This week in Islam

[dialamah]

Woman who protested Iran's ban on women watching soccer dies after setting herself on fire in protest of jail sentence. 

Iran is a terrible place.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Goddess said:

 

Who gives a crap if YOU think it's irrelevant? 

It's clearly very relevant to people who terrorize int he name of a religion.  If a religion is telling its followers to hate and kill, then the religion is very relevant.  Smarten up.

 

I believe the Bible's ultimate message to its followers is: "Go and do thou likewise."

Jesus...unlike Muhammad...never killed anybody according to the sources.

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Woman who protested Iran's ban on women watching soccer dies after setting herself on fire in protest of jail sentence. 

Iran is a terrible place.

 

It was much nicer under The Shah and Farah. Unless you were one of those mullahs in charge right now. The Shah didn't like them and put Islam in the back seat in favor of modernity. His alliance with Israel really upset the mullahs who started to preach their Jew-hate from their bully pulpits. Iran went downhill fast from there...

[DogOnPorch]

8 minutes ago, Goddess said:

They don't really.  But I think the information I posted about Muslims in the UK - the vast majority of them want Sharia law with all its barbarity - THAT is the law they are loyal to.

 

To a devout Muslim, there is ONLY the Sharia. However, the Quran/Hadiths tell Muslims to follow the laws of the land if minority until a position of strength is reached.

[Goddess]

19 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

To a devout Muslim, there is ONLY the Sharia. However, the Quran/Hadiths tell Muslims to follow the laws of the land if minority until a position of strength is reached.

Yes, I was reading an article a while back by a Muslim reformer (I think Fateh, but I'm not sure....) who said we need to pay attention to weasel-y words like "As a Norwegian Muslim, I obey the laws of our country" or "As a Canadian Muslim, I don't agree with executing gays" because what they are saying is that as soon as Norway or Canada caves into Islam - they will be fully Muslim and our laws will not mean anything to them.

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Yes, I was reading an article a while back by a Muslim reformer (I think Fateh, but I'm not sure....) who said we need to pay attention to weasel-y words like "As a Norwegian Muslim, I obey the laws of our country" or "As a Canadian Muslim, I don't agree with executing gays" because what they are saying is that as soon as Norway or Canada caves into Islam - they will be fully Muslim and our laws will not mean anything to them.

 

Well, we wouldn't want Christianity telling us what to do every minute of the day...be you Christian or not. But, oddly, some folks WANT Islam to do just that. Can't wait...

Why do they want Islam?? Is it to smash the so-called patriarchy? If it is, they're in for a wee surprise.

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

Why do they want Islam?? Is it to smash the so-called patriarchy? If it is, they're in for a wee surprise.

I do sometimes think the reason some defend Islam no matter what it does is because they are sooooo against Western capitalism, influence or Western whatever and they find an ally in Muslims for that world-view.

I was reading about how the LGBQT community in Europe at first stood up for Muslims, thinking "Hey, You're a minority and we're a minority, we should team up to right the wrongs in this country."  Until Islamic leaders started calling for separate Sharia courts that would have the authority to stone gays to death.  Yes - a wee bit of a surprise.

[dialamah]

Someone made the claim that Victoria BC was going to take down Christmas lights so as not to offend Muslims.  As a result, the Mayor of Victoria has been receiving hateful email.  The story is completely false, of course, and the city this year is planning its biggest ever display of Christmas lights.  

Examples like this abound, and people wonder why I'm so skeptical of stories about Muslims demanding things, and Western progressives, leftists etc. are "protecting" Muslim sensibilities at every turn.

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Examples like this abound, and people wonder why I'm so skeptical of stories about Muslims demanding things, and Western progressives, leftists etc. are "protecting" Muslim sensibilities at every turn.

That's an odd view.

Even though there are lots of "hijab hoaxes" - even here in Canada - I don't write off every incident as being a hoax.  I'm fully aware that it happens for real.

[dialamah]

8 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Even though there are lots of "hijab hoaxes" - even here in Canada - I don't write off every incident as being a hoax.  I'm fully aware that it happens for real.

