Boeing 777 Disappears Near Vietnam

[WestCoastRunner]

Independent experts want the Malaysian government to release the raw data so they can do their own analysis. They are questioning the search area and now think they are searching in the wrong ocean! Why don't they release this raw data?

[kimmy]

A couple of weeks ago I had lunch at a family restaurant mid-week, and got seated near a table full of old-people. They have the answer to preventing such tragedies in the future:

"You know what the problem is, is that nowadays the pilots don't know how to fly the planes anymore. They have these automatic pilots, and if the automatic pilot goes haywire, they don't know what to do! What they need to do is put a switch in so that they can turn off the automatic pilot, and that way if the automatic pilot goes haywire, then they can turn off the automatic pilot and fly the plane the old fashioned way. But they don't want to do that, because if they had that, they would have to hire pilots who know how to fly the planes and they don't want to spend any money. It's all about saving a few bucks nowadays. Everythings about money."

"Oh, that is so true."

I'm so grateful that we have access to the wisdom of our seniors to enlighten us.

-k

[cybercoma]

Good thing they refuse to retire and give employment opportunities to youth. Kids these days can only wish to be so smart.

[monty16]

Still quite unsettling for countries that fear either freedom fighters or terrorists. Airplane related issues seem to be a popular way of seeking revenge.

[On Guard for Thee]

A couple of weeks ago I had lunch at a family restaurant mid-week, and got seated near a table full of old-people. They have the answer to preventing such tragedies in the future:

"You know what the problem is, is that nowadays the pilots don't know how to fly the planes anymore. They have these automatic pilots, and if the automatic pilot goes haywire, they don't know what to do! What they need to do is put a switch in so that they can turn off the automatic pilot, and that way if the automatic pilot goes haywire, then they can turn off the automatic pilot and fly the plane the old fashioned way. But they don't want to do that, because if they had that, they would have to hire pilots who know how to fly the planes and they don't want to spend any money. It's all about saving a few bucks nowadays. Everythings about money."

"Oh, that is so true."

I'm so grateful that we have access to the wisdom of our seniors to enlighten us.

-k

Those old folks

A couple of weeks ago I had lunch at a family restaurant mid-week, and got seated near a table full of old-people. They have the answer to preventing such tragedies in the future:

"You know what the problem is, is that nowadays the pilots don't know how to fly the planes anymore. They have these automatic pilots, and if the automatic pilot goes haywire, they don't know what to do! What they need to do is put a switch in so that they can turn off the automatic pilot, and that way if the automatic pilot goes haywire, then they can turn off the automatic pilot and fly the plane the old fashioned way. But they don't want to do that, because if they had that, they would have to hire pilots who know how to fly the planes and they don't want to spend any money. It's all about saving a few bucks nowadays. Everythings about money."

"Oh, that is so true."

I'm so grateful that we have access to the wisdom of our seniors to enlighten us.

-k

Those old folks aren't far off the mark in some cases. The Asiana flight that pranged in SFO not so long ago COULD be an example of just that, or sort of. The final report is not out yet but a couple of things are known: it was a beautiful clear sunny day, the crew had not reported any malfunctions of the aircraft, there were two items not working on the runway in use that day. Namely, the ILS which is a radio transmitter system that guides the plane to the runway when the weather is down, and what's called a VASIS, which is simply a set of lights on the ground next to the runway which help indicate the proper appraoch angle when the weather is clear. Now, I learned to fly at a small airport that had neither of these facilities, and somehow I managed to learn to land without crashing. Hand flying an airplane for 10 or 12 hours is tiring so the autopilot reduces a lot of workload. It could be some airlines let their crews rely a tad too heavy on the automation.

[Wilber]

A couple of weeks ago I had lunch at a family restaurant mid-week, and got seated near a table full of old-people. They have the answer to preventing such tragedies in the future:

"You know what the problem is, is that nowadays the pilots don't know how to fly the planes anymore. They have these automatic pilots, and if the automatic pilot goes haywire, they don't know what to do! What they need to do is put a switch in so that they can turn off the automatic pilot, and that way if the automatic pilot goes haywire, then they can turn off the automatic pilot and fly the plane the old fashioned way. But they don't want to do that, because if they had that, they would have to hire pilots who know how to fly the planes and they don't want to spend any money. It's all about saving a few bucks nowadays. Everythings about money."

"Oh, that is so true."

I'm so grateful that we have access to the wisdom of our seniors to enlighten us.

-k

Old folks are the only ones ignorant when it comes to aviation? Please, some of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard on the subject have come from the evening news. One small thing, I lost count years ago of the number of times they have reported a story on one type of aircraft and shown a clip of a completely different type.

These old folks had a point even if the technical knowledge was somewhat off. As OGfT has pointed out, it's often not because they can't turn the AP off, but because they won't turn it off. They get so fixated on trying to make the magic work that they forget to fly the aircraft.

Back in the seventies and eighties when the new technology was coming in, the problem was getting a bunch of guys who were used to doing it themselves, either by hand flying or using basic autopilots, to learn the new technology. Learning the logic of these system was quite a chore for a generation that had virtually no computer literacy. It was usually the older, more experienced pilots who had the most difficult time adapting.

I still remember the first glass cockpit aircraft that came to a company I worked for. For quite a while, one of the most heard comments was "what the &%#$ is it doing now" followed by click click as the autopilot was disconnected and a pilot took over. Now we have come full circle. The FAA is now saying that the concentration on technology has come at the cost of basic flying skills and more emphasis now needs to be put back on them.

