GostHacked Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 So invading democratic nations is the same as invading brutal dictatorships? There's no difference? There is a difference when the so called 'democratic' nation or group of nations takes out a dictator based on false evidence. Can't live up to the name of being a democracy when your foreign policy has nothing to do with democracy abroad. And you support brutal dictatorships, right? I mean, you don't believe anything should be done to topple them. Change has to come from within. No one in the USA would be happy with foreigners ousting their government. Remember the people of Iraq were suspected to be running in the streets praising the fall of Saddam. That we did not see, and what we did see 9the toppling of the statue) was nothing but a PR stunt. The difference is Russia says they will do A for X reasons, and they do exactly that. The USA specifically and NATO on the whole said they would do A for X reasons, but it was really B for Y reasons. So with one you know what to expect. That does not mean that I supported dictatorships. But then you have to question why there is a close alliance with the Saudi's when they are more oppressive than Iraq could ever be. What in your brain allows that disconnect there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Cite? Well I was wrong in the amount of times, but Dre clearly stated that he does not support the invasion. And he is taking you to task on several inconsistencies. No... Unlike you Im pretty consistant in my opposition to the use off non-defensive military force. If I had it my way Russia would leave, and allow Crimeans to have a referendum in the absence of both Russian and Ukrainian troops, and free of Russian and Ukrainian influence. I never said I "supported" anything Russia has done. I simpliy mocked the faux outrage from western powers that are fresh off invading a country, setting up torture prisons, and getting hundreds of thousands of people killed. And you have the same problem... As a supporter of the invasion, occupation, and wholesale torture and slaughter of people in Iraq, you just sound silly crying about whats happened in Crimea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 And to repeat, if there was really confidence in how people felt, there would have been a question on the 'referendum' asking if people wanted to stay a part of Ukraine. That there was no such option made available should be enough to show anyone that the question would not have been a sure thing if people really had a choice. Funny that I don't recall you ever criticizing the US for only having a "practical" two party system? Oh but now everyone else is held to a higher standard now. Ever see a referendum in the US about separation? Oh but now everyone else is held to a higher standard now. There's a real good reason why I don't support the G7 in all of this! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I think it should be added in response to Argus, that he supports an election under military occupation....so long as the occupiers are American and the country is Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 ...and so long as the occupiers are Canadian, and the country is Haiti or Afghanistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASIP Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) The Great Depression in Ukraine is due to radicals in power. Yes, we are in Ukraine in Great Depression. I mean we are depressed and our economy is doing very badly. And who's to blame? They are not only our richmen (oligarchs) we call them who are busy stuffing their own pockets with money. Western democracies made their contribution into it as well! I ask you, why are they pushing our radicals nationalists from the western regions of Ukraine into power structures in Kiiv? They are all mostly criminals, robbing people in streets and in trains and in their houses even! Come into this city Vinnitsa and see with your own eyes. They may demand you to repair their car or give them meat or chicken on the market or even some shop without paying any money at all! Everybody is scared to oppose this practice. Sick and tired of this already!!! I know that in many other Ukrainian districts it's the same practice. And when they get real official power what should we expect of them? Want go to Canada where there are hell of Ukrainians they say. No nationalistic elements I hope. You are late. This kind of stories was spread by Russian propaganda about three weeks ago. Now you have to sing about federalization, "Yanukovich, come back and save us!" and illegal elections on May 25th. Check with your supervisors. Edited April 1, 2014 by ASIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Funny that I don't recall you ever criticizing the US for only having a "practical" two party system? Oh but now everyone else is held to a higher standard now. This may well be the DUMBEST comparison anyone has made in the history of the internet... Edited April 1, 2014 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 This may well be the DUMBEST comparison anyone has made in the history of the internet... Just pointing out how so many people think the western democracies are the best, when in fact, provide so little choice that they are only democracies through repetitive propaganda! But somehow, for some far flung reason, people who do not even live in Crimea believe that the Crimeans did not have enough choices in their democratic process!?!? This is what I refer to as holding others to a higher standard! If you don't like my opinion, than let's settle this with a debate! