This week in Islam

[Wilber]

The Nigerian government asked for help, not an invasion.

No but it will take some military involvement. An operation like the SAS taking out the West Side Boys in Sierra Leone comes to mind.

[Argus]

The Nigerian government asked for help, not an invasion.

I understand a representative of the families went to see the Nigerian first lady the other day.

She called them liars, and said they made up the kidnapping to make the government look bad, then had the representative arrested.

I don't think the Nigerian government cares about anything but its reputation.

[Argus]

Please connect the kidnapping to the religion.

The extremist group involved is violently opposed to the education of women, because, according to them, the Qu'ran forbids it. The gentleman who heads this group has stated Allah wants him to take these girls and get them properly married.

This is a belief not uncommon in the Muslim world.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Argus

[GostHacked]

I heard a profound statement from a journalist tonight on this issue. He mentioned the international efforts to locate the missing Malaysian plane. Why not do the same for these kidnapped girls. Countries around the world should join forces to rescue these poor girls. Not only are these girls subjected to horrific conditions but also the Nigerian kids that are left behind that are now denied an education because of the fear of them being kidnapped.

Remember the failed campaign of Kony 2012? The international 'give a damn' level for Africa has always been lower than the rest of the world.

[cybercoma]

I understand a representative of the families went to see the Nigerian first lady the other day.

She called them liars, and said they made up the kidnapping to make the government look bad, then had the representative arrested.

I don't think the Nigerian government cares about anything but its reputation.

Maybe that happened, I don't know. But I do know that the President has asked for help finding the girls.

President Goodluck Jonathan calls for international help to find 276 girls kidnapped by suspected Boko Haram fighters.

[cybercoma]

The extremist group involved is violently opposed to the education of women, because, according to them, the Qu'ran forbids it. The gentleman who heads this group has stated Allah wants him to take these girls and get them properly married.

This is a belief not uncommon in the Muslim world.

So when are the Muslims in North America going to start kidnapping girls that are in school?

[cybercoma]

Remember the failed campaign of Kony 2012? The international 'give a damn' level for Africa has always been lower than the rest of the world.

Internationally countless dollars have been spent for decades in Africa on assistance for famine, AIDS, malaria and myriad other things. It's a bit tough to say the world couldn't care less about Africa when it spends so much resources trying to help, whilst practically ignoring the crippling poverty elsewhere, particularly South America and Southeast Asia.

[Argus]

So when are the Muslims in North America going to start kidnapping girls that are in school?

Alas, they are bound by the laws of the heathens in whose lands they live, and their very capable policing systems.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Argus

[cybercoma]

Alas, they are bound by the laws of the heathens in which they live, and their very capable policing systems.

So that's the only thing that's stopping them? You mean, Nigeria just had to have a law against abduction and none of this would have happened?

[Argus]

So that's the only thing that's stopping them? You mean, Nigeria just had to have a law against abduction and none of this would have happened?

I'm not saying that all Muslims have the same belief or interpretation of Islam. That's one of the problems with the religion; it has no central authority, and many of its followers are illiterate and uneducated. Thus Islam is, to them, whatever the guy with the book says it is.

[cybercoma]

So then it might have something to do with education and wealth? How then do you explain the fact that poverty is not an indicator of terrorism either within countries--

terrorist risk is not significantly higher for poorer countries . . . Political freedom is shown to explain terrorism . . . countries in some intermediate range of political freedom are shown to be more prone to terrorism than countries with high levels of political freedom or countries with highly authoritarian regimes.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w10859

--nor between countries--

no significant relationship between any of the measures of economic development and terrorism can be determined. Rather, variables such as population, ethno-religious diversity, increased state repression and, most significantly, the structure of party politics are found to be significant predictors of terrorism.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/095465590944578#.U2kWG166rZc

[GostHacked]

Internationally countless dollars have been spent for decades in Africa on assistance for famine, AIDS, malaria and myriad other things. It's a bit tough to say the world couldn't care less about Africa when it spends so much resources trying to help, whilst practically ignoring the crippling poverty elsewhere, particularly South America and Southeast Asia.

Those programs are about population control. Nothing more.

The Gates Foundation is an example of this.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2011/11/02/the-second-coming-of-bill-gates/4/

The underlying message here is population control. Most industrialized modern societies are actually declining in population numbers or the growth rate is slowing, but still booming in other areas where these programs are concentrating their efforts.

His speech about reducing the carbon footprint to zero requires a population decrease to satisfy the equation he devised.

[Michael Hardner]

His speech about reducing the carbon footprint to zero requires a population decrease to satisfy the equation he devised.

And as we all agree, the goal being a more habitable earth, better human-nature balance and better life for all.

[GostHacked]

And as we all agree, the goal being a more habitable earth, better human-nature balance and better life for all.

