in fact, a very, very large thug who had just committed a robbery, we suddenly have a reason why he might have done something to have caused the cop to shoot him.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Argus

[On Guard for Thee]

Yes, "might" have. That's the important point. I know in some people's minds Brown also has been tried and convicted. Hopefully a proper jury will rely on something more substantial than a "might have"

[cybercoma]

Not really. The question at hand was whether Brown was a thug.

I guess if you think cops should be able to identify people as thugs then murder them in the streets, then that's the question.

[cybercoma]

Let's save a bunch of money and get rid of the courts and prisons. We can just have cops murdering people whom they believe are thugs. Save a crapload of money, deal with overpopulation, institute a little Social Darwinism. It's the perfect plan.

[Peter F]

Unarmed criminals would be well advised not to attack armed police officers.

and certainly not surrender to them

[WestCoastRunner]

It proved the individual was a thug. Thugs, as a group, are predisposed to violence.

The original spin on this was a nice young teenager with no criminal record was shot down in the street by a cop. No reason for the nice young teenager to have done anything to have caused the cop to shoot him. Therefore, the immediate suspicion was the cop had overreacted, likely because he was racist.

But when we know the 'nice young teenager' was, in fact, a very, very large thug who had just committed a robbery, we suddenly have a reason why he might have done something to have caused the cop to shoot him.

We know he was shot because he was a big black kid.

[Smallc]

We don't know that at all. That's you convicting the officer, which is no better than what you don't want others to do in regards to Brown.

[WestCoastRunner]

We don't know that at all. That's you convicting the officer, which is no better than what you don't want others to do in regards to Brown.

This is true. We need to let the court decide. My mistake.

[On Guard for Thee]

It should go to court of course but if you look at the stats it's unlikely any charges will be brought. Cops in the US tend to get a bit of a free ride.