bush_cheney2004 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Sorry folks....revisionist history won't work this time: The International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) was a NATO-led security mission in Afghanistan, established by the United Nations Security Council in December 2001 by Resolution 1386. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1386 Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Je suis Omar Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) I've been questioning why the government hasn't arrested Maha el-Samnah for years. People praise Harper for creating laws against radicalizing terrorists. What's stopping him from using these laws? I think it's because going after Omar Khadr's mother for indoctrinating and radicalizing her son put's the government in the awkward spot of trying to explain how a 15 year old who was radicalized and indoctrinated from around the age of 8 could possibly be regarded as anything but a victim - as underscored by the UN secretary-general's special representative for children and armed conflict who said; Khadr represents the "classic child soldier narrative: recruited by unscrupulous groups to undertake actions at the bidding of adults to fight battles they barely understand." That's all well and good, Eyeball, but what of all the sons and daughters of Americans, Canadians, Brits, ... who have been indoctrinated and radicalized into thinking that the Cubans, the Nicaraguans, the Vietnamese, the Koreans, the ... are our mortal enemies. We're really big on pretending that we care about the world's poor and oppressed but our actions show the complete opposite. Why shouldn't people of Afghanistan, Iraq and numerous other nations and peoples teach their children to stick up for the very people that have been viciously attacked by the supposed good guys for well over a half century. Would Canadians, Australians, ... be happy if the USA used them in an amoral, vicious deadly game to "give the USSR its own Vietnam"? What would Canadians, Australian, ... parents tell/teach/indoctrinate/radicalize their children about good ole benevolent Uncle Sam then? I suspect that the Canadian government wouldn't want to go anywhere near a prosecution of Omar's mother because they, like all war criminals and terrorists, are not at all comfortable with the truth. The disconnect in so many westerners "thinking" is truly mind boggling. Edited May 8, 2015 by Je suis Omar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) That's all well and good, Eyeball, but what of all the sons and daughters of Americans, Canadians, Brits, ... who have been indoctrinated and radicalized into thinking that the Cubans, the Nicaraguans, the Vietnamese, the Koreans, the ... are our mortal enemies. We're really big on pretending that we care about the world's poor and oppressed but our actions show the complete opposite. Why shouldn't people of Afghanistan, Iraq and numerous other nations and peoples teach their children to stick up for the very people that have been viciously attacked by the supposed good guys for well over a half century. Would Canadians, Australians, ... be happy if the USA used them in an amoral, vicious deadly game to "give the USSR its own Vietnam"? What would Canadians, Australian, ... parents tell/teach/indoctrinate/radicalize their children about good ole benevolent Uncle Sam then? I suspect that the Canadian government wouldn't want to go anywhere near a prosecution of Omar's mother because they, like all war criminals and terrorists, are not at all comfortable with the truth. The disconnect in so many westerners "thinking" is truly mind boggling. I don't think you answered his question, your doing a lot of side stepping on the issue, how many of those nations citizens you mention actually brought over their children to these countries to take part in the physical violence agains't people that they did not have ties to, how many of these citizens used or perverted their religion to strengthen their cause, which was to use their children in this conflict, how many of them tried to convince their children to become suicide bombers, sent them to terrorist training camps, allowed them to take part in combat with their own nation soldiers fighting on the other side... Edited May 8, 2015 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Saw snippets of Khadr's press conference. He's had over 10 years to think about his upbringing and his actions. If he really wanted to win Canadians over, he would have spoken in terms of atoning for his actions - regretting that he was raised in a haze of terrorist dogma, apologizing for a family that put him in such an impossible position.....truly regretting that he caused the death of an innocent medic and wounding another.......I heard nothing about that. After all these years, he simply dismissed his past. After all these years - and the help of a lawyer to script his words - I heard nothing - no remorse for his actions.. Edited May 9, 2015 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 I have no sticks or accolades to throw in any direction. What do people expect of any individual who has been tortured as a young man (no one disputes this), has spent the last 13 years in prison and has no idea what freedom of movement or freedom of speech entails. He has not been allowed to speak to the press for 13 years. He has not been able to make and follow through with any decision for 13 years. This person should be an absolute basket case. What would anybody expect from an individual who has been locked up from the age of 15 to 28? Is he now thinking clearly? Is he now capable of expressing his feelings? How is now supposed to earn a living? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Saw snippets of Khadr's press conference. He's had over 10 years to think about his upbringing and his actions. If he really wanted to win Canadians over, he would have spoken in terms of atoning for his actions - regretting that he was raised in a haze of terrorist dogma, apologizing for a family that put him in such an impossible position.....truly regretting that he caused the death of an innocent medic and wounding another.......I heard nothing about that. After all these years, he simply dismissed his past. After all these years - and the help of a lawyer to script his words - I heard nothing - no remorse for his actions.. Then you should go back and listen to more than just snippets before commenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 If a child is indoctrinated into an extremist religion, brought by his dad to a war zone to fight, then captured and tortured.... I don't think he has anything to apologize for. His family should be arrested and/or deported... not done... He should have been treated as a child soldier.... not done... he should have been backed by his own country who signed onto the child soldier treaty... not done... There are a lot of other people who need to apologize other than Khadr. Quote Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 I think keepitsimple has a valid piont, has anyone heard of any atonement....about anything..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 I think keepitsimple has a valid piont, has anyone heard of any atonement....about anything..... Why would he say anything about that when he's appealing his sentence in the USA? He would have a really crappy lawyer if he was apologizing for anything... I'm surprised he talked to the press... Quote Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Including the US military and government for allowing international laws to be broken including charging someone retroactively with a newly crafted law 4 years after they have been incarcerated. Then we could talk about torture.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 I think keepitsimple has a valid piont, has anyone heard of any atonement....about anything..... Apparently you and KISS dont hear very well. Go listen to his GD press meeting and get back to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Army he has been given the opportunity to openly denounce violence, terrorism and using Islam to rationalize violence and he has in fact refused. In fact he is quite deliberate in refusing to state what he did was wrong. His words are very carefully scripted. This is a pathetic pr sham. His latest conferences are the tip of the iceberg. The Kadr apologists can go back and find out what he has said in interviews. Instead we now have this charade that his last press conference is complete an indicates remorse. To be expected. He is an unrepentant terrorist. Packaging him as a grinning boy next door does not change what he is. The point though is our law believes in rehabilitation and there are no shortage of people who want to take wolf puppies home. He will in due time show his teeth and the same dummies saying how cute he is will act in horror and disbelief when he bites and bite he will. He's a sociopath right down to the grinning. The lawyer he has is the last person you want as a role model-that lawyer is a classic enabler-no lawyer should be that personally involved-that is unprofessional. The lawyer is a piece of scum. Any semblance of professionality he had went down the toilet accusing Harper of being anti Muslim. That was the kind of unprofessional, subjective derogatory name calling that makes a mockery of the legal profession. Edited May 9, 2015 by Rue Quote I come to you to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Army he has been given the opportunity to openly denounce violence, terrorism and using Islam to rationalize violence and he has in fact refused. In fact he is quite deliberate in refusing to state what he did was wrong. His words are very carefully scripted. This is a pathetic pr sham. His latest conferences are the tip of the iceberg. The Kadr apologists can go back and find out what he has said in interviews. Instead we now have this charade that his last press conference is complete an indicates remorse. To be expected. He is an unrepentant terrorist. Packaging him as a grinning boy next door does not change what he is. The point though is our law believes in rehabilitation and there are no shortage of people who want to take wolf puppies home. He will in due time show his teeth and the same dummies saying how cute he is will act in horror and disbelief when he bites and bite he will. He's a sociopath right down to the grinning. The lawyer he has is the last person you want as a role model-that lawyer is a classic enabler-no lawyer should be that personally involved-that is unprofessional. The lawyer is a piece of scum. Any semblance of professionality he had went down the toilet accusing Harper of being anti Muslim. That was the kind of unprofessional, subjective derogatory name calling that makes a mockery of the legal profession. It seems there are some dummies around who are commenting on his first appearance in public who either didnt listen, or just choose to ignore the fact he did say he was sorry for the suffering he had caused. What a lot also seem to overlook is he is still fighting an appeal so he must be careful of what he says. Of course his lawyer will have briefed him on that. You know, kind of like how all of Harpers cabinet ministers hide from the storm brewing over the senate scandal by saying its before the courts so cant comment. Th fact is that this country is governed by the rule of law, and whether you like it or not, it stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Je suis Omar Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) I don't think you answered his question, your doing a lot of side stepping on the issue,I wasn't attempting to answer his question, AG. how many of those nations citizens you mention actually brought over their children to these countries to take part in the physical violence agains't people that they did not have ties to, how many of these citizens used or perverted their religion to strengthen their cause, which was to use their children in this conflict, how many of them tried to