Auto pilots will always be necessary for some things. Approaches and landings in near zero visibility can't be flown without them and trying to hand fly a large swept wing aircraft at high altitude requires a high degree of concentration and becomes very tiring in short order.

And the geezers were dead right about one thing. It is all about money.

[WestCoastRunner]

So apparently, those pings were bogus and they are now concentrating on another portion of the arc. Those poor families. Do you think we will ever find the plane?

[WestCoastRunner]

So apparently, those pings were bogus and they are now concentrating on another portion of the arc. Those poor families. Do you think we will ever find the plane?

What is curious to everyone, is where those pings came from if not from the plane?

[On Guard for Thee]

What is curious to everyone, is where those pings came from if not from the plane?

They mpst likely came from the search vessells themselves it seems. You may have heard Inmarsat has handed over the sat data they worked to finds those "arcs" and also the doopler approach they used to eliminate the northern arc. So now anyone else who has the same expertise can re-evaluate and see if they come up with the same results. And just to be clear, the "pings" would come from the so called black boxes after the crash, not from the plane before. Of course they would be co-located in all likelihood, but it's possible the plane could have mostly come apart on entry into the chuck, and then drifted on tide and wind whilst the boxes sank directly to the bottom.

[monty16]

There's also a likelihood that politics and propaganda has seeped into the whole thing and we are getting stories that are politically correct for our ears. The biggest interest in finding the thing is most likely to discover the method used to take out an airliner with an explosive device that was undetectable. Bad for airline business! Really bad for the American mindset of invulnerability!

[GostHacked]

Kimmy that can be applied to many areas where we use technology. We are loosing well needed skills via automation. Soon we won't be able to even fix the computers because we do not have the skills anymore.

But the Autopilot can be turned off at anytime. If it cannot be turned off, then that airline should be grounded.

[Shady]

Sometimes money is no object. This is one of those times.

I completely disagree. Wasting billions of tax dollars on a plane search, when we know there are no survivors is absurd.

[On Guard for Thee]

Not so absurd if you happen to be someone who climbs aboard a 777 fairly often and would like to know what happenned to THAT 777.

Non more than Boeing will want to know that.

Edited June 4, 2014 by On Guard for Thee

[monty16]

I completely disagree. Wasting billions of tax dollars on a plane search, when we know there are no survivors is absurd.

Sometimes there are more important things than just money. If you try to understand that then you may be able to understand that finding the aircraft could pay dividends that will eventually save money. Wouldn't that be in 'your' best interests?

[Shady]

Sometimes there are more important things than just money. If you try to understand that then you may be able to understand that finding the aircraft could pay dividends that will eventually save money. Wouldn't that be in 'your' best interests?

I disagree. There have been plenty of planes that have crashed and never been found. We're not spending billions still searching for them.

[Topaz]

In my view, either the plane was hijacked or it was accidently shot down by two countries holding military exercises in the area and covered it up by sending the search in the opposite direction. If this is found to be true, the cover-up is worse than the accident.

[guyser]

I disagree. There have been plenty of planes that have crashed and never been found. We're not spending billions still searching for them.

Commercisl jetliners with 300+ on board?

And while you can think its a waste of money, it isnt your money, and you can bet Boeing would be the penultimate one to suggest the search stop.

[monty16]

I disagree. There have been plenty of planes that have crashed and never been found. We're not spending billions still searching for them.

Just to have you again and again disagree with reality is my mission accomplished.

[On Guard for Thee]

What I have seen lately is the Aussie's have some sort of recording that was picked up by some sort of permanent sonar device placed near the shore of an islend near Perth. The interview I heard didn't suggest they were jumping to any conclusions but they were giving this thing a going over to try and determine if it was the sound of a plane crashing. As well, apparently there was a British woman sailing from India to Thailand at the appropriate time who thought she saw a large airplane in the night sky which appeared to be on fire. I am still sticking to my fire theory. It makes the most sense with the skimpy bit of real info there is currently.

[Shady]

Commercisl jetliners with 300+ on board?And while you can think its a waste of money, it isnt your money, and you can bet Boeing would be the penultimate one to suggest the search stop.

Yes, even commercial jetliners.

[guyser]

Yes, even commercial jetliners.

Thankfully smarter heaqds are involved.

They understand, as do I , that asnwers are very necessary to restore and maintain confidence in not only Boeings products, but all airlines and airplane manufacturers.

Not to mwntion the 300+ family's and their members who deserve to know exactly what went down.

Look at the flight that crashed years ago in Russia with the hockey team on board. The pilot didnt know his foot was on the brake.

One can bet that the mfr'er of that plane was pretty happy money was spent to find that horrible truth .

[monty16]

Shady's objections to the search going on are once again immaterial. He doesn't make decisions that are important and it's obvious that it's a good job he and his cohorts don't!

[bush_cheney2004]

What has Canada contributed to the search to date ? How much spent ?

[On Guard for Thee]

In my view, either the plane was hijacked or it was accidently shot down by two countries holding military exercises in the area and covered it up by sending the search in the opposite direction. If this is found to be true, the cover-up is worse than the accident.

The problem with that theory is that the handshakes between 370 and the satellite continued on for 7 or so hours after the turn, which is about when it would normally run out of fuel. A shootdwon could have been coincidental with that timing, but it seems a bit of a stretch.

[guyser]

What has Canada contributed to the search to date ? How much spent ?

Some, but what relevance does that have to do with what we are talking about?

Oh...apart from that thing folks do with a fishing rod and a boat.