Trudeau Jnr adopts Wedge Politics

[August1991]

About 60% of Canadians support the right of a woman to choose to have an abortion or not. Link

To win an election, you need many people on your side. Trudeau Jnr is choosing the popular side, and he's trying to paint his opponent into the opposing side.

In this, Trudeau Jnr is trying to do the same as Pauline Marois, George W. Bush and Stephen Harper once did. "You vote for me, or you vote for the terrorists."

Wedge politics are typically a false dichotomy, usually on an emotional issue. I think Trudeau Jnr may have this one right though because:

a) it forces Harper into a pickle

it wins Liberal votes in Quebec (charter values etc)

c) Trudeau Jnr doesn't lose his Ontario base

d) the wavering NDP goes back to Liberal base

[Keepitsimple]

We'll just have to wait and see. The next few polls will be interesting......

[The_Squid]

There is already a topic about this. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/23576-pro-life-then-dont-run-under-liberal-banner/

[Topaz]

Correct me if I'm wrong but both the NDP and the Libs are pro choice, were as if the Tory party had to toe what Harper believes, they would be against a women to choose, which is his choice and that's why he won't open a debate because it would divide probably all parties.

[Keepitsimple]

Correct me if I'm wrong but both the NDP and the Libs are pro choice, were as if the Tory party had to toe what Harper believes, they would be against a women to choose, which is his choice and that's why he won't open a debate because it would divide probably all parties.

Would it surprise you to find out that Harper's personal beliefs are pro-choice? Would it change your view of him? Would you acknowledge that he's been villified for no reason? Didn't think so. Here's an article from a pro-life news outlet:

Stephen Harper is in no way a friend of the pro-life movement

.............skip...........

Just to ensure that you don’t think I’m engaging in hyperbole, let’s review Harper’s record on abortion:

1. In 2002, Stephen Harper used the abortion issue to attack pro-life candidates in the Canadian Alliance leadership race, while attempting to claim that he was simultaneously somehow “pro-life.” However, he ran against candidates Stockwell Day, Grant Hill, and Diane Ablonczy in part by attacking the social conservatism and specifically their stance on the abortion issue.

2. In 2004 as leader of the newly formed Conservative Party, Stephen Harper begrudgingly said he would allow a “free vote” on the abortion issue (something the federal Liberals do as well), but referred to abortion as “a woman’s right to choose,” clearly highlighting his pro-abortion views on the matter. During the English Election debate on June 15 of the same year, Harper declared that, “I will not have legislation limiting a woman’s right to choose.”

3.At the March 2005 Conservative policy convention, Stephen Harper noted in his speech that “as prime minister, I will not bring forth legislation on the issue of abortion.” According to LifeSiteNews: “This speech…is said to have produced a successful, although narrow passage of the motion that officially shut down abortion debate in the party and which has been used as a club to silence pro-life candidates and members of caucus.”

4.On December 11, 2005, Harper wrote a letter to the Washington Times. He writes toward the end of the letter that, “a new Conservative government will not initiate or support any effort to pass legislation restricting abortion in Canada.”

5.On March 1, 2006, shortly after his election, Harper told Maclean’s Magazine that, “In my entire career, I’ve made it clear that I have no intention of getting into the abortion issue. It has not been my issue in my entire career. And it won’t be in the future.”

6.In 2008, LifeSiteNews reported that, “Harper’s Justice Minister, Rob Nicholson, effectively scuttled a private members bill that sought to protect unborn victims of violence, by pledging to introduce his own gutted version that would merely list pregnancy as an aggravating factor at sentencing. Nicholson alleged that protecting wanted babies would risk ‘instilling fetal rights.’”

7.On December 15, 2010, Harper voted against Roxanne’s Law (Bill C-150), a bill that would ban Canadians from coercing women into an abortion.

8. On April 4, 2011, Harper assured a reporter asking about the abortion issue that, “Our agenda is the same agenda with a majority government or a minority government.”

