bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Hmmmm....unsettled land claims and access to resources...why does that sound so familiar ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Israel is maintaining a military blockade. Thats a blatant act of war, so no... i wouldnt say they gave them "pretty much what they wanted". Gaza made that blockade necessary. Remember Shalid,rocket and suicide attacks? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
marcus Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 I see. So they should just ignore the rockets, is that your opinion? Maybe the Palestinians should just ignore that Israel is annexing their land and increasing the illegal settlements on their land. Perhaps they should also ignore that their water and other natural resources are being controlled and they receive only drips compared to what the settlers receive. The Palestinians should also ignore that the Israeli government has vowed (it's in its platform) to never allow a Palestinian State. The Palestinians should also ignore that their borders, air and sea is controlled by Israel. Should all of these just be ignored and keep the status quo going? Because the Zionist regime would love that to happen. Is this what you're suggesting? Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
jbg Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Should probably wipe them out. Maybe "concentrate" these animals into some kind of "camp" to make it easier. Godwin's law at work. But Jews in Germany and Poland were hurting no one. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Remiel Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Maybe if Hamas & Co. targetted identifiable settler leaders for assassination instead of just killing whomever happened to be available they would get the sympathy that often goes with being the occupied party. Quote
jbg Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Maybe if Hamas & Co. targetted identifiable settler leaders for assassination instead of just killing whomever happened to be available they would get the sympathy that often goes with being the occupied party.Probably better than just random killing. But remember these are people who get their thrills from killing helpless people. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Black Dog Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Godwin's law at work. Which doesn't make the comparison any less apt. I could have used many others, such as your own country's history with its imported African American population or the indigenous peoples of North America etc etc. But Jews in Germany and Poland were hurting no one. Neither are the majority of the 2 million Palestinians. But that's not the point. Dehumanizing your enemy is a time honoured tactic, a great way to cleanse the soul of any pesky guilty feelings that might rear up as you scroll past another photo of a dead 10 year old. Of course, your campaign to depict Muslims in general as some kind of untermenschen is longstanding. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 So Israel should just adopt Canada's strategy of bombing and killing "women and children" to protect their "human rights", "responsibility to protect", yada, yada, yada, all while never being attacked by a single rocket. Israel...hire Michael Ignatieff as a consultant !! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Neither are the majority of the 2 million Palestinians. But that's not the point. Dehumanizing your enemy is a time honoured tactic, a great way to cleanse the soul of any pesky guilty feelings that might rear up as you scroll past another photo of a dead 10 year old. Of course, your campaign to depict Muslims in general as some kind of untermenschen is longstanding.At a recent multi-faith community dinner to break fast on Ramadan, held at my synagogue, me and one other person with similar politics were the only ones to arrive with Muslim guests. Not one with your politics did. It's very easy to talk a good line. Walking the walk is a lot harder. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Black Dog Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 At a recent multi-faith community dinner to break fast on Ramadan, held at my synagogue, me and one other person with similar politics were the only ones to arrive with Muslim guests. Not one with your politics did. It's very easy to talk a good line. Walking the walk is a lot harder. So what you're saying is some of your best friends are Muslim? Tell me, do you talk to your alleged Muslim friends the way you talk about Muslims here? "I'm glad you guys could make it, what with me being a Jew and you guys being animals that don't value human life." Quote
jbg Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) So what you're saying is some of your best friends are Muslim?No. He's a next-door neighbor I'm on good terms with. Sort of like the U.S. and Canada. Tell me, do you talk to your alleged Muslim friends the way you talk about Muslims here? "I'm glad you guys could make it, what with me being a Jew and you guys being animals that don't value human life."He's no more sympathetic to the anamalistic behavior than I am. My point is that many so-called liberals do not have minority friends or work colleagues. I have both. Edited July 23, 2014 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Black Dog Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 No. He's a next-door neighbor I'm on good terms with. Sort of like the U.S. and Canada. He's no more sympathetic to the anamalistic behavior than I am. My point is that many so-called liberals do not have minority friends or work colleagues. I have both. Have you asked your neighbour about Muslims' inherent propensity for violence you've mentioned so many times here? And is that you know a Muslim supposed to make the stuff you write here somehow less repulsive? Because it's not working. Quote
