Derek 2.0 Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Such satellites can pinpoint the exact location of the launch. Some can, but from the information released by the Pentagon, they’ve only confirmed that a missile was launched from Eastern Ukraine………What are the current battle lines in the conflict? Are they consistently static? Something also to consider, the Ukrainian military has accidentally shot down a Russian commercial airliner before (Siberian Airlines flight 1812)…….said missile was launched from Eastern Ukraine, and of course the Ukrainian military initially denied involvement…… Quote
GostHacked Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Sure, blame the victim. They deserved to get raped, mugged etc because they were in the wrong part of town . If you chose to go to the wrong end of town, don't cry to me if something bad happens. If you know it is a bad part of town and you know that you could get raped, why would the airline risk flying over a conflict zone? It's not like Malaysia Airlines already has a huge spot on their record. Wait, they do, HM370. Seems like most other airlines are staying clear of the area. And with good reason. "When you walk in the woods sometimes the wolves are gonna eat you" - Mo Berg It sucks the plane was shot down. I don't blame the victims, they were simply the passengers on the plane. We'd need to take the airline to task and ask wtf where you thinking? You don't walk into a cage of wild tigers. You don't go swimming with sharks. You don't fly over conflict zones. Quote
Wilber Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) If you chose to go to the wrong end of town, don't cry to me if something bad happens. If you know it is a bad part of town and you know that you could get raped, why would the airline risk flying over a conflict zone? It's not like Malaysia Airlines already has a huge spot on their record. Wait, they do, HM370. Seems like most other airlines are staying clear of the area. And with good reason."When you walk in the woods sometimes the wolves are gonna eat you" - Mo BergIt sucks the plane was shot down. I don't blame the victims, they were simply the passengers on the plane. We'd need to take the airline to task and ask wtf where you thinking?You don't walk into a cage of wild tigers. You don't go swimming with sharks. You don't fly over conflict zones. So speaks 20/20 hindsight. There was no reason to think these idiots would take a pot shot at a cruising airliner that probably wasn't going to be over their airspace for more than 10 minutes, if in fact they were over it at all. Other than the fact they are idiots of course. Edited July 21, 2014 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
GostHacked Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 So speaks 20/20 hindsight. There was no reason to think these idiots would take a pot shot at a cruising airliner that probably wasn't going to be over their airspace for more than 10 minutes, if in fact they were over it at all. Other than the fact they are idiots of course. It's not like airliners have been shot down over conflict zones before right? Right? Quote
ASIP Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 You don't walk into a cage of wild tigers. You don't go swimming with sharks. You don't fly over conflict zones. Unfortunately this is too simplistic. Real life is more complicated. Planes do fly over conflict zones. Shit happens sometimes. Quote
GostHacked Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Unfortunately this is too simplistic. Real life is more complicated. Planes do fly over conflict zones. Shit happens sometimes. But the 'shit happens' in this case was easily avoidable. Quote
ASIP Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 But the 'shit happens' in this case was easily avoidable. "I wish I would have been now as wise as my wife will be tomorrow." Aviation is always a cost/benefit analysis, plus human errors are unavoidable. Every crash could have been "easily avoidable" when you know the chain of events post factum. Quote
Wilber Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 It's not like airliners have been shot down over conflict zones before right? Right? Define the conflict zone. Aircraft taking off from Seoul's Inchon International make an immediate left turn to keep them away from North Korean airspace. Those folks are shooting at each other regularly in waters not far away. How much territory do these Russian twits control because this missile is likely capable of hitting targets beyond that territory and that aircraft would have been covering about 15 KM per minute. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
GostHacked Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Define the conflict zone. Aircraft taking off from Seoul's Inchon International make an immediate left turn to keep them away from North Korean airspace. Those folks are shooting at each other regularly in waters not far away. How much territory do these Russian twits control because this missile is likely capable of hitting targets beyond that territory and that aircraft would have been covering about 15 KM per minute. What is the suspected range of the BUK missile system? But .... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/mh17-pressure-on-russia-as-world-demands-answers-over-planes-destruction In Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia's transport minister Liow Tiong Lai stressed that MH17 was following "the right route on the right path" amid a barrage of questions from local and foreign reporters as to why Malaysia Airlines would have chosen to fly over a war zone. Qantas, the Australian carrier, said it had been steering clear of the area by 400 nautical miles for several months. So, some other airlines took precautions based on the following.... Rebels in the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics have shot down several Ukrainian planes and helicopters in recent weeks. Several military planes were shot down. It was only a matter of time before a civilian aircraft was taken out. Intentionally or not. Quote
-TSS- Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 The shooting down of the plane was not a military operation but an act of terrorism and should be treated as such. Anyone who harbours terrorists is complicit to terrorism. Having said that I couldn't help smiling when the Dutch PM Mark Rutte was talking tough at a press conference saying that he will personally see to it that the ones behind this crime are punished. Sorry Mr.Rutte but you and your country just don't have the muscles for that. I don't think Putin is feeling terrified now that the Dutch PM is very angry. Quote
