jbg Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 I suspect strongly that Israel will prosecute this as the crime of murder. Israel is a country ruled by law, not by beasts man, unlike the areas ruled by Hamas, ISIS and the "Palestinian Authority."And that will stop the killing of the innocents?More likely than if the brutality is not punished or the arrested terrorists are allowed to "escape." Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Hudson Jones Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 How would you feel if Israel dropped "targeted assassinations" and switched to "fighting" students, babies and other helpless people? The so-called "targeted assassinations" end up killing students, babies and helpless people as mentioned earlier. 10 people, in which 8 have been children have been killed by the IDF and settler terrorists in the past two weeks. Israel only applies the rule of law onto its Jewish citizens. When it comes to Palestinian Israelis and the occupied Palestinians, there is no law. The law is either non-existent or the law is easily molded into not punishing the violations of human rights against the non-Jews. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Shady Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 The so-called "targeted assassinations" end up killing students, babies and helpless people as mentioned earlier. That's because the gutless PA and Hamas leaders use schools and hospital as part of their military apparatus. Quote
Hudson Jones Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 I don't think I'm out of line. Again, here's your quote: "The more radical and extremist they are against the Zionist apartheid regime, the better." You need to own up to your own statements. I used to agree with what you are saying. Now, I'm not so sure. Would you have expected the Jews in Europe to show no response to the occupiers? Except for a few, Israeli governments have shown that do not care for negotiations. Israel has shown that it doesn't care for international law and human rights if it gets in the way of its expansionism and its treatment of the Palestinians. Just like the South African Apartheid government, Israel needs to be side-stepped. International pressure will continue to grow and support for the resistance against the occupier should be supported, as long as we're not seeing babies being blown up. Settlers, such as the ones in Hebron are the most aggressive and abusive zealots. They are illegally occupying land and should be seen as part of the destructive occupation that needs to be stopped. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hudson Jones Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 That's because the gutless PA and Hamas leaders use schools and hospital as part of their military apparatus. Your lack of original thoughts and mimicking of superficial, unrelated comments, released by the Israeli PR machine do not warrant a debate. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Shady Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 Your lack of original thoughts and mimicking of superficial, unrelated comments, released by the Israeli PR machine do not warrant a debate. No, they're actual facts. Hamas and the PA even use ambulances to transport weapons and men. You can't break the rules of war, and then whine about the casualties that are the result of it. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 The penalty for occupying land is not murder. Would it also be acceptable if Canada's "PalestIndians" began rocket attacks, suicide bombing, and kidnappings/murders to regain their "occupied land" ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 No, they're actual facts. Hamas and the PA even use ambulances to transport weapons and men. You can't break the rules of war, and then whine about the casualties that are the result of it. Which one of the 10 people who have been killed were as a result of PA and Hamas hiding in hospitals/ambulances/blah blah? None. You are regurgitating untrue statements that are used every time Israel kills innocent people. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hudson Jones Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 The penalty for occupying land is not murder. What's the penalty of occupying land, annexing land and murdering those who are being occupied? Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 I ask again....Would it also be acceptable if Canada's "PalestIndians" began rocket attacks, suicide bombing, and kidnappings/murders to regain their "occupied land" ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 I ask again....Would it also be acceptable if Canada's "PalestIndians" began rocket attacks, suicide bombing, and kidnappings/murders to regain their "occupied land" ? No. Different situations and the treatment of the aboriginals by Canada is much different than the treatment of Palestinians by the Israelis. I ask again: What's the penalty of occupying land, annexing land and murdering those who are being occupied? Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 2, 2014 Report Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) No. Different situations and the treatment of the aboriginals by Canada is much different than the treatment of Palestinians by the Israelis. Not so different...the "Crown" has the land and established the "aboriginal" reserve system that worked so well, South Africa copied it. I ask again: What's the penalty of occupying land, annexing land and murdering those who are being occupied? Depends on the jurisdiction....civil suits, criminal prosecution, fines, etc. Murdering teens not so much. Rocket attacks...bad move. Suicide bombings...very messy and ineffective. Edited July 2, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Rue Posted July 3, 2014 Author Report Posted July 3, 2014 16 year-old Mohammed Abu Khudair was found dead in East Jerusalem, the victim of what appears to be a price tag attack following the killing of three Israeli teenagers on the West Bank. He was the 10th Palestinian killed by the IDF or right-wing extremists in the last two weeks. Please provide the documentation for the 10 killings by the IDF or right wing extremists and indicate how they were in fact deliberate. Thanks. You are the second to make such allegations with zero proof. Quote