Black Dog Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Back to the subject at hand: here's a good counternarrative with some backstory about how this most recent chapter in C:DF came about. Seeing a region swept by popular protests against leaders who couldn’t provide for their citizens’ basic needs, Hamas opted to give up official control of Gaza rather than risk being overthrown. Despite having won the last elections, in 2006, Hamas decided to transfer formal authority to the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah. That decision led to a reconciliation agreement between Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Organization, on terms set almost entirely by the P.L.O. chairman and Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas. Israel immediately sought to undermine the reconciliation agreement by preventing Hamas leaders and Gaza residents from obtaining the two most essential benefits of the deal: the payment of salaries to 43,000 civil servants who worked for the Hamas government and continue to administer Gaza under the new one, and the easing of the suffocating border closures imposed by Israel and Egypt that bar most Gazans’ passage to the outside world. Yet, in many ways, the reconciliation government could have served Israel’s interests. It offered Hamas’s political adversaries a foothold in Gaza; it was formed without a single Hamas member; it retained the same Ramallah-based prime minister, deputy prime ministers, finance minister and foreign minister; and, most important, it pledged to comply with the three conditions for Western aid long demanded by America and its European allies: nonviolence, adherence to past agreements and recognition of Israel. Israel strongly opposed American recognition of the new government, however, and sought to isolate it internationally, seeing any small step toward Palestinian unity as a threat. Israel’s security establishment objects to the strengthening of West Bank-Gaza ties, lest Hamas raise its head in the West Bank. And Israelis who oppose a two-state solution understand that a unified Palestinian leadership is a prerequisite for any lasting peace. Edited July 23, 2014 by Black Dog Quote
marcus Posted July 24, 2014 Report Posted July 24, 2014 Ali Abunimah is a leading Palestinian public intellectual--here in this debate on Democracy Now he dismantles the increasingly wobbly position of liberal Zionists who have for years been lubricating the harsher edges of hard core Zionists with their gentler and kinder justification of the Jewish apartheid state--more than anything else this debate shows the deep moral crisis that liberal Zionism has faced for decades trying in vain to justify the unjustifiable--do watch it! Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
The_Squid Posted July 25, 2014 Report Posted July 25, 2014 Israeli airstrike hits school that housed displaced civilians run by UN. Kills 16. Wounds 200. UN was trying to negotiate a ceasefire in the area with Israel to give them time to evacuate the women and children. Israel uses a bomb to emphatically say "no deal". http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/24/israeli-strike-un-school-gaza-kills-women-children Quote
GostHacked Posted July 25, 2014 Report Posted July 25, 2014 Israeli airstrike hits school that housed displaced civilians run by UN. Kills 16. Wounds 200. UN was trying to negotiate a ceasefire in the area with Israel to give them time to evacuate the women and children. Israel uses a bomb to emphatically say "no deal". It's gonna be hard to play this one off as a 'human shield' thing. But they will try. Quote
jacee Posted July 25, 2014 Report Posted July 25, 2014 They 'haven't ruled out' that Hamas did it. Israel's attacks are stoking West Bank support for Hamas: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-07/24/c_133508810.htm There's a growing sensation of Hamas pride in the West Bank compared to a disappointment from Abbas's failed approach of peace talks that didn't achieve tangible results," Quote
Rue Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Well then Jacee and her rolling eyed icon,Squid and Ghost have it all figured out. There is only one truth and its their API wire story version. Isn't that nice. We sit thousands of miles from the conflict zone and rely on "truth" from an internet wire story. Y Yes sir they have it all figured out. Its simple really and they have it all figured out so much so Jacee is sending little rolling eyed faces. According to the IDF and now verified by the International Red Cross and UNWRA, Israel in fact tried for 2 days prior to the attack in question to have the civilians of the Bet Hanoun area including where that school is,evacuated. Hamas refused. There were repeated warnings for two days and prior to the shelling and Hamas would not let the civilians leave the building or the area and were shooting missiles from the area and in particular from the vicinity of the