This leads to something like China's child policy. The government has control over your fertility rights as a human. What would your thoughts be on Canada implementing a one child policy? Would you accept that?

The human-nature balance is out of whack, and has been for a long time. But even if you solve that issue, we still have rampant toxic pollution, nuclear accidents, oil wells blowing up, continual perpetual wars using DU, pesticides. Even if you reduce the population the world is past the tipping point of supporting us in the long run because we gone f*cked it all up. Bee colony collapse, animal migration cut off because of human development and urban expansion, along with wiping out their habitat as we expand. Massive deforestation reducing the planets ability to turn carbon dioxide into oxygen, which puts more stress on the oceans that are showing signs of acidity, reducing the oceans ability to mitigate high levels of carbon dioxide. Meaning sea life is going to be affected. Starting with the smaller life forms first, something we are seeing already. Military exercises in the oceans (sonar, explosions ect) that are killing a good number of sea faring animals. The garbage patch in the ocean, said to be twice the size of Texas. Not to mention decades of nuclear testing which most of that stuff is still floating around in the atmosphere. And the potential risk of many Fukushima like incidents that can turn things bad instantly for a lot of people. And Fukushima is a global issue, not just a localized Japan issue. Everything we toss down the drain and goes right back into the environment. Take a look at the polluted rivers and lakes around the world. Toxic dump sites that leak. Trains, factories and refineries blowing up causing environmental hazards.

So the natural environment is done they way I see it. It's on it's last legs, and there is no technological solution that can resolve this in time. Reducing the human population won't allow the environment to bounce back quickly enough to sustain our way of life. We are on the verge of a major global population decline.

It's why I take the UN's sustainability programs to task. To me they are trying to bring things back to a level where they can be sustained. Meaning that many populations are in decline because of our collective negligence to our planet.

[Michael Hardner]

This leads to something like China's child policy.

Only in the minds of the preposterous.

Persuading people to behave responsibly is not the same as forcing it to happen, and this is where so many of the Alex Jones / New World Order types fall into the crazy pit.

It's why I take the UN's sustainability programs to task. To me they are trying to bring things back to a level where they can be sustained. Meaning that many populations are in decline because of our collective negligence to our planet.

Well, other things have been brought back. Also, it's very difficult to assert how bad things are on either side of the question.

[GostHacked]

Only in the minds of the preposterous.

Persuading people to behave responsibly is not the same as forcing it to happen, and this is where so many of the Alex Jones / New World Order types fall into the crazy pit.

Drunk driving laws are an example of forcing responsibility.

Gun laws are an example of forcing responsibility.

Having mandatory insurance for your vehicle is forcing responsibility.

There are many areas where we have forced responsibility by the government. Every time you need to get a license, a permit, or something similar, consider it forced responsibility.

Just take a pop over the the thread that talks about drunk people and bars responsibility.

And really, drop the Alex Jones bit. I took Kimmy and DogonPorch to task with that, and now I will take you to task on it. I do not watch Jones anymore. I could interpret that as some kind of insult (against the rules) as I still need to clarify my position on Jones whenever another poster brings him up.

[Michael Hardner]

Drunk driving laws are an example of forcing responsibility.

Gun laws are an example of forcing responsibility.

Having mandatory insurance for your vehicle is forcing responsibility.

There are many areas where we have forced responsibility by the government. Every time you need to get a license, a permit, or something similar, consider it forced responsibility.

Just take a pop over the the thread that talks about drunk people and bars responsibility.

Yes, and if GatesCo were advocating for government control over reproductive rights in this way then it would be part of the discussion.

And really, drop the Alex Jones bit.

Jones brings a level of irrational thought to such things, and furthermore many of these plotlines come from him. If there's no clear motive for something, but it's attributed to some vague conspiracy - then it's an Alex Jones thing. That's what I mean by that.

Should we google Alex Jones to see what he thinks about the Gates Foundation ? I haven't done it yet, but I'll get he has reservations.

[Argus]

So then it might have something to do with education and wealth? How then do you explain the fact that poverty is not an indicator of terrorism either within countries--

--nor between countries--

I didn't say it had anything to do with wealth. It has to do with ignorance, and the kind of fanaticism a deep and abiding belief in an intolerent religion will create. And like it or not, the way Islam is being taught in a large part of the Muslim world, particularly with the aid of Saudi Wahabi money to construct mosques and pay imams, intolerance is its watchword.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Argus

[Wayward Son]

This leads to something like China's child policy. The government has control over your fertility rights as a human. What would your thoughts be on Canada implementing a one child policy? Would you accept that?