convince their children to become suicide bombers, sent them to terrorist training camps, allowed them to take part in combat with their own nation soldiers fighting on the other side...I can't make any sense of the remainder of your post, AG. If you could say it again, just adding a few appropriate pronoun/noun references I would be pleased to answer your questions. Edited May 10, 2015 by Je suis Omar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Je suis Omar Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) You, you know who you are, obviously didn't listen to anything, and had you, you wouldn't have heard anything anyway because you have so bought into the lies from the biggest liars on the planet. A 95% conviction rate by USA prosecutors in their normal day to day "rule of law" society. Anyone who entertains for a brief second the most ludicrous notion ever, that Guantanamo, just another one of the USA's torture/disappear centers, has remotely ever approached the rule of law is a blithering idiot. The numbers tell all: https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/sites/default/files/gtmo-by-the-numbers.pdf Edited May 10, 2015 by Je suis Omar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 The fact that he's a terrorist is incidental.Terrorists don't attack soldiers. Terrorism by definition targets innocent civilians. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Terrorists don't attack soldiers. Terrorism by definition targets innocent civilians. So, he's just a run-of-mill murderer? Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Just because you father was a farmer (I presume), doesn't mean you should be a farmer.What about when your father takes you to an unfamiliar country when you're a child, puts you on a farm, and has you work on that farm knowing nothing else about what's out there, why he's doing it, or why you're there? You might just end up being a farmer since that would appear to be your only option. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Saw snippets of Khadr's press conference. He's had over 10 years to think about his upbringing and his actions. If he really wanted to win Canadians over, he would have spoken in terms of atoning for his actions - regretting that he was raised in a haze of terrorist dogma, apologizing for a family that put him in such an impossible position.....truly regretting that he caused the death of an innocent medic and wounding another.......I heard nothing about that. After all these years, he simply dismissed his past. After all these years - and the help of a lawyer to script his words - I heard nothing - no remorse for his actions..Then you weren't listening. He said he had a lot of questions for his father and why he raised them the way he did and why he brought them over there. He's also right that he can't go back and change the past, but try to live the best life he can going forward if people will give him a chance. He can't change the situation that he was put in by his family. All he can do is not make the same mistakes his father did. And that's what he said. Edited May 10, 2015 by cybercoma Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) I have no sticks or accolades to throw in any direction. What do people expect of any individual who has been tortured as a young man (no one disputes this), has spent the last 13 years in prison and has no idea what freedom of movement or freedom of speech entails. He has not been allowed to speak to the press for 13 years. He has not been able to make and follow through with any decision for 13 years. This person should be an absolute basket case. What would anybody expect from an individual who has been locked up from the age of 15 to 28? Is he now thinking clearly? Is he now capable of expressing his feelings? How is now supposed to earn a living? You mean to tell me someone who didn't go to high school and spent his formative years being tortured by the US government would probably have a difficult time articulating his thoughts clearly? You don't say. Edited May 10, 2015 by cybercoma Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 So, he's just a run-of-mill murderer?Do you call our soldiers murderers when they kill people in war zones? Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Do you call our soldiers murderers when they kill people in war zones? Look, we've already gone over this whole "americans are the worst people in the world" routine and "the middle east would be milk and honey if not for those damn yanks". ISIL, Hamas, Hezbollah, Boko Haram and all the other groups are just freedom fighters, and the US, Canadian and Brits are all the real terrorists - I get it! I still prefer to side with the west. If you choose to side with Islam, that's up to you. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Look, we've already gone over this whole "americans are the worst people in the world" routine and "the middle east would be milk and honey if not for those damn yanks". ISIL, Hamas, Hezbollah, Boko Haram and all the other groups are just freedom fighters, and the US, Canadian and Brits are all the real terrorists - I get it! I still prefer to side with the west. If you choose to side with Islam, that's up to you. Apparently you didnt understand the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Apparently you didnt understand the question. Because it's pretty obvious what she's going for. If I Khadr is a murderer, then all the Americans are murderers too. If the Americans are soldiers, then Khadr is merely a solider too. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Because it's pretty obvious what she's going for. If I Khadr is a murderer, then all the Americans are murderers too. If the Americans are soldiers, then Khadr is merely a solider too. People get killed in wars. If you dont want that to happen, dont start a war, especially an illegal one. But if you do, dont whine if someone gets killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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