building. UNWRA in the last week has admitted 4 times its buildings are being used by Hamas to launch missiles and store weapons. What was its response to that-no problem, it gave the missiles back to Hamas and refused to take pictures of the storage sites in its buildings even though it admits they were there because it doesn't want Hamas prosecuted for war crimes with such pictures. In the last strike even UNWRA admitted missiles were being launched from the area bombed by Israel and that there were missile in the building blown up. But hey,Jacee et al have it all figured out. In fact the IAF is not allowed when called to by ground forces to come to the aid of the IDF fighting on the ground. Its been ordered not to fire so as to not kill civilians and because it does not IDF soldiers are dying on the ground so Palestinian civilians do not. These arm chair experts have no idea why IDF soldiers die-they die preventing Palestinian civilian death. The fact in such a highly populated area the death rate is what it is , is testament to trying not to kill civilians. Any other nation would have flattened all of Gaza years ago. Interesting how these arm chair experts have it all figured out and can not for a second even bring themselves to ask whetehr Hamas or the UNWRA had any role in this latest fiasco. Its not how it works you see. We just read a wire story and blame it all on Israel. So much easier.. Edited July 25, 2014 by Rue Quote
Big Guy Posted July 25, 2014 Report Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) oops! Edited July 25, 2014 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Rue Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Posted July 25, 2014 Ah but wait.Blackdog has found an editorial that reflects his subjective opinion and so he thinks I ts a "good counternarrative". No source quoted of course. When I yped on the word "here's" it appears to be from the New York Times but it won't display the article. But hey itsn't that the sameNew York Times which is controlled by the Jewish world conspiracy Blackdog? Amazing how that works. The Ne York Times running an editorial piece, so it must be truthful I mean come on would Zionist world controllers run such a story if it wasn't full of merit? Oh say now excuse the sarcasm this fine morning but I do have a response to it. What an absurd and stupid article. One of the most stupid I have read in years. According to Mahmoud Al Zahar one of Hamas'most prominent leader he stated to the Western and Palestinian media in regards to the unity deal that: 1-Abbas only sought the deal to put heat on Israel; 2-Abbas is a liar when he said he would recognize Israel; 3-the unity agreement means nothing, Hamas still vows to fight on until Israel is liberated and remains in charge of its "military" wing and would be free to bring the continuing war back to the West Bank. Now of course Israel is unreasonable. Why would it not want to recognize a terrorist group who calls Abbas openly a liar. Better still, why wouldn't Israel recognize a terrorist group that is in a state of terror and war against Israel and has indicated it will never stop until Israel is taken back. Of course, that's someone you want to recognize as a partner in peace. Makes sense. I mean why would you do what Netanyahu does and say, I will not recognize you unless you recognize my rights as equal to yours. Why why why. I mean come on now. Why would anyone expect such a thing. You see in the reasoning of this bloody stupid article, Hamas is a reasonable entity. Its not terrorist, Its not dedicated to blowing up Israel. Its just a bunch of boy scouts who want peace. As for Mr.Abbas oh come on, let's repeat his lie again that he wants to recognize Israel. Maybe if we repeat that over and over people will believe that too. Mr. Abbas has stated he will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state. He has stated he will recognize Israel as a non Jewish state on the precondition it takes back with automatic citizenship in unlimited numbers, any Arab of the Middle East as long as they are not Jewish and as long as those Arabs self identify as Palestinian. In otherwords, he will recognize Israel if it turns into a Muslim majority population state. Now then. We have Hamas with a Charter that calls for the murder of Jews worldwide until Israel is taken back, yes sir, that's someone Israel was a fool not to enter a peace agreement with. But wait, Mr.Abbas? Oh now come on he's a moderate. This is a man who stated to the Western press and in his media that there is no Jewish Temple in Jerusalem and Jews made that up. This is a man who stood up in his assembly and cheered on his fellow member as he chanted death to Israel. This is a man who wrote his doctorate thesis in Moscow on how the holocaust never happened. This is a man who has stated repeatedly to Al Jazeera an the Arab media that Israel is only temporary and one day will be returned to the Palestinian people. Oh but wait, the PA? Oh let's talk shall we. Now you see Israel is evil. It claims its a Jewish state. The PA? Well golly gee read their charter. Know what it it says? It says its nation is a MUSLIM nation and citizens must take allegiance to Mohammed and the nation follows Sharia Law. Now you see how that works. Muslims have Muslim states with Muslim law. Jews? What them have a Jewish state. No no Only Muslims. Well ok the Hindus can have India. Ok wait, England is an Anglican state. On wait