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Just pointing out how so many people think the western democracies are the best, when in fact, provide so little choice that they are only democracies through repetitive propaganda! But somehow, for some far flung reason, people who do not even live in Crimea believe that the Crimeans did not have enough choices in their democratic process!?!? This is what I refer to as holding others to a higher standard! If you don't like my opinion, than let's settle this with a debate! WWWTT Debate what? That Russian ethnics in Crimea want to be part of the Russian state? Why? Bush has never deneid that. Why would he? Why would any of us debate it? Its not the issue. What makes you think you can restate the conflict in such a simplistic, selective and narrow way and any of us should accept your paradigm? What you think a controlled referendum with only two choices on its ballot and clearly designed to cater to Russian ethnics in Crimea is something to debate? Why? Its a fact. What next do you think France can invade Quebec and assist French Quebecers join France? Do you think the Ukraine should invade Canada and assist Ukrianian Canadians separate from Canada? How about Italy? Should they do the same with Italians, etc. Hang on now, I think Mexico should invade the US and assist Mexican Americans take back Texas, New Mexico and California. Also I think the Poles should invade the US and seize Chicago. Get real. Edited April 2, 2014 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 Sorry but I don't know what you're going on about here? Nor was I commenting on something you had said. But you do want to debate or you wouldn't have responded to my comment. I was commenting about the Crimean vote and the alleged democratic votes in western nations. Russia, after seeing the violence in a neighbouring former partner state has an obligation to it's defence, therefore acting accordingly. Nothing unusual happened there and all the parties can at least try to move on. As far as those other countries go, I can give you an example of how Portugal (or at least many of it's citizens) regret wasting their time with Angola/Mozambique! Those colonies were a big waste of time/money/resources/human life! All that effort would have been better spent in developing infrastructure within Portugals borders! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 I was commenting about the Crimean vote and the alleged democratic votes in western nations. There are always lots of nut jobs and radical wackos in every election that you can choose to vote for. They might not be wacked enough to suit you, but you do get multiple choices. You obviously have this huge chip on your shoulder because no one crazy enough to appeal to you is running. That still doesn't make your comparing elections here to the Crimean referendum anything less than odious and dumb. Russia, after seeing the violence in a neighbouring former partner state has an obligation to it's defence, therefore acting accordingly. There wasn't any violence in the Crimea. This is something you Russian supporters seem to consistently gloss over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASIP Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) Russia, after seeing the violence in a neighbouring former partner state has an obligation to it's defence, therefore acting accordingly. What obligation?! "Accordingly" to what? Edited April 3, 2014 by ASIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 What obligation?! "Accordingly" to what? Obligation to their own defence. China acted in the same manner when US led forces pushed the NK all the way back and were about to defeat them. China came to their aid because they were obligated to maintain a balance of power in the area. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 There are always lots of nut jobs and radical wackos in every election that you can choose to vote for. They might not be wacked enough to suit you, but you do get multiple choices. You obviously have this huge chip on your shoulder because no one crazy enough to appeal to you is running. That still doesn't make your comparing elections here to the Crimean referendum anything less than odious and dumb. There wasn't any violence in the Crimea. This is something you Russian supporters seem to consistently gloss over. What are you talking about? Are you writing that there wasn't enough ridiculous choices on the Crimean ballot? Try thinking about what you are writing and try another approach in the debate. