Why Islam is dangerous

[dialamah]

Hit a nerve, eh?

Decided you aren't worth bothering with.

[DogOnPorch]

What is a Shahid?

[DogOnPorch]

Since the defenders of Islam do not want to defend this...I'll continue.

A Shahid is a Martyr. Dying while killing in the name of Allah assures one a place in Heaven. And not just regular ol' Heaven that the plebs get to go to. We're talking Paradise Plus...with all the trimmings. Sex slaves, intoxicants...the works.

[DogOnPorch]

Which pretty much puts an end to this thread as it firmly establishes Islam as a existential danger.

If a Muslim can murder non-Muslims in the name of Allah and get the best seat in Heaven, death isn't much of a deterrent to a Believer.

Is it?

[Argus]

The world has been a very violent place. Yes, since the end of the cold war most of that violence has been in 'Muslim' countries (North Korea is a notable exception). Note that the West (and Soviets) has interfered in most of those countries with significant violence. It is not that Muslims are getting worse, it is that the other parts of the World have healed faster/better.

No, you're wrong. The Muslim world is indisputably getting worse, more regressive, more conservative, more fundamentalist. The wearing of hijabs and burkas is growing everywhere (including in Canada), and the harsh social mores based on harsh Islamic values is indisputably a strong part of EVERY Muslim nation across the world, whether it's ever been "interfered with" or not.

[Argus]

There are billions of Muslims that ignore the horrible crap in the Quran. It has nothing really to do with Christians being forgiven.

Where are these billions to be found? Which countries, please?

Edited September 9, 2016 by Argus

[Argus]

But I can say who I definately do not think are scholars of Islam: Peter F; Dog on Porch; Drummindiver; Argus and pretty much everyone else on Maple Leaf Web.

I never claimed to be a scholar of Islam. You folks from the Left are desperately assuring everyone around you that the things we read in the Koran are pretty much ignored by almost the whole Muslim world, and all I keep asking is, why then do we see precisely these things as part of laws and popular social values as expressed all across the Muslim world in every single country?

I keep asking for which Muslim countries don't interpret Islam's tenets the way we write here and nobody is answering me.

[Argus]

Why Islam is dangerous; because Muslims not only cling to antiquated, barbaric social values but they demand everyone else around them adopt those same values. But don't worry, women can still wear shorts in Canada without fear of being attacked by Muslim mobs - for now.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/dirty-whore-youths-attack-families-of-women-wearing-shorts-in-france

[cybercoma]

I never claimed to be a scholar of Islam. You folks from the Left are desperately assuring everyone around you that the things we read in the Koran are pretty much ignored by almost the whole Muslim world, and all I keep asking is, why then do we see precisely these things as part of laws and popular social values as expressed all across the Muslim world in every single country?

I keep asking for which Muslim countries don't interpret Islam's tenets the way we write here and nobody is answering me.

Theres over a million Muslims in Canada. If they wanted you dead, you already would be.

[Bonam]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/dirty-whore-youths-attack-families-of-women-wearing-shorts-in-france

No problem, it's just multiculturalism in action. I'm sure the victims didn't mind and thought the whole thing was an interesting cultural experience.

[DogOnPorch]

Theres over a million Muslims in Canada. If they wanted you dead, you already would be.

How reassuring.

[Argus]

How reassuring.

People keep ignoring the fact that Muslim communities get braver and more determined to enforce Islam as their numbers grow stronger.

There were Muslims in France twenty years ago. But Jewish temples and schools didn't need armed guards then. Nor did women wearing shorts get assaulted by mobs of Muslims for being whores.

[DogOnPorch]

People keep ignoring the fact that Muslim communities get braver and more determined to enforce Islam as their numbers grow stronger.

There were Muslims in France twenty years ago. But Jewish temples and schools didn't need armed guards then. Nor did women wearing shorts get assaulted by mobs of Muslims for being whores.

I doubt cybercoma even realizes the gravity of his statement...being cheeky n' all. Basically you were given an off-handed death threat.

