Conservative Budget Surplus

[Guest Derek L]

Personal tax rates or corporate tax rates?

Sorry if you're new to the conversation......we've been talking about income splitting.

[Guest Derek L]

Then you'll have ask your neoliberal compatriots to stop demanding "government should be run like a business!"...

It shouldn't!!!...Businesses/corporations are soulless aggregations of business...Profit centre's...Government of any stripe cannot descend to that level...

And as far as "who's money is it?" goes...At the moment,it's whoever is holding our public debt...

Who's doing that? And again, since you’re new to the topic, I’ve been saying all along that Government is not a business.

Please try and keep up.

[GostHacked]

And nobody said we won't put a portion of our surplus to use servicing our debt.

Certainly…….We paid our mortgage, car payments, bills etc, but didn’t use all “surplus funds” to make extra payments at the expense of such things as family vacations, entertainment, going out for dinner etc.

Do you?

When money is tight, what are the first things you cut? Not everyone is like this, but the overwhelming majority of people carry a high debt load for various reasons. IF money is tight for the government, does their entertainment stop?

I do not have any debt whatsoever. That may change if I buy a house in the next year.

Sure, I've not a issues with the Federal Government having a contingency “cushion”, but 3+ Billion is not a cushion, especially when middle income Canadians have high personal debt……..As I said earlier, Canadian household debt is a greater potential threat to our economy then the National debt.

Well people need to get their priorities straight when it comes to money and what is needed over what is desired and what they can afford.

Yet Government at all levels is not a business.

For all intents and purposes it is in fact a business. The government runs and operates just like a business. The only difference is the government does not seek a profit, which I think is the wrong way to go.

Continually borrowing means our economic state on the whole is not good. That is also an indication of our true wealth and what this nation is really worth. Your great grandkids are going to be paying for all this, just as you are paying for your previous generations. Essentially a debt slave. The nation is banking on future generations being productive in society. Buy now, pay later.

Who or what entity does Canada owe all this money too?

[Guest Derek L]

When money is tight, what are the first things you cut? Not everyone is like this, but the overwhelming majority of people carry a high debt load for various reasons. IF money is tight for the government, does their entertainment stop?

I do not have any debt whatsoever. That may change if I buy a house in the next year.

Though we’re discussing surplus funds, I agree about belt tightening in the bad times…..As such, I “blame” our last several years of deficit spending on not only the Liberals and NDP, but also the Government for acquiescence of the Oppositions demands out of fear of another election. I suppose that is another topic that has been played out here none the less.

Well people need to get their priorities straight when it comes to money and what is needed over what is desired and what they can afford.

I agree, but ultimately that is the peoples decision…….Returning a portion of taxes will allow those that do choose the wisest course further benefit.

For all intents and purposes it is in fact a business. The government runs and operates just like a business. The only difference is the government does not seek a profit, which I think is the wrong way to go.

So Government operates like a failing business……..that’s a comparison that I can accept

Continually borrowing means our economic state on the whole is not good. That is also an indication of our true wealth and what this nation is really worth. Your great grandkids are going to be paying for all this, just as you are paying for your previous generations. Essentially a debt slave. The nation is banking on future generations being productive in society. Buy now, pay later.

Who or what entity does Canada owe all this money too?

Being realistic, our National debt will take generations to pay-off…….Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t put money towards it, but like a mortgage, accept that it’s a long term commitment, as such, the projected ~2.7 billion that the planned tax cuts will cost might take a decade or two off the backend, a backend that all currently alive Canadians will never see.

As I’ve asked numerous times, cognisant of political realities, will current Canadians put their own interests aside today for the benefit of some Canadians in the 2100s?

[AlienB]

I know maybe they can apply the 3 Billion surplus to the 300 plus billion in debt they've accumulated since 2008.

But really how much of that surplus is from the sale of GM shares that cost how much?

This seems to be perhaps just a asset sale rather than a budget victory.

In the US it amounts to 10 billion in losses how much in Canada?

This article says it cost 13.7 Billion so is that a 3 Billion Surplus or a 10 billion fake deficit shell game?