9.In April of 2012, Harper not only promised to vote against MP Stephen Woodworth’s Motion 312 to examine when life begins, but noted during Question Period that it was “unfortunate” that the motion had even been deemed votable.

10. In response to a letter to the RCMP by three Conservative backbenchers requesting an investigation into the discovery that between 2000 and 2009, 491 babies had been born alive following abortion procedures and left out to die, Harper stated in the House of Commons that; “All members of this House, whether they agree with it or not, understand that abortion is legal in Canada and this government, myself included, have made it very clear that the government does not intend to change the law in this regard.”

There’s more, of course, but I think I’ve made my point. Stephen Harper is in no way a friend of the pro-life movement, and is fond of telling us that he is our enemy. He has given us not the slightest reason to support him.

Link: http://www.lifesitenews.com/blog/stephen-harper-is-in-no-way-a-friend-of-the-pro-life-movement

[August1991]

There is already a topic about this. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/23576-pro-life-then-dont-run-under-liberal-banner/

Fair point but this thread is specifically about Trudeau Jnr using a strategy of wedge politics.

And Topaz and KeepItSimple both show why the strategy puts Harper in a pickle. I somehow doubt that the 2015 election will turn on abortion but the mere fact that Trudeau Jnr has adopted this approach shows me that he's not quite the fool. Some pretend. That, in addition to the way Liberals are now raising money -Gerstein style.

Edited June 3, 2014 by August1991

[PIK]

About 60% of Canadians support the right of a woman to choose to have an abortion or not. Link

To win an election, you need many people on your side. Trudeau Jnr is choosing the popular side, and he's trying to paint his opponent into the opposing side.

In this, Trudeau Jnr is trying to do the same as Pauline Marois, George W. Bush and Stephen Harper once did. "You vote for me, or you vote for the terrorists."

Wedge politics are typically a false dichotomy, usually on an emotional issue. I think Trudeau Jnr may have this one right though because:

a) it forces Harper into a pickle

it wins Liberal votes in Quebec (charter values etc)

c) Trudeau Jnr doesn't lose his Ontario base

d) the wavering NDP goes back to Liberal base

It does not force harper into a pickle because he has been clear on that. Does it win votes in a catholic quebec? And how many older libs will go towards harper?

[Remiel]

For how many years have Liberal opponents been crying about lack of principles, now that the party stands on a very liberal principle suddenly they are engaged in wedge politics? Wedged between what? People who are politically liberal and those who are not?

[Topaz]

IF Harper IS pro-choice then he's gone against his religion and I don't think he do that, do you? Is he for or against marijuana? Can the PM separate church from state?

[Keepitsimple]

IF Harper IS pro-choice then he's gone against his religion and I don't think he do that, do you? Is he for or against marijuana? Can the PM separate church from state?

Are you trying be tongue in cheek - or was that a real question? Why is Trudeau (or Martin or Chretien) allowed to "go against his religion" and Harper is not? Now that you understand that Harper is pro-choice and is willing to "go against his religion", perhaps you can start to believe that he is not the religious zeolot that the Left make him out to be. He's simply a quiet, private man who believes in God and goes to Church on Sunday, whenever he can. Is that such a bad thing?

[Bob Macadoo]

Are you trying be tongue in cheek - or was that a real question? Why is Trudeau (or Martin or Chretien) allowed to "go against his religion" and Harper is not? Now that you understand that Harper is pro-choice and is willing to "go against his religion", perhaps you can start to believe that he is not the religious zeolot that the Left make him out to be. He's simply a quiet, private man who believes in God and goes to Church on Sunday, whenever he can. Is that such a bad thing?

Harper's a born-again not a lax catholic would be my response to that. I would believe more in the convictions to non-drinking from an AA member rather than a someone going cold turkey alone.