[cybercoma]

It's only a death threat if you're an utter moron suffering from paranoia.

[DogOnPorch]

It's only a death threat if you're an utter moron suffering from paranoia.

Hey...you said it. Not me. Argus would be dead if the Muslims wanted....

[Moonlight Graham]

The only solace I have is that clashes in culture between westerners and Muslims (and other non-western cultures) will progress faster in European countries like France and Britain than in Canada. Hopefully we'll be able to learn from them before we repeat their biggest mistakes.

Unfortunately this clash of civilizations is going to keep getting a whole lot worse before it gets better as immigration increases and the birth-rates of westerners remains below replacement levels. Something eventually is going to have to give. I don't know how many years it will take but at some point westerners are going to get fed up, and there will be violence, and protests, and hatred and resentment. And leaders similar to Trump and those who fought for the Brexit will gain more traction. Massive populist change will happen and the multicultural experiments of the West will probably end.

Progressivism will suffer a starting, soul-searching defeat, after decades of slowly but continually going further and further to the left and towards more political correctness and tolerance and pity and accommodation....and as a result mainstream politics will shift a bit to the right, or at least not quite as left as it was.

Come back to this post in 10-20 years and tell me I was wrong.

[Altai]

I think this topic is death anymore because there is no effort to understand each other. Everyone is stuck in their own claims.

[Goddess]

http://www.weneedtotalkaboutislam.com/single-post/2016/04/06/Coercive-and-controlling-behaviour-Are-UK-legal-changes-good-for-Muslim-women

Maybe the UK is onto something here??

[eyeball]

The only solace I have is that clashes in culture between westerners and Muslims (and other non-western cultures) will progress faster in European countries like France and Britain than in Canada. Hopefully we'll be able to learn from them before we repeat their biggest mistakes.

Unfortunately this clash of civilizations is going to keep getting a whole lot worse before it gets better as immigration increases and the birth-rates of westerners remains below replacement levels. Something eventually is going to have to give. I don't know how many years it will take but at some point westerners are going to get fed up, and there will be violence, and protests, and hatred and resentment. And leaders similar to Trump and those who fought for the Brexit will gain more traction. Massive populist change will happen and the multicultural experiments of the West will probably end.

Progressivism will suffer a starting, soul-searching defeat, after decades of slowly but continually going further and further to the left and towards more political correctness and tolerance and pity and accommodation....and as a result mainstream politics will shift a bit to the right, or at least not quite as left as it was.

Come back to this post in 10-20 years and tell me I was wrong.

People could see this coming 15 years ago.

[cybercoma]

Hey...you said it. Not me. Argus would be dead if the Muslims wanted....

If Islam was as much about violence and killing as you two claim it is, then yes. 1 million Muslims in Canada would easily have you killed for being apostates.

Except they haven't and you can't think for half a second why that is because you're intent on claiming ISIS has the one true interpretation of Islam.

Maybe, just maybe, you're wrong about Islam and need to realize that evil people will do evil things and have used religion to justify their evils for centuries regardless of affiliation. The vast majority of Muslims in the West aren't interested in converting everyone to Islam and murdering non-believers. But if someone were to listen to the hysterics from people like you and Argus, you would think we were all knocking on deaths door. It's not just hyperbole, it's just plain wrong. But your cognitive bias against Muslims and in fact any religious person is so strong that you cannot for the life of you see that most people live peaceful lives, regardless of religion and with or without religion.

[dialamah]

http://www.weneedtotalkaboutislam.com/single-post/2016/04/06/Coercive-and-controlling-behaviour-Are-UK-legal-changes-good-for-Muslim-women

Maybe the UK is onto something here??

I think that's a really good article, makes some excellent points. But how does one address it? It's all well and good for people to want to help women who are being abused, or even controlled - but the problem is getting the victims to accept the help. Even when a woman is born white and raised in Western society, it can be really difficult for family, friends and authorities to get her to leave her abuser. How much harder for a woman who may have been raised in a different country and culture to escape an abusive relationship?