Gates has never advocated anything like China's policy. Iran is a good example of population growth declining significantly through education for women, birth control availability, and improved basic health measures. All things that Gates advocates. If we can improve the lot of the poor, especially poor young women, so that the world population peaks at 8 or 9 billion then things will likely turn out quite well. Gates is working tirelessly towards that goal. Alex Jones and people like him are no help, and instead a hindrance.

The rest of your post is just a string of doomsday predictions - predictions which have failed miserably time and time again. Ehrlich being the best example.

Are some things bad? Yes, many things. Is it possible that humanity will not be able to deal with problems it needs to deal with? Sure. But, if that occurs then the doomsayers will share the blame. Why? Because when they preach coming doom they always ignore the many things that are getting better, and convince people that there is no hope when the reality is that there is hope - especially if more people accept science and reality. Pollution is not rampant, but has improved in many places. Many rivers are far cleaner today than they were 60 years ago. Pesticides are significantly safer today than they were a couple decades ago (leading to a situation where because organic farming pesticides don't change, they are often far worse than the current synthetic ones). Fukashima is not a global issue, at least not in the way people like you claim it is. The Pacific garbage patch is not great, but when people claim that it is twice the size of Texas that simply indicates they don't understand what it is. It is a gyre and its size would be the same if there were 100 times less garbage in it, or 100 times more. If you were scuba diving in the middle of it you would have no clue.

Some things are getting worse and some things are getting better. The only way forward is to assess what has improved and what has worsened, and why for each. Those who refuse to acknowledge that many things have improved, and improved significantly are a huge part of the problem. Those who try to accurately assess the problems and bring forth pragmatic, progressive solutions (as Gates has been doing) are a huge part of the solution.

[Michael Hardner]

So, we're drifting now and I'm as responsible as anybody else. If we want to talk about the Gates Foundation - let's move it to another thread.

[overthere]

Nigeria is, overall, one of the worst places on earth to live.

Despite having generated many billions of oil royalties over several decades, it remains a profound shit hole with no infrastructure, weak public institutions, rampant corruption and a population that mostly wants to leave.

The Islamist rebels who stole these children are more or less in control of that area, mainly because the government chooses not to care. Tribal tensions are a big contributor to how much help they will get, which is none. The one and only thing the parents have going for them is international horror at the lack of swift action by the govt.

In the meantime, their children are being raped, brutalized and sold.

Any wonder remaining at why people emigrate to countries like Canada, where there is rule of law?

[Shady]

This week in Islam....

More girls kidnapped.

http://news.yahoo.com/gunmen-northeast-nigeria-abduct-eight-more-girls-police-132037155.html;_ylt=AwrBEiH1JGlTjzUA1ynQtDMD

[GostHacked]

Jones brings a level of irrational thought to such things, and furthermore many of these plotlines come from him. If there's no clear motive for something, but it's attributed to some vague conspiracy - then it's an Alex Jones thing. That's what I mean by that.

I'll explain this again for you.

I do not listen to Alex Jones. I used to, but things have changed. So you can go on about Jones if you wish. You are on your own. I used Bill Gate's own quotes to show what his plans are.

So come on Mike, why do you feel the need to bring him up when you are talking to me specifically compared to the rest of the forum?

First time you brought it up, you did not know.

Second time you bring it up, another brain fart mistake.

Third time you bring it up ...

[cybercoma]

To my understanding, when Gates talked about population control, he was saying it was a consequence of what he was doing not the purpose of it.

Edited May 7, 2014 by cybercoma

[Michael Hardner]

I do not listen to Alex Jones. I used to, but things have changed. So you can go on about Jones if you wish. You are on your own.

Ok, I take it that we both understand my Alex Jones references are not directed at you.

So come on Mike, why do you feel the need to bring him up when you are talking to me specifically compared to the rest of the forum?

I don't think that's the case. I think I actually bring him up when we're dealing with that flavour of home-brewed controversy that has internal logic, but not the external kind.

I Googled this...

https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22alex+Jones%22+site%3Awww.mapleleafweb.com%2Fforums&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA556CA557&oq=%22alex+Jones%22+site%3Awww.mapleleafweb.com%2Fforums&aqs=chrome..69i57.9007j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=119&ie=UTF-8#q=%22alex+Jones%22+%22hardner+blog%22++site%3Awww.mapleleafweb.com%2Fforums

It turns out that you're at the end of most of the Alex Jones references on the first page of results. You were also asked about him by Kimmy and Morris Dancer, not just me. I also brought up the topic of AJ with Rick and with TimG.

But, more enlightening perhaps, the thread titles are:

Texas vs TSA

Hillary Clinton's Running Mate (talking about the Bundy Standoff)

Agenda 21

How the Media Lies to You

New World Order

Is This What a Police State Looks Like

Osama is Dead

Which are topics upon which AJ opines regularly.