[cindi]

IF Harper IS pro-choice then he's gone against his religion and I don't think he do that, do you? Is he for or against marijuana? Can the PM separate church from state?

Justin Trudeau has gone against his religion so technically should be excommunicated.

[cindi]

Are you trying be tongue in cheek - or was that a real question? Why is Trudeau (or Martin or Chretien) allowed to "go against his religion" and Harper is not? Now that you understand that Harper is pro-choice and is willing to "go against his religion", perhaps you can start to believe that he is not the religious zeolot that the Left make him out to be. He's simply a quiet, private man who believes in God and goes to Church on Sunday, whenever he can. Is that such a bad thing?

I have often wondered why Harper is considered a religious zealot when he never ever discusses his religion. Trudeau and other leaders go to church professing to be Roman Catholics, a religion that has some pretty far out beliefs. e.g. transubstantiation and is zealously anti abortion. Why is Harper treated differently ?

[monty16]

As is typical of the rabid right, Harper only takes a side when he knows it's popular. At least until they are elected and then they show their true colours. It's never a matter of principal with the frothing at the mouth conservative, it's a matter of profits for them and their supporters while ignoring the social values for which Canada has always stood.

[Smallc]

That's typical of a populist, actually.

[Bob Macadoo]

That's typical of a populist, actually.

You and your literal logic.......

[On Guard for Thee]

It does not force harper into a pickle because he has been clear on that. Does it win votes in a catholic quebec? And how many older libs will go towards harper?

I don't know it it forces him into "a pickle" but it does make him look weak. His position seems to be he has no position other than he won't open the debate. As in just hide.

[monty16]

Trudeau's mission is accomplished for now. He can take the socially responsible position of seeing abortions as not a preferred outcome but still a woman's choice and then campaign on fixing the problem. Unfortunately for the Conservatives, they don't understand what that is all about.

Obvious! When's the last time anyone heard a conservative promote that sort of position?

[scribblet]

....... Unfortunately for the Conservatives, they don't understand what that is all about.

Obvious! When's the last time anyone heard a conservative promote that sort of position?

Really - and you know that - how ?

[monty16]

Well then, when's the last time you heard a conservative expressing concern over social reponsiblity of government. They simply don't believe in it because they think it's going to steal some of their money. Witness the sick gong show south of the border.

[Shady]

Looks like Justin is on the fringe of this issue...

Seven in Ten (70%) Say Trudeau Wrong to Exclude Potential Liberal Candidates based on Abortion Beliefs

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=6533

[cybercoma]

Good thing he didn't say he was excluding candidates based on abortion beliefs. He said future candidates will be expected to govern based on Canadians rights and freedoms. Those that would put their personal beliefs before the rights of others need not apply.

[monty16]

Good thing he didn't say he was excluding candidates based on abortion beliefs. He said future candidates will be expected to govern based on Canadians rights and freedoms. Those that would put their personal beliefs before the rights of others need not apply.

Exactly! the reason why most *Americans don't understand Trudeau is because they hate women and they love their imaginary god so much that they think he cares about destroying sperm cells. In fact, half of them think birth control measures kill babies. Why should Canadians pay any attention to that crap?

Trudeau talks over their heads and that's why they've got their piss in a knot over it all.

*includes alberta

[Guest]

Actually, Trudeau has surprised me with some common sense positions, on pipelines and assisted suicide.

Last I heard, anyway.

[Keepitsimple]

Good thing he didn't say he was excluding candidates based on abortion beliefs. He said future candidates will be expected to govern based on Canadians rights and freedoms. Those that would put their personal beliefs before the rights of others need not apply.

Sorry - that's not what he said. He used the Charter argument after the fact - to try and once again, extract his foot from his mouth........

Federal Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau recently announced that all new prospective candidates for the Liberal Party in the future must agree to vote in favour of a woman's right to choose whenever votes about abortion arise in the House of Commons. Without agreeing ahead of time, one’s candidacy to run for the Liberal Party could be declined.