Topaz Posted June 1, 2014 Report Share Posted June 1, 2014 How many on here have lost their jobs? How easy was it to find another at the same wage? Some workers have paid into EI for years and if or when a person over 50 loses theirs, finding another is not easy. EI may not even cover one`s bills, its a very stressful time. IF some of these workers Hudak is talking about can retire, then the very fact they haven`t probably tells us they can`t afford too, out sourcing some of these jobs may not be the answer either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2014 Public servants have pretty decent pensions. They can retire earlier than most in the private sector can even imagine. How about all those manufacturing jobs lost because of this government's policies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 BS from the unions is all this is. He is not cutting 10-20thousand teachers ,why can't the unions for once tell the truth. Why because they know the truth prove hudak is right.If you can read my post I mentioned 10,000 to 20,000 educational support workers...not teachers. Hudak's own words were he'd "give 10,000 educational support workers their pink slips." This alone would be a massive blow to almost every child in Ontario, as class sizes grow and special needs children rob average children of instructional time. However, to hit his massive 100,000 fewer public sector jobs target he will certainly have to trim more from education than just 10,000 support workers. I wanted change....but Hudak's ridiculous platform is too dangerous to support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 You really don't know where he would cut. You are simply speculating.Hudak himself claimed he would give 10,000 educational support workers alone their pink slips Then these people should not be in regular classrooms in regular schools. They should, and I am not trying to be cruel here, ride the special bus to the special school, so they do not impede the learning of others.You have a point here....one that is complete at odds with the jackass at the help of the Ontario PC party. The cost of special schools, the required transportation along with the teachers and support workers is completely cost prohibitive. A sensible compromise is the current situation which includes educational support workers, special classes within existing schools and part time integration in regular classes where appropriate. Unfortunately, Hudak will be erasing the positions for the people who work with the thousands of kids in these situations so they will end up in regular classrooms, full time, without extra support. Hence, my opposition to his inane plans. Really? Do you have a cite for that? It seems to me that if you're screwed up enough that you have to have your own support worker in class you're not very likely to be an architect or engineer some day.What an absolutely ignorant comment. I suspect you don't even realize the magnitude of the information you're asking for. Try this site (http://lmgtfy.com/) with one keyword from this list (ASD, ODD, ADHD, NVLD, CAPD, SAD) combined with the phrases 'education' and 'thrive'. Oh...and my pharmacist has Asperger Syndrome and Autistic Spectrum Disorder. He's making well over 100G. My autistic cousin is an iron ring wearing engineer. Do a search for famous autistic people and you'll be amazed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) Remove them from those classes and put them into a special school. Great solution! If it wasn't drastically more expensive than our current model of special classes and support within existing schools. Then again, what about the large number of special needs students that can function in normal classes for part of the day? Should we still pay to bus them all over, to expensive special schools or should we use the educational support workers for those times that they need to be out of the room? You know, those workers that Tim wants to let go? Edited June 2, 2014 by Mighty AC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 The problem is the Liberals, like many on the Left, have never learned how to differentiate between a necessary service, and a service which, while not necessary, would be helpful, or at least 'nic' or 'good' or whatever term you wish to use. This explains how sevices have grown and grown over the years. Every time a new service is introduced and people use it there is an outrcry over reducing or eliminating this service. But every election, politicians make promises for new services, new 'nice things' but rarey, if every cancel the old ones. As services multiply, so do employees, and so does the budget. Eventually, someone like Harris or Hudak has to come along with an axe and hack away at these services or we will all be strangled by red tape and debt. I am all for measured and sensible cuts to both education and public services in general. Unfortunately, that's not what Hudak is proposing. On the education front we should be discussing the the end of public funding for separate religious education. We should be scrapping the EQAO. We should be merging school boards and fixing compensation gains to the rate of inflation. There are dozens of sensible cuts that can be discussed, yet your man Tim has chosen to go after front line support workers. Like I said...I wanted change but Hudak's plan is too stupid and dangerous to support. Now, I'm stuck having to support the status quo in an attempt to avoid a dangerous fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Is there a cite for Hudak detailing exactly which public servants he'd fire? I suspect there's just a lot of conjecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 What the unions are saying is different then what hudak is saying. We have lost a lot of great union jobs in ONT because of the liberal's,but I guess those don't count. Just like the OPP attack ad, it is all BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Since the Liberals and the supporters are lying I suppose someone should take out an ad that says Wynne enjoys punching kittens. It's about as accurate as anything we've heard from Working Families and the Liberals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Since the Liberals and the supporters are lying I suppose someone should take out an ad that says Wynne enjoys punching kittens. It's about as accurate as anything we've heard from Working Families and the Liberals.Hey if Hudak can make up his 8 zillion jobs plan without checking in with reality......the largest liability to the PC gov't since......well the last time he opened his mouth in a campaign.A sock with googly eyes glued on it could win