I don't know what the answer is here. A big issue with domestic violence is that if the woman tries to leave, that's often when she's in the most danger. Police involvement can be sought, but men have been known to ignore restraining orders and attack their victims, and even their children, anyway. In a culture which includes honor killing, how much more danger is a woman in?

So far, I've seen people rail against the misogyny that exists within Islamic cultures, but their solutions often seem to include removing even more rights from the *women*. That makes no sense to me. Or the *solution* of not letting them into a country where they at least have the opportunity to find freedom from that kind of abuse. Certainly that keeps the problem out of our sight, but that would be unfortunate for the women who would eagerly take advantage of an opportunity, as well as the women who may realize after a time that they are entitled to more freedoms.

I wish there was an easy answer to this.

Edited September 10, 2016 by dialamah

[cybercoma]

I think this topic is death anymore because there is no effort to understand each other. Everyone is stuck in their own claims.

As is the case with most any topic on this forum. I honestly don't know why I or anyone else posts here still. I guess it's like gambling. You keep playing because you hope you're going to hit it big. Play enough and eventually you do win but at what price? Winning at gambling is like finding that moment where people actually listen and learn from each other here. It's rare but when it does happen it's like winning the lottery. Posting here is like gambling. They payoffs are few and far between but once in awhile it happens.

Edited September 10, 2016 by cybercoma

[dialamah]

As is the case with most any topic on this forum. I honestly don't know why I or anyone else posts here still. I guess it's like gambling. You keep playing because you hope you're going to hit it big. Play enough and eventually you do win but at what price? Winning at gambling is like finding that moment where people actually listen and learn from each other here. It's rare but when it does happen it's like winning the lottery. Posting here is like gambling. They payoffs are few and far between but once in awhile it happens.

I have to say I have learned from people here, and I have also learned about myself here.

[DogOnPorch]

If Islam was as much about violence and killing as you two claim it is, then yes. 1 million Muslims in Canada would easily have you killed for being apostates.

Except they haven't and you can't think for half a second why that is because you're intent on claiming ISIS has the one true interpretation of Islam.

Maybe, just maybe, you're wrong about Islam and need to realize that evil people will do evil things and have used religion to justify their evils for centuries regardless of affiliation. The vast majority of Muslims in the West aren't interested in converting everyone to Islam and murdering non-believers. But if someone were to listen to the hysterics from people like you and Argus, you would think we were all knocking on deaths door. It's not just hyperbole, it's just plain wrong. But your cognitive bias against Muslims and in fact any religious person is so strong that you cannot for the life of you see that most people live peaceful lives, regardless of religion and with or without religion.

The reason it's a threat is that Muslim have murdered those who dare criticize Islam. Or would you like to claim they have not?

Plus, I'm not sure how much longer you can blame me for the World's problems. Or in this case: Islam's problem. While I appreciate you'd much prefer everybody shut-up and let Islam do what it does without any offered resistance, others are going to resist. Perhaps Islam will dominate one day...then fellows like Argus and myself will get our deserved punishments. You can come to the hangings.

Meanwhile: What's a Shahid, cybercoma?

[Goddess]

Dialamah, I think this law in the UK is a good start. It beats sitting back and doing nothing about it. Muslims need to know clearly and definitely that this treatment of women is wrong and will not be tolerated in our country. How do they learn this when we continue to do nothing?

Islam is not going to have any kind of reformation. And even if it did, westerners are not going to be able to initiate that reform. Unfortunately Muslim women are going to have to step up and Yes, there will be blood shed. I don't think we empower women by just sitting back and saying, "Oh, it's your religion/culture? Well okay then, keep doing what you're doing."

If I was a Muslim woman who wanted out, what empowerment to do so would I feel from a country that basically has 2 sets of laws? One for Western women that makes coercive control illegal and one for Muslims where it is allowed?

I don't understand your thinking that allowing this behaviour in Canada just because it's their religion/culture is going to help these women at all.