Rue Posted July 3, 2014 Author Report Posted July 3, 2014 1-Rue, see my post to Michael Hardner, then respond to what I've said there. I'm not inferring to you that you are of the same high character as Michael but I think my words still apply. If you contain any moral character whatsoever you will address that which I've said and stop your kneejerk grade school level babbling. 2-I stand by my words: The Palestinian people must use every means at their disposal to fight back against that evil apartheid regime. 2-Ask me for examples if you don't understand what I'm saying. 3-And the only reason why you don't understand me is because we differ on which side is the side of righteousness. In regards to 1; your getting personal with me and being insulting and suggesting I have no moral character is the very kind of responses you complain you are receiving from others on this forum and have complained to the moderator about-the fact you lash back at me with personal insults I fully expected; In regards to 2; I did ask for you to clarify your statement and you have now made it clear you support terrorism as a legitimate means of response; Inr egards to 3; you are completely and utterly mistaken. I have never come on this board like you and claimed to know what is moral righteousness let alone justify and advocate terrorism as a reasonable political expression as you do and then claim this is a morally righteous position as you are. Each and every one of my posts has never once engaged in morality lectures as you engage in. The silence from Hudson Jones as to the allegations he levelled at Israel speak for themselves. Quote
Argus Posted July 3, 2014 Report Posted July 3, 2014 Michael Hardner: Not at all Michael, Apartheid and Nazi tactics against a people can always be legitimately countered with violence. Unless the fascist regime practicing apartheid is Russia. Then it's to be admired. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 3, 2014 Report Posted July 3, 2014 No. Different situations and the treatment of the aboriginals by Canada is much different than the treatment of Palestinians by the Israelis. Now it is. Prior to the Intifada many, many Palestinians traveled freely back and forth from Israel to work. When the suicide attacks started and continued, however, things got much harder on them. And if you don't think things would get much harsher for natives in Canada if they did the same you're dreaming. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
monty16 Posted July 3, 2014 Report Posted July 3, 2014 At least it's being discussed. and as long as it's being discussed there are some truths that will come out of it all. Hudson is right and what he says could apply for both sides. What isn't right is that some of the rhetoric against the Palestinian people is just onesided and the Zionist apologists can't come to understand that they're being hypocritical about it by picking sides. I see now that Michael Hardner is not going to be able to rise above the rabble on the issue. I'm ashamed to think that he ever was. Being critical of the Zionist's apartheid regime always seems to bring quick censorship on a forum such as this. I don't expect this forum to be much different but I could be surprised. There's little doubt the waters have to be tested because it's supporting genocide against a people if one doesn't. Here's an idea though, if it hurts your sensibilities then substitute Saddam Hussein in any place where I use the Zionist term and it will immediately make it all right again. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted July 3, 2014 Report Posted July 3, 2014 I haven't commented on the issue - I have commented on your statements and tried without success for you to own up to them. Read my posts again, they are directed at your encouragement of extremism and they ask you to clarify your views. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
GostHacked Posted July 3, 2014 Report Posted July 3, 2014 No, they're actual facts. Hamas and the PA even use ambulances to transport weapons and men. You can't break the rules of war, and then whine about the casualties that are the result of it. Rules of war? There are no rules of war. Only rules of engagement. Not to mention war is detrimental to the whole planet. Quote
monty16 Posted July 3, 2014 Report Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) Michael Hardner, I'm gong to pay both you and Rue the courtesy of an answer to your ridiculous ramblings and mad accusations against me. It's against my better judgment but the noise level is starting to get annoying. So, I said: The American people must use every means at their disposal to fight back against the evil Muslim terrorists. Get it? I mean, there's really only one way of dealing with stupidity isn't there!. And once again, I would like to hear your criticisms of that statement. Edited July 3, 2014 by monty16 Quote
Shady Posted July 3, 2014 Report Posted July 3, 2014 Rules of war? There are no rules of war. Only rules of engagement. Not to mention war is detrimental to the whole planet. The Geneva conventions. Quote
GostHacked Posted July 3, 2014 Report Posted July 3, 2014 The Geneva conventions. Even those conventions have gone out the door. The US invasion of Iraq in 2003 was because of policy, not because they were attacked in any way by Iraq. Talk about war crimes, leaving a complete security void after the fall of Hussein. Only to now allow the rise of more extremism than Al-Queda ever could be. So, no the Geneva conventions have no teeth either. When it all comes down to it war is a crime against humanity, period. Quote
GostHacked Posted July 3, 2014 Report Posted July 3, 2014 The situation in Ukraine shows that Russia can do the same thing, with little consequence. So again, Geneva Conventions do not mean a damn thing. Quote
monty16 Posted July 3, 2014 Report Posted July 3, 2014 Even though I still maintain that you're propagandized by the US and can't see the truth in what's happening in the Ukraine, I can't criticize you for taking the high road in that comment. Now just try to stick with it. When you get some spare time try reading up on Security Council resolutions for the last ten years, and also failed resolutions. You'll come out of the experience a much smarter man. Not to suggest that you're not already smart, just that you've not been able to rise above US propaganda. Quote
Big Guy Posted July 3, 2014 Report Posted July 3, 2014 The Geneva conventions. The Geneva Conventions are referenced quite often to try to prove one point or another. They are not what most people, assume them to be. I respectfully suggest that one reads them (a large read) before using them as a reference. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
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