this election......and this goof isn't even going to get a minority status......unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Hudak is going to win this election from the looks of it. The pollsters whose methodology uses likely voters have them ahead. In other words, the people that are actually going to vote are going to vote PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 Hudak is going to win this election from the looks of it. The pollsters whose methodology uses likely voters have them ahead. In other words, the people that are actually going to vote are going to vote PC. http://www.threehundredeight.com/ Are these people worth anything ? The graphics suggest that they're cutting-edge... something... mumble mumble... but the predictions seem to swing with each new poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 Yeah over the weekend the Tories had a 6 point lead now poof, gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) http://www.threehundredeight.com/ Are these people worth anything ? The graphics suggest that they're cutting-edge... something... mumble mumble... but the predictions seem to swing with each new poll. Three Hundred Eight is a polling aggregate. The latest poll gets the most weight and their also weighted by their historical accuracy. It's pretty good, but I'm still thinking the individual polls that are using "likely voters" are more likely to closest to the result. The debates will make a difference. So we need to keep an eye on that too. Edited June 3, 2014 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 What the unions are saying is different then what hudak is saying. We have lost a lot of great union jobs in ONT because of the liberal's,but I guess those don't count. Just like the OPP attack ad, it is all BS. You'd have probably lost those jobs with any government, really. When the global economy restructures, lots of indstries get affected. It's been going on in earnest since at least the Industrial Revolution. The change in Ontario from an agrarian society to an industrial one was part of a previous cycle. Adapt or die. The furor in Ontario over possible civil service downsizing reminds me a bit of the situation in Alberta 20 years ago. One difference of course is that I don't see any politicians in ON with sufficient spine to both state what they'll do and actually do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 Is there a cite for Hudak detailing exactly which public servants he'd fire? I suspect there's just a lot of conjecture. I don't think Hudak knows for sure either. He gave the 100,000 total which several groups have used to figure out how many people would be fired on average in a given region. Hudak also said he would fire 10,000 educational support workers more than a year ago. That number alone would be a massive blow to education, but based on his comments about larger class sizes and funding cuts a combination of another 9,000 teacher/ECE/EA positions would have to be erased as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 Instead of having 100,000 people lose their jobs wouldn't it be simpler just to vote out Hudak and have him find another job?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 I have a friend whose company regularly submits proposal for environmental review. They were told that reviews wouldn't happen until after the election. I can't imagine that approach standing the test of scrutiny but I haven't found anything official about it. Thoughts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 You'd have probably lost those jobs with any government, really. When the global economy restructures, lots of indstries get affected. It's been going on in earnest since at least the Industrial Revolution. The change in Ontario from an agrarian society to an industrial one was part of a previous cycle. Adapt or die. The furor in Ontario over possible civil service downsizing reminds me a bit of the situation in Alberta 20 years ago. One difference of course is that I don't see any politicians in ON with sufficient spine to both state what they'll do and actually do it. LOL I work with industry and the biggest reason for leaving ont is hydro and then taxes and then regulations. It seems the libs had that in mind when they did all this shit that chased our industry south, east and west. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Instead of having 100,000 people lose their jobs wouldn't it be simpler just to vote out Hudak and have him find another job?? Right there is BS and that is what the unions have been doing. If you actually read what he said you would know that you are full of shit, but I think you know that. Funny how the private sector always feels the heat the and PS never does. Edited June 3, 2014 by PIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 I'm in favour of sensibly reducing public sector costs, despite the fact that current PS employment levels are consistent with the average. However, it appears Hudak has put very little thought into how best to improve efficiency. The fact that he can't defend the imaginary numbers used in his jobs plan and the lack of information and rationale behind his crude workforce cuts is disconcerting. Plus, his plan to fire educational support workers is nonsensical. This is one of those elections that makes me want to check a "none of the above" box. I wanted sensible change and though Hudak is vowing to shake things up, I fear his vague plans to make sweeping cuts and give corporations a tax break would be worse than the status quo. Too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 Ipsos's latest poll of 3000 voters breaks it down:Liberals 32% Conservatives 24% New Democrats 17% Undecideds 27% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Ipsos's latest poll of 3000 voters breaks it down: Liberals 32% Conservatives 24% New Democrats 17% Undecideds 27% Um you mean the poll about who will win the debate? Also it's 2000. Edited June 3, 2014 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 You're right. It's about who will win the debate. The person I got the info from didn't mention that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 LOL I work with industry and the biggest reason for leaving ont is hydro and then taxes and then regulations. It seems the libs had that in mind when they did all this shit that chased our industry south, east and west. The biggest reason industry has left Ontario is that in a global context it is too expensive to make things there. And the biggest component is labour cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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