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 WWT here was my point. Just want to clarify it because I am not trying to belittle your position just challenge it. I think the pretext Russia used to invade the Ukraine was fabricated. Unlike you I do not believe for a second any Russian ethnic Ukrainians were being harassed justifying Russia's invasion anymore than Putin's despicable reference to suggesting he was invading to protect the Ukraine's 300,000 Jews from anti-Semitic Ukrainians. The Ukrainian Jewish community was and is behind their fellow Ukraines. Any anti-Semitism issues in the Ukraine like they are in Russia pre-existed the Crimea dispute and are not related. Putin fabricated an excuse to invade. No Ukrainians were engaging in terrorism against Russia from Ukrainian borders. No Russian ethnics were being harmed in any way. The vote you refer to was run by the Russian government. They had appointed an organized criminal from the Russian mafia as Governor of Crimea. That is why I used the analogy I used. You want to debate the Crimea vote then yes what you are arguing is that any country should invade any other country on the pretext its saving ethnics or nationals. Yes the analogy is Italy should invade Canada under the pretext we are abusing Italians. Of course that would be as absurd as Poland invading the US to seize Chicago because their are so many Polish Americans in Chicago. -all probably the staunchest of Us patriots I might add I was just using it to show the absurdity of Russia'sc claim. DeGaulle did try stick his face in Canadian internal matters and scream out Vives Quebec Libre. It was considered an outrageous slight on our sovereignty and even French Quebecers were shocked by it. No this notion you can invade countries under false pretenses is to be questioned.The same people who questioned the US invasion of Iraq and condemned it now support Putin? They remained silent when Russia went into Afghanistan but when the US did it, all hell breaks loose? That is what I am getting at. The so called anti Americans on this forum hold Putin to a different standard than the US and then try back pedal from it. Do I disagree with the US invasion of Afghanistan? Do I disagree with Canada being in Afghanistan? I am very mixed on it. I believe it puts us on ashaky ground of precedent that allows Putins of the world to justify their invasions equating them to ours. I do think going in and deposing Hussein was an act of humanity, Remaining there and blowing up the country to enable Halburton to bankrupt the US with mega contracts to rebuild the country and absolutely devour it with a private army far larger than the US Army I was against. I agreed with the US army that said, get in then get out. I disagreed with Bush and Chaney's extended stay and destruction of the infrastructure. In Afghanistan I commend the Canadian Armed Forces for their role but on another level think it was a futile and wasted mission and ill conceived. None of that justifies what Putin did. Putin has now made it clear he laughs at international law now and does what ever he wants.He has established himself as the bad guy on the block. Catering to him, appeasing him, trying to rationalize what he did and pretend he saved people is no different than what people did with Hitler at the beginning of his disasterous campaign, Putin is a devout follower of Stalin. I suggest you read up on Stalin because that is who Putin is emulating and that is going to trigger a world recession as Europe has to rearrange its economy to spend more on military and find itself blackmailed with gas and oil prices by him, The reality is Canada stripped its military of any meaning. Harper can bark all he wants to placate his Canadian Ukrainian audience but it doesn'tmean a thing to Putin. Replacing oil and gas supplies from Russia with Canadian ones, would. Our problem in Canada is we have no military and we have a huge undefended border with Russia. We have always assumed the US had our backs? Why now? The US is bankrupt? How is it going to cover our backside up North without our conceding benefits to it for doing that? For the US to cover our back side they will want rights to exploit the North to make it in their interest. If we plan to say, uh no, its Canadian, how we going to stand up to Putin-what we will send some "Rangers: in kayaks to throw ice at them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Ok Rue, you're going to have to start doing some research here. There's a good reason why I have established the opinion that I am expressing here! http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVkDLzz5TiWYAhs4XFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByODJtaWUzBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1396654156/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.washingtonpost.com%2fblogs%2fmonkey-cage%2fwp%2f2014%2f02%2f07%2fwhat-you-need-to-know-about-putins-popularity%2f/RK=0/RS=_NRVlk6GYBRwD3fNwcYYS6GHfLg- As far as the Stalin connection goes, it doesn't add up. Russia is a democracy, but of course you hold them to a higher standard! http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVkDLzz5TiWYAhs4XFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByODJtaWUzBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1396654156/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.washingtonpost.com%2fblogs%2fmonkey-cage%2fwp%2f2014%2f02%2f07%2fwhat-you-need-to-know-about-putins-popularity%2f/RK=0/RS=_NRVlk6GYBRwD3fNwcYYS6GHfLg- http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A2KLktm60T5Ti3sAwVL2FAx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBpcGszamw0BHNlYwNmcC1pbWcEc2xrA2ltZw--/RV=2/RE=1396654650/RO=11/RU=https%3a%2f%2ftravelcanada.wikispaces.com%2fPolitical%2bMap%2bof%2bCanada/RK=0/RS=sd05PLn5jgY.0uF8mKG6M4_xkak- If you make another long winded reply back to me without one sound link to back anything up, I will not respond back to you! That simple buddy! Starting to get real tired wasting my time with unsubstantiated opinions on this forum! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 I still do not understand why those countries which border Russia or feel threatened by it do not run their own snap referendums. Everyone is disputing the assertion by Putin that he was only following the wishes of the majority in the Crimea. A referendum in each of these countries indicating that the majority of the population wants nothing to do with the Russians would go a long way to undermine the legality of any future aggression by the Russians. Why not be pro-active in this crisis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Starting to get real tired wasting my time with unsubstantiated opinions on this forum! WWWTT We have all had that with yours now for some time. Welcome to the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 If the reasoning is that the Crimea used to be Russian then the next logical step would be that Russia invades Alaska to get it back to Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 If the reasoning is that the Crimea used to be Russian then the next logical step would be that Russia invades Alaska to get it back to Russia. No that's something you just made up. It was clear that there was a referendum, and this was the result. However, the fact that the area used to be part of the Soviet socialist Republic (USSR or CCCP), probably led to many people from different regions moving from one region to others. That much seems to be the case here. You logic is blurred by ignorance my friend! Click on the link and enlighten yourself a bit, perhaps your opinion may change with a little education. http://ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVi90Kj9TFxMAMi4XFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByMG04Z2o2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1396677364/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fAlaska_Purchase/RK=0/RS=Rj06NyGdnTfr1JNoTNU1B_GAHC0- WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 Looks like there's some spill over from this event, but not is a traditional sense from Russia. Looks like the US has some concern that emerging nations are challenging their traditional authority. We'll see what happens from this. https://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-warns-china-not-attempt-crimea-style-action-035824391.html WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 I still do not understand why those countries which border Russia or feel threatened by it do not run their own snap referendums. Everyone is disputing the assertion by Putin that he was only following the wishes of the majority in the Crimea. A referendum in each of these countries indicating that the majority of the population wants nothing to do with the Russians would go a long way to undermine the legality of any future aggression by the Russians. Why not be pro-active in this crisis? The legality of any future agression? Their agression in Crimea had no legality behind it. No one thinks otherwise. But the thing is, there is no rule of law in Russia. So what does a law mean when the government can simply interpret it in any way it wants to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iolo Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 If anyone supposes any state is going to welcome armed enemies next door, they must be CIA employees earning their crust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) WW your opinions are not subjective? What you only state objective analysis that is infallible? What do you think this forum is other than a platform for you,me and anyone else to spout their subjective opinions? What you think stating Russia is a democracy is a substantiated fact? You think your statements are not long winded? What you have a monopoly on stating opinion? Give it a rest. You came on this forum and stated that Russia invaded the Ukraine as a defensive act. That is a total crock. You didn't substantiate it. You claimed Russia is a democracy, and now claim I hold it to a different standard than other countries-what a crock as well Go on show me how Putin did not control the vote in Crimea. You say I have no substantial basis? Hey pal, you came on here and proposed the Crimean vote was done freely and was democratic and now Russia is democratic and you call me long winded and unsubstantiated? You want to come on this forum and state Russia is a democracy? Really? Go on provide one document to show Russian nationals in the Ukraine were threatened. Provide one document to explain how the criminal appointed the Governor of the Ukraine is anything but a puppet and was not involved in and is still part of the Russian mo. Give it a rest with the tone. You don't like my opinion? Don't read it. Express subjective opinions all you get back from me is the same. Edited April 5, 2014 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Thanks Rue, I found that long winded "link-less" comment humorous! Here's a link bringing us back to the Ukraine crisis! http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraines-neo-nazis-stepan-bandera-and-the-legacy-of-world-war-ii/5373773 Looks like many people are concerned of the nazi connection in the Ukraine! Can't blame them either considering what they want to do! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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