Shady Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 The G8 is set to meet in Sochi in June of this year. Stephen Harper should be the first leader to step up and renounce his plans of attending the meeting. He should also intitiate the procedings of Russia being kicked out of the G8 as well. On a side note, the EU should fasttrack the memberships of both Georgia and Ukraine, as well as Poland if they're not already members. Also, President Obama should being talks with Ukraine and Georgia about small-scale nuclear weapons programs. After all, if Russia can give it's nucelar expertise to states like Syria and Iran, than what's good for the goose, should be good for the gander. Especially now that Russia has completely shattered the treaty they signed with Ukraine, which was in exchange for Ukraine abandoning any nuclear weapons intentions. Quote
TimG Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 The G8 is set to meet in Sochi in June of this year. Stephen Harper should be the first leader to step up and renounce his plans of attending the meeting.Give me a break. The only thing Harper should be doing is encouraging the Ukrainians to crate a constitution that gives the Russian speakers considerable autonomy (at least as much as a Canadian province) and hold a referendum on breaking up the country. If the new power sharing agreement convinces the Russian speakers to stay then world should support them. If the Russian speakers want to go then so be it. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 The G8 is set to meet in Sochi in June of this year. Stephen Harper should be the first leader to step up and renounce his plans of attending the meeting. He should also intitiate the procedings of Russia being kicked out of the G8 as well. On a side note, the EU should fasttrack the memberships of both Georgia and Ukraine, as well as Poland if they're not already members. Also, President Obama should being talks with Ukraine and Georgia about small-scale nuclear weapons programs. After all, if Russia can give it's nucelar expertise to states like Syria and Iran, than what's good for the goose, should be good for the gander. Especially now that Russia has completely shattered the treaty they signed with Ukraine, which was in exchange for Ukraine abandoning any nuclear weapons intentions. I must say I am with you on this one Shady, er most of it, the addition of more nukes just worries me, but I get ur "goose and gander" reference. As you point out a treaty was signed and now a signatory is breaking what was put into law by their own signature. If there needs to be some sort of referendum internally then so be it. Seems to me we've had a couple referendums here in Canada without anybody amassing 150k troops on the border. Quote
The_Squid Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 G8 could just kick Russia out... Go back to being the g7. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 From what I see most recently, 7 of the G8 have cancelled plans for Sochi. So by my math, I guess it's now the G1. Oh well, he best get used to being alone. Quote
eyeball Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 So that's it, a response that's or par with de-friending someone on Facebook? Mission Accomplished I guess. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Boges Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 So that's it, a response that's or par with de-friending someone on Facebook? Mission Accomplished I guess. I guess, why would Russia or Ukraine for that matter give a flying hoot about what Canada thinks about this? The only reason Canada should feel the need to say anything is because of the large Ukrainian dispora in Canada. Quote
Topaz Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Wasn't Harper all for going into Iraq, which was also an invasion, which he seems to be against now. Quote
Boges Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Wasn't Harper all for going into Iraq, which was also an invasion, which he seems to be against now. A lot of people were all for the Invasion of Iraq. Quote
Big Guy Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 I believe that it is distracting, confusing and obfuscating to see the world in terms of black and white or good and bad. Over the last two decades, the West has viewed the Russians as bad guys, then good guys and now bad guys again. The Ukraine situation appears to follow the principle that societies tend to segregate themselves according to ethnic and language lines. We saw that in the Balkans, in the Middle East and in Afghanistan. Politicians may draw lines on a map but the people are the ones who delineate affiliation and nationalism. Eventually, the lines on a map are redrawn and adjusted according to will of the majority. This can be accomplished with or without the spilling of blood. Before Canada leaps into the fray, perhaps we should allow the people of the Crimea that choice through a referendum. After all, we gave Quebec the opportunity to vote the will of the majority. Besides, its probably only a matter of time until the Russians are the good guys again. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Boges Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 I believe that it is distracting, confusing and obfuscating to see the world in terms of black and white or good and bad. Over the last two decades, the West has viewed the Russians as bad guys, then good guys and now bad guys again. The Ukraine situation appears to follow the principle that societies tend to segregate themselves according to ethnic and language lines. We saw that in the Balkans, in the Middle East and in Afghanistan. Politicians may draw lines on a map but the people are the ones who delineate affiliation and nationalism. Eventually, the lines on a map are redrawn and adjusted according to will of the majority. This can be accomplished with or without the spilling of blood. Before Canada leaps into the fray, perhaps we should allow the people of the Crimea that choice through a referendum. After all, we gave Quebec the opportunity to vote the will of the majority. Besides, its probably only a matter of time until the Russians are the good guys again. Interesting you bring up Quebec. Let's say Quebec did separate but the people of Montreal didn't want to separate from Canada. Would there be similar international condemnation if Canada decided to annex the Island of Montreal? Quote