Good to know.

PS. I'm on my phone, and the font for your quote is too small for my 60 year old eyes.  You can remove formatting when pasting something so it's the same size as everything else, which you may already know, but like me sometimes forget to do. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by dialamah

[kactus]

6 hours ago, dialamah said:

Woman who protested Iran's ban on women watching soccer dies after setting herself on fire in protest of jail sentence. 

Iran is a terrible place.

It’s a very sad news indeed. Unfortunately, Iranians of all walks of life have been taken hostage by the current mullah regime. Unless they are mercenaries or paid by the regime which is very few...

You do have to make a distinction though. Iran is not a terrible place as you stated. The current government is.

Edited September 10, 2019 by kactus

[dialamah]

20 minutes ago, kactus said:

You do have to make a distinction though. Iran is not a terrible place as you stated. The current government is.

I'm ok making that distinction.   I've an Iranian-Canadian friend who works for an NGO, she's sent pics of Iran.  It looks like a beautiful place.  

[Argus]

7 hours ago, Goddess said:

I do sometimes think the reason some defend Islam no matter what it does is because they are sooooo against Western capitalism, influence or Western whatever and they find an ally in Muslims for that world-view.

There's been a lot of publicity about Margaret Atwood's new book in that Handmaids Tale series, which shows a future where Christian Conservatives have robbed women of their rights. The incredible irony is most of the feminist types who adore this series will fight ferociously for Islam's reputation and the 'right' of Muslim women to wear burkas and niqabs, and will curse out anyone who says that Islam is misogynistic.

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Argus

[Guest]

12 hours ago, jacee said:

Are all Christians responsible for the existence of Christian terrorists? 

Ooh, don't tell me, I know this one...  No!

Are all Muslims responsible for Muslim terrorists? 

Such silliness.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, dialamah said:

Someone made the claim that Victoria BC was going to take down Christmas lights so as not to offend Muslims.  As a result, the Mayor of Victoria has been receiving hateful email.  The story is completely false, of course, and the city this year is planning its biggest ever display of Christmas lights.  

Examples like this abound, and people wonder why I'm so skeptical of stories about Muslims demanding things, and Western progressives, leftists etc. are "protecting" Muslim sensibilities at every turn.

Back in the day, when a Pakistani Muslim became the Mayor of Bradford, where I grew up, a motion was put forward in council to make it easier for Muslims to hold office in Bradford than any other religion.  It was swiftly stopped, by Muslims.  It was hippies who had put the motion forward.  I think they're called progressives now.

You just never can tell.

[DogOnPorch]

It's those darn airplanes and their desire to smash...

 

 

[Goddess]

An interesting paper:

http://macdonaldlaurier.ca/files/pdf/20190205_MLI_Canadian_Terrorists_Wilner_PAPER_WebFinal.pdf

 

It examines terrorism in some specific countries in Europe, the US and Canada.

 

Quote

Attempting to explain jihadi recruitment and mobilization, scholars Efraim Benmelech and Esteban Klor (2017), relying on aggregated data from two Soufan reports, explore how country-level attributes in economics, politics, and development relate to the rate and number of foreign fighters. They argue that foreign fighters are not necessarily driven by economic conditions, but rather by difficulties in assimilating into western society. By contrast,In a 2017 study based on interviews with 20 jihadi foreign fighters from around the world, Canadian scholars Lorne Dawson and Amarnath Amarasingam (2017) find instead that “religion,” “religious discourse,” and “religiosity” – however ill-informed – provide a “dominant frame” that motivates the decisions and behaviors of these individuals.

Even though we were assured by Canadian authorities that the ramming attack in Edmonton done by the Muslim guy with an ISIS flag in his car, was NOT Islamic terrorism, it is included in this report on page 20.  (I think it was obvious that it WAS an Islamic attack, though, no matter what the government was telling us.)