the Vatican is a Catholic state as is Ireland, many of the South American nations. Oh and you know those Bhuddists, they seem to think they have some affiliation with the state of Thailand. But hey oh wait, those Bhuddists in Nepal, well at least they were crushed. Yes so you see its simple.Muslims can have Muslim states. Jews no no no no no.When Muslims impose sharia law on their non Muslims and this means treating them as dhimmi, i.e., second class citizens not capable ofowning land, testifying in court,engaging in business with a Muslim unless they use an intermediary Muslim to talk for them and of course pay that Muslim, oh well come on that's not apartheid. But you know what is-well Israel. You know why? Because it affords its Muslim and Christian citizens the same land rights as Jewish Israeli citizens. It guarantees their right to be served by the government in Arabic. It allows them to elect Arab politicians. It appoints Arab Judges. It provides Muslim Arabs the highest standard of living in the entire Middle East and all the rights a non Muslim can not have in a sharia law nation. But hey, they are racist you know. Not only that those Zionist Jews are unreasonable. They won't recognize terrorists who want to kill them. Yoohoo Mr.Hamas let's sit and talk. How would you like to kill me Mr. Hamas. Excuse me while I puke blue and white at yet another editorial on dealing with Hamas. Quote
Big Guy Posted July 25, 2014 Report Posted July 25, 2014 The argument that Israel used for invading Gaza was that those rockets (not missiles) shot by the Palestinian Keystone Kops Rocket Society (PKKRS) were endangering Israelis and that aggression was making Israelis in danger of their lives. This is the reason that Gaza had to be invaded and about 1000 Palestinian civilians killed. But it appears that danger is not dangerous enough for airplanes to land safely in Israel. This does not make sense. Either those rockets sent into Israel by those targeting experts of the PKKRS are accurate to where they are targeting civilians and can hit a large airport or these flying, armed sewer pipes are no serious threat to Israel. Which is it? The Palestinians are getting wiped out on the ground but winning the PR war. Criticism of Israel from the UN and most of the rest of the world is increasing. I wonder which war will prove to be the more decisive. Meanwhile, Palestinian families are relatively large. Revenge for the murder of family members is a strong part of their culture. I wonder how many future suicide bombers are being created with every civilian killed. I believe that this latest tactic by Israel is a mistake. It is like fighting a Hydra and the Israelis do not have a Hercules in reserve. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Rue Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) So there we have it Big Guy. Its black and white. Israel is not allowed to fight back and prevent missiles from being shot down and its not endangered and at war unless it agrees to close its airport. Yep that makes perfect sense. Did it ever dawn on you that nations at war can and do leave their airports open? Are you that absurd? Ok so let me get this straight,London during world war two was not in danger because its flights continued even as London was bombed. What got into your head that Israel or any nation at war can not leave its airports open and if it does, it means its not at war or being endangered? What a foolish thing to state. Can you please at least give a moment of thought to such a contention before you write it. The fact that Hamas has not been successful in getting a missile in at the Tel Aviv airport does not mean they haven't tried. Israel is paying a fortune to maintain an Iron Dome defense system. Each day 34'sof its population every ten minutes or so are forced to head to bomb shelters and you claim there's no anger because the airport remains open? Gevalt. Edited July 25, 2014 by Rue Quote
Black Dog Posted July 25, 2014 Report Posted July 25, 2014 Rue: maybe people would give you the time of day if you learned to write more concisely, used proper spelling and grammar, and actually had a coherent thought embedded somewhere (anywhere!) in your word-barf posts. But I suspect we'll see lasting peace in the Middle East before you can manage something like that. Quote
GostHacked Posted July 25, 2014 Report Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Well then Jacee and her rolling eyed icon,Squid and Ghost have it all figured out. There is only one truth and its their API wire story version. If Hamas did not do it, who else would have? Israel. I will also add, that now you know why there were the flight bans. Not because of Hamas shooting rockets, it's because Israel did not want people flying in to see the amount of hell they just unleashed on Gaza. Nice way to control the message getting out to the media. Also notice that even if Hamas is suspected of something, they are automatically to blame. But now that Israel bombed the UN facility, all of a sudden it's a matter of 'let's wait for the evidence'. No one is buying it anymore. Edited July 25, 2014 by GostHacked Quote
GostHacked Posted July 25, 2014 Report Posted July 25, 2014 Same schtick Israel pulled with the white phosphorus a few years back. Riding the legality line with that one. Let's also mention the flechette bombs that Israel has been throwing at Gaza. Quote
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