Argus Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Give me a break. The only thing Harper should be doing is encouraging the Ukrainians to crate a constitution that gives the Russian speakers considerable autonomy (at least as much as a Canadian province) and hold a referendum on breaking up the country. If the new power sharing agreement convinces the Russian speakers to stay then world should support them. If the Russian speakers want to go then so be it. The Crimea is already an autonomous region with more control than Quebec. The Russian speakers are up in arms because of deliberate Kremlin provocation and stage managing not because of persecution. The thoroughly corrupt president who was kicked out was Russian, and he got elected anyway. He was kicked out not because he was Russian but because he was a demagogue, a liar, a thief, and a ruthless dictator. Mind you, Russians seem to crave leaders with those traits above all others. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Besides, its probably only a matter of time until the Russians are the good guys again. Russia has NEVER been the good guys. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Wasn't Harper all for going into Iraq, which was also an invasion, which he seems to be against now. Luckily Harper had no say on Iraq, I reckon he just wanted to disagree with Chretien because he is just generally disagreeable. Plus we'd have trouble invading anybody right now. First we would need to swap motors on our sub but maybe we could ask the Americans to tow the Protecteur around into the Black Sea. Quote
eyeball Posted March 4, 2014 Report Posted March 4, 2014 General Jack D. Ripper must be spinning in his grave about right now. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted March 4, 2014 Report Posted March 4, 2014 Russia has NEVER been the good guys. What good guys? They used to be a dime a dozen in the west but I guess a dime doesn't get you much these days. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
waldo Posted March 4, 2014 Report Posted March 4, 2014 Russia has NEVER been the good guys. perspective on good guy labelling: apparently, independent news reports are showing a significant outpouring of support for Putin, one drawn from the 60% 'ethnic Russians' in the Crimea. Equally, of course, EU dependencies on Russian oil/resources carries its own flavour of acceptable 'goodness' . Quote
Big Guy Posted March 4, 2014 Report Posted March 4, 2014 Russia has NEVER been the good guys. Perhaps, but I submit that is a matter of personal opinion. In 1998, the “good guys” of France, West Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom, the United States and Canada invited Russia to join the group to create the G8. They appear to have seen Russia as a “good guy” at that time. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
carepov Posted March 4, 2014 Report Posted March 4, 2014 Interesting you bring up Quebec. Let's say Quebec did separate but the people of Montreal didn't want to separate from Canada. Would there be similar international condemnation if Canada decided to annex the Island of Montreal? Yes, this would be condemned, Montreal has always been a part of Quebec. Here's a better analogy: Let's say in the 1950's for some reason, Labrador was made part of Quebec. In 1995 Quebec separated, what happens to Labrador? Quote
TimG Posted March 4, 2014 Report Posted March 4, 2014 Yes, this would be condemned, Montreal has always been a part of Quebec.Why? If Canada is divisible then so is Quebec. If a referendum is enough to split up Canada then it is enough to split up Quebec. Quote
carepov Posted March 4, 2014 Report Posted March 4, 2014 Why? If Canada is divisible then so is Quebec. If a referendum is enough to split up Canada then it is enough to split up Quebec. Some places are divisible and some are not, some are in-between. Every place has it's unique reasons. Quebec is divisible from Canada as per the clarity act. No US state is divisible from the Union, as per the Civil War. The island of Montreal is indivisible from Quebec. It looks like the Crimea is divisible from the Ukraine. Quote
Smallc Posted March 4, 2014 Report Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Any place is divisible. Some places may be harder to divide, but they are all divisible. Quebec has sovereignty now....Montreal does not. That's not to say that it never could. Edited March 4, 2014 by Smallc Quote
Argus Posted March 4, 2014 Report Posted March 4, 2014 Perhaps, but I submit that is a matter of personal opinion. In 1998, the “good guys” of France, West Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom, the United States and Canada invited Russia to join the group to create the G8. They appear to have seen Russia as a “good guy” at that time. I don't think so. They were trying to draw the Russian bear out into the civilized world, thinking that would help civilize it. It didn't. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Big Guy Posted March 5, 2014 Report Posted March 5, 2014 Hot off the press – The urine samples of athletes from the winter Olympics have been re-tested and some startling results; Hockey players from Sweden, Slovakia, Finland, Canada, Latvia, USA and Czechoslovakia were found to have used illegal drugs and the teams have been disqualified. Accordingly, Russia has been awarded the gold medal. Surprisingly, Russian troops have just withdrawn from the Crimea. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
tinydancer Posted March 5, 2014 Report Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) .Also, President Obama should being talks with Ukraine and Georgia about small-scale nuclear weapons programs. After all, if Russia can give it's nucelar expertise to states like Syria and Iran, than what's good for the goose, should be good for the gander. Especially now that Russia has completely shattered the treaty they signed with Ukraine, which was in exchange for Ukraine abandoning any nuclear weapons intentions. . You won't have to worry about Ukraine wanting nukes. Svoboda is part of the transition government and right in their party platform they state quite clearly that they wish to become a nuclear power again. And we're not talking energy. They want weapons. Edited March 5, 2014 by tinydancer Quote
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