Quote

Other attacks, including a 2016 stabbing attack at a Toronto Armed Forces recruitment centre (the accused was acquitted of terrorism charges in mid-2018), a 2016 explosion of a homemade explosive device in Strathroy, Ontario, and a 2017 ramming attack in Edmonton, have resulted in injuries. And several other Islamist attacks were thwarted, including for instance in 2006, 2013, and 2017.7 The terrorism Canada has faced over the past decade has been dangerous, but also rudimentary in nature and limited in scale.

I think we should start looking closer at what is happening in mosques in these cities:

Quote

 

Canadian Place of Residence

A majority of the individuals captured in the data originated from Ontario (55 percent). Quebec came next (23 percent), followed by Alberta (16 percent). In terms of cities, 30 individuals originated from the Greater Toronto Area, 18 from Montreal, 15 from Ottawa-Gatineau, and 10 from Calgary.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Goddess

[jacee]

On 9/10/2019 at 10:36 AM, Goddess said:

 

Who gives a crap if YOU think it's irrelevant? 

It's clearly very relevant to people who terrorize int he name of a religion.  If a religion is telling its followers to hate and kill, then the religion is very relevant.  Smarten up.

People are responsible for their own actions. 

[Goddess]

2 minutes ago, jacee said:

People are responsible for their own actions. 

And......... holding and acting on extreme religious beliefs do not negate that the individuals are still responsible for their actions.

I'm not sure what your'e arguing here.

[jacee]

On 9/10/2019 at 10:04 PM, Argus said:

There's been a lot of publicity about Margaret Atwood's new book in that Handmaids Tale series, which shows a future where Christian Conservatives have robbed women of their rights. The incredible irony is most of the feminist types who adore this series will fight ferociously for Islam's reputation and the 'right' of Muslim women to wear burkas and niqabs, and will curse out anyone who says that Islam is misogynistic.

 

A woman's right to choose is not your business. 

[jacee]

22 minutes ago, Goddess said:

And......... holding and acting on extreme religious beliefs do not negate that the individuals are still responsible for their actions.

I'm not sure what your'e arguing here.

So we agree that people are responsible for their own actions and choices, regardless of what religions or other dogma or voices in their head may or may not be "telling them".

How do you hold dogma accountable in court?

It's ridiculous. 

We hold people accountable for their actions.

And we don't judge the rest of the people of a group by the actions of some with dangerous 'voices in their heads'.

Edited September 12, 2019 by jacee

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, jacee said:

A woman's right to choose is not your business. 

They're choosing to wear those ridiculous outfits? 

Actually, a women's right to choose is everyone's business.  It's up to all of us to make sure a woman has a right to choose.

 

[Goddess]

15 hours ago, jacee said:

So we agree that people are responsible for their own actions and choices, regardless of what religions or other dogma or voices in their head may or may not be "telling them".

Yes.  It's always a choice whether to act on the instructions of a religion or religious leader that teaches intolerance, hatred and violence.

You excuse the religion.  I do not.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Goddess

[dialamah]

50 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yes.  It's always a choice whether to act on the instructions of a religion or religious leader that teaches intolerance, hatred and violence.

You excuse the religion.  I do not.

If a Christian who is anti-abortion shoots an abortion provider because his religion tells him abortion is wrong, do you blame him for his choice and his religion for its teachings?  Or do you primarily blame him and consider his actions irrelevant to his religion?

[Goddess]

Just now, dialamah said:

If a Christian who is anti-abortion shoots an abortion provider because his religion tells him abortion is wrong, do you blame him for his choice and his religion for its teachings?  Or do you primarily blame him and consider his actions irrelevant to his religion?

I concur with many experts and studies (such as the one I linked in a recent comment above) who agree that:

 

23 hours ago, Goddess said:

Canadian scholars Lorne Dawson and Amarnath Amarasingam (2017) find instead that “religion,” “religious discourse,” and “religiosity” – however ill-informed – provide a “dominant frame” that motivates the decisions and behaviors of these individuals.

I'm aware that you disagree and that you believe Islam - the religion - bears no responsibility for how its followers behave.

I'm not the only one who disagrees with you, so don't make out like I'm a racist and Islamophobe for finding many of the teachings of Islam dangerous and harmful.