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2013/05/31/canadas-auto-bailout-still-waiting-for-payback/

http://blogs.wsj.com/canadarealtime/2013/09/11/canada-sheds-gm-shares-as-it-eyes-bottom-line/

Edited November 18, 2013 by AlienB

[Guest Derek L]

I know maybe they can apply the 3 Billion surplus to the 300 plus billion in debt they've accumulated since 2008.

But really how much of that surplus is from the sale of GM shares that cost how much?

This seems to be perhaps just a asset sale rather than a budget victory.

In the US it amounts to 10 billion in losses how much in Canada?

This article says it cost 13.7 Billion so is that a 3 Billion Surplus or a 10 billion fake deficit shell game?

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2013/05/31/canadas-auto-bailout-still-waiting-for-payback/

http://blogs.wsj.com/canadarealtime/2013/09/11/canada-sheds-gm-shares-as-it-eyes-bottom-line/

Read your WSJ link.

[Accountability Now]

I know maybe they can apply the 3 Billion surplus to the 300 plus billion in debt they've accumulated since 2008.

Can you tell me where you are getting the 300 billion Plus since 2008? The CBC article below shows that as being quite a bit lower.

http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/canada-deficit/

[Wilber]

Can you tell me where you are getting the 300 billion Plus since 2008? The CBC article below shows that as being quite a bit lower.

http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/canada-deficit/

You're right, it was a meazly 150 billion.

[Accountability Now]

You're right, it was a meazly 150 billion.

So half as much. Thanks

[eyeball]

I really have very little patience for Baby Boomers who think they should get tax cuts now that there's a surplus. Go do a backflip into an empty pool, Baby Boomers.

My view on tax cuts is: no to another cut in the GST, and no new tax credits or benefits or exemptions.

If there is a tax cut, it should be a cut to the marginal rates for low and moderate income Canadians, and nothing more.

-k

I'm at the tail end of the pig passing through the inter-generational python and I have to concur. I suspect BB's are not going to engender much patience generally as our numbers dwindle.

For what it's worth, I ain't no senator's son.

[GostHacked]

As I’ve asked numerous times, cognisant of political realities, will current Canadians put their own interests aside today for the benefit of some Canadians in the 2100s?

Our government does not consider that. They are only looking a decade or two at most. Most only look to the end of their term. Short term gains, long term pains. I think it is a mentality most of our government is in and most people are in. If it's not an immediate threat or problem, then even 10 years down the road is a long time.

[eyeball]

And I hope the Liberals and NDP campaign on that viewpoint.

Derek on the other hand seems more like a fortunate one.

Maybe they should campaign on the basis of a fear of ageism - who wants to face the sort of resentment that'll likely be reserved for those who are left to explain the excesses of their peers in their old age? Not me. I'd rather retire to an ice floe except there probably won't be any in another 20 - 30 years. Elysium is also probably not in the cards either.

[Wilber]

I'm at the tail end of the pig passing through the inter-generational python and I have to concur. I suspect BB's are not going to engender much patience generally as our numbers dwindle.

For what it's worth, I ain't no senator's son.

I do take some exception to kimmy's words. My wife and I are at the front end of the pig and both of us have regarded fiscal conservatism in our personal lives as making debt reduction our number one priority. As a result, we didn't enjoy some of the things many of our pier's were indulging in but are benifiting from it now and so will our kids when we croak. As a matter of fact, they and our grandkids are benifiting from it now.

In our world, there is no such thing as a surplus when you are 600 billion in the hole. I guess that's just the way we were brought up.

On the other hand, credit wasn't so easy and there is so much more to spend money on these days. There are so many things that are thought of as necessities that didn't even exist. I didn't own a calculator until I was in my thirties, let alone, computers, cell phones, video games etc.People also seem much less restrained about carrying a lot of personal debt.

They have to be if they live in the Vancouver area and want to own a home. Yes, they work hard for what they have but so many young people, including my own kids have far nicer homes and vehicles than we had at their age.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Wilber

[cybercoma]

Where' stage $3.1 billion the AG said they lost?

[PIK]

Where' stage $3.1 billion the AG said they lost?

You will have to ask chretien or martin to see where it went. And it seemed that it took the libs 10 years to pay off a smaller defecit, during good times and harper is paying off a larger one in 1/2 the time and during a global melt down. Is that true?