xul Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 There was a war right beneath that plane... I think whoever autherized the flight course over that area is more likely a terrorist than who shot it down. Quote
Black Dog Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Rebel's "call the shots" at crash site If the Ukraine government has not yet thrown their full military weight at these guys, now is the time. If they can't do it, NATO should. Quote
Boges Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Rebel's "call the shots" at crash site If the Ukraine government has not yet thrown their full military weight at these guys, now is the time. If they can't do it, NATO should. I guess the problem is that Russia is Europe's energy source. Putin has a trump card to do whatever he wants and Europe can't say bleep. It's looking a lot like the 30's more and more. Quote
-TSS- Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 We must remember the old adage about how the first victim of any war is the truth. We know it too well that Russians broadcast lies and bullshit all the time but we would be foolish not take the Ukrainian side of the story with a pinch of salt as well. This war is difficult for the media because there is no clear good guys vs bad guys-position. The Russian separatists are clearly the bad guys but the current Ukrainian government are not particularly angels themselves either. Quote
Boges Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 This war is difficult for the media because there is no clear good guys vs bad guys-position. The Russian separatists are clearly the bad guys but the current Ukrainian government are not particularly angels themselves either. What did they do wrong? Didn't they just get elected? Quote
GostHacked Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 We must remember the old adage about how the first victim of any war is the truth. Like the run up to the last invasion if Iraq? I do not trust our media to tell us the truth either. We know it too well that Russians broadcast lies and bullshit all the time but we would be foolish not take the Ukrainian side of the story with a pinch of salt as well. Right we also know the west tried to pin the chemical attacks in Syria on the Syrian military. Twice they were inconclusive results, and the other time it was the rebels (western backed) that used them. This war is difficult for the media because there is no clear good guys vs bad guys-position. The Russian separatists are clearly the bad guys but the current Ukrainian government are not particularly angels themselves either. Both sides are doing terrible things. But let's continue to hold Putin accountable without holding our own leaders accountable for their own failures and lies of the past. Quote
Argus Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Some can, but from the information released by the Pentagon, they’ve only confirmed that a missile was launched from Eastern Ukraine………What are the current battle lines in the conflict? Are they consistently static They have stated it was fired from within the territory controlled by the Russians. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 It's not like airliners have been shot down over conflict zones before right? Right? The locals didn't have the ability to shoot down airliners until the Russians gave it to them. Something like 800 airliners had passed through that corridor in the week prior to the Malaysian plane being brought down. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 There was a war right beneath that plane... I think whoever autherized the flight course over that area is more likely a terrorist than who shot it down. What a moronic statement. The flight corridor has been in use for many years. Eight hundred aircraft passed through it in the week prior to the Russians shooting down the Malaysian plane. No one knew they had that capability, never having shown it before the Russians gave them the weapons for it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Both sides are doing terrible things. But let's continue to hold Putin accountable without holding our own leaders accountable for their own failures and lies of the past. Comparing our leaders to Putin is like comparing a jaw walker to a mass murderer. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Comparing our leaders to Putin is like comparing a jaw walker to a mass murderer. Want to talk about Obama's globetrotting drone strikes? How about Canada's involvement in Haiti a few years back? If you want to hold Putin accountable for this, then you should also take our own leaders to task. How about the US funneling weapons and support to Al-Queda back in the day? What about their continued support for the rebels in Syria? What about the mess left behind in Iraq that gave rise to ISIS. Seems like lots of murder on both sides, no matter how you cut it. Quote
Big Guy Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Want to talk about Obama's globetrotting drone strikes? How about Canada's involvement in Haiti a few years back? If you want to hold Putin accountable for this, then you should also take our own leaders to task. How about the US funneling weapons and support to Al-Queda back in the day? What about their continued support for the rebels in Syria? What about the mess left behind in Iraq that gave rise to ISIS. Seems like lots of murder on both sides, no matter how you cut it. Some people are analysts and some people are cheerleaders. You want noise then follow the cheerleaders. I believe that if you want some semblance of reality then follow the analysts. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 Want to talk about Obama's globetrotting drone strikes? How about Canada's involvement in Haiti a few years back? If you want to hold Putin accountable for this, then you should also take our own leaders to task. Like I said, jaywalking to mass murder. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 I believe that if you want some semblance of reality then follow the analysts. Thus far you have demonstrated the desire for reality of a man who sticks his fingers in his ears, closes his eyes, and goes "Lalalalalalala!" because he doesn't want to admit the harsh truth about reality. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Derek 2.0 Posted July 21, 2014 Report Posted July 21, 2014 They have stated it was fired from within the territory controlled by the Russians. Russians or separatists? Quote
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