A Canada/US merger?

[Topaz]

In Diane Francis opinion, she thinks it would be good for Canada to merger with the US, like the EU, which would make it NAU. I don't think IF it was left up to Canadians, that is ever going to happen and I don't think the Americans would want that either. let's face it, the powers that be , tried it and the Americans soon put a stop to it, but it never went away. I don't care how much money they try to buy us, Canadians is always be Canadians, in my view. The Tory government has taken Canada close to a union by all the harmonizing its be doing on various levels. and those people in government and high places, that agree with Francis will keep trying. If Francis wants to be part of the US, then she should go back to Chicago, were she came from. She was on CTV today talking about her book about the a merger. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/09/30/north-american-union-diane-francis-us-canada-merger_n_4016913.html%C2'>

Edited October 4, 2013 by Topaz

[Topaz]

Sorry, guys the link didn't take. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/09/30/north-american-union-diane-francis-us-canada-merger_n_4016913.html

[TimG]

It is a silly idea that has zero chance of ever becoming reality.

Diana Francis is the journalistic equivalent of an internet troll.

The CPC wants to minimize hassles at the border - that does not mean they think a "merger" is desirable.

Edited October 4, 2013 by TimG

[Michael Hardner]

What are countries for, anyway ?

Trade barriers and security barriers don't really exist so much between Canada and the US.

Why do we have them, again ? I fear that a big reason has something to do with identity, which just doesn't make sense to me.

[TimG]

What are countries for, anyway ?

Countries today provide a wide range of social services paid for by income redistribution. These problems are only practical if there is a shared senses of community. National identity is what creates this sense of community.

[jacee]

Sorry, guys the link didn't take. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/09/30/north-american-union-diane-francis-us-canada-merger_n_4016913.html

Diane Francis is dreaming. She thinks the US is going to pay us to join them?

She's making us look stupid.

[Michael Hardner]

Countries today provide a wide range of social services paid for by income redistribution. These problems are only practical if there is a shared senses of community. National identity is what creates this sense of community.

National identity is far-flung, while 'community' is immediate, nearby. Maybe there's a model where super-communities like regions, nations, or global entities can help support communities. Really, though, it's quick change that's the enemy of communities right ?

When quick change happens, it means that somebody, somewhere is benefiting directly - either in one specific place or all over the world. That's how it works in the economy - somebody wins, and somebody loses. There's no point in crying over it, but we can and do mitigate the effects.

Let's think 1000, 10000 years down the road - how will this work ? Maybe autonomous city/states or regions that remain stable through a central body that moderates economic activity ?

[TimG]

National identity is far-flung, while 'community' is immediate, nearby.

Yet people in BC feel more kinship with people in Newfoundland than with people in Florida. Everyone is a part of multiple overlapping communities. National identity is the basis for one of those communities.

Maybe autonomous city/states or regions that remain stable through a central body that moderates economic activity ?

England existed as a community 1000 years ago. There no reason to believe the current nations won't exist 1000 years from now (perhaps minus some parts like Quebec or Scotland). The composition will be very different but the nation will persist.

[Moonlight Graham]

About as likely as a Quebec-Ontario merger.

[Michael Hardner]

Yet people in BC feel more kinship with people in Newfoundland than with people in Florida. Everyone is a part of multiple overlapping communities. National identity is the basis for one of those communities.

But more than people in Washington ?

England existed as a community 1000 years ago. There no reason to believe the current nations won't exist 1000 years from now (perhaps minus some parts like Quebec or Scotland). The composition will be very different but the nation will persist.

As a community, it certainly did exist, but not as a 'nation' in the way we see it today. Borders were looser, language was more fluid, and national identity certainly didn't exist as it does today. Maybe the nation of 1000 years from now will look more like that.

[Guest American Woman]

Diane Francis is dreaming. She thinks the US is going to pay us to join them?

She's making us look stupid.

She's making us look stupid, too.

[The_Squid]

Yet people in BC feel more kinship with people in Newfoundland than with people in Florida.