[cybercoma]

Harper doesn't seem to be too concerned about finding it either. There's probably a good reason fro that. If the party of accountability and fiscal good-sense could peg it to the Liberals, they would.

[Accountability Now]

Harper doesn't seem to be too concerned about finding it either. There's probably a good reason fro that. If the party of accountability and fiscal good-sense could peg it to the Liberals, they would.

Why would he be concerned if the Auditor General was not concerned? As per Tony Clement:

"There is no indication by the Auditor-General that any funds have gone missing, that any funds have been misappropriated or that any funds have been misspent, Mr. Clement said

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/30/government-cant-account-for-3-1b-allocated-to-public-safety-and-anti-terrorism-auditor-generals-reports-says

[cybercoma]

The Gazebo King himself. The auditor general has made it clear that the money cannot be tracked. BILLIONS vanished. Up in thin air. The great fiscal managers, the CPC...and they can't account for billions.

Their response: "Well you can't prove it was misappropriated or misspent."

Nope. Can't. The CPC also can't show where it went.

Is that not the least bit concerning?

[Guest Derek L]

Derek on the other hand seems more like a fortunate one.

In some degree, but for the most part, we're nouveau riche........

Maybe they should campaign on the basis of a fear of ageism - who wants to face the sort of resentment that'll likely be reserved for those who are left to explain the excesses of their peers in their old age? Not me. I'd rather retire to an ice floe except there probably won't be any in another 20 - 30 years. Elysium is also probably not in the cards either.

The "kids" have been "sticking it" to the man since the 60s.........I still have London Calling on vinyl..........But the natural course for the "kids" is to get married, have kids, get saddled with a mortgage and then lease a BMW.......Then all of a sudden the "kids" have become the "man" and realize Johnny Rotten is signing God Save The Queen......in front of the Queen at the Summer Games and that Clash tunes are used in Jaguar commercials.........

We have no need to go on ice floes or into space..........we own the joint......and will pass it on to those "kids" that have got with the program.

[Guest Derek L]

Our government does not consider that. They are only looking a decade or two at most. Most only look to the end of their term. Short term gains, long term pains. I think it is a mentality most of our government is in and most people are in. If it's not an immediate threat or problem, then even 10 years down the road is a long time.

But the Government is only a mirror image of Canadians.......As such, they do what is popular to remain Government.

[Accountability Now]

Their response: "Well you can't prove it was misappropriated or misspent."

Actually...that is the Auditor General's response. So no...I'm not worried about the funds being misspent.

[jacee]

The Gazebo King himself. The auditor general has made it clear that the money cannot be tracked. BILLIONS vanished. Up in thin air. The great fiscal managers, the CPC...and they can't account for billions.

Their response: "Well you can't prove it was misappropriated or misspent."

Nope. Can't. The CPC also can't show where it went.

Is that not the least bit concerning?

"There is no indication by the Auditor-General that any funds have gone missing, that any funds have been misappropriated or that any funds have been misspent, Mr. Clement said

That quote is pure political bafflegab.

"There is no indication ...

because there is intentionally no paper trail of where that $3b went, no information given to the Auditor General.

Of course we know where the millions in 'border security' money went ... Tony Clement's gazebos in Muskoka ... political payoff projects he personally picked.

The rest of the Conservative MP's must have got all hissy about that and demanded equal or better pork for their constituency corruption barrels.

$3b ... phhht!

.

Edited November 20, 2013 by jacee

[jacee]

But the Government is only a mirror image of Canadians.......As such, they do what is popular to remain Government.

I guess the pigs are flying out there, eh?

.

[PIK]

The Gazebo King himself. The auditor general has made it clear that the money cannot be tracked. BILLIONS vanished. Up in thin air. The great fiscal managers, the CPC...and they can't account for billions.

Their response: "Well you can't prove it was misappropriated or misspent."

Nope. Can't. The CPC also can't show where it went.

Is that not the least bit concerning?

Ask the fountain king where it went.

[Guest Derek L]

I guess the pigs are flying out there, eh?

.

In your view, you feel political parties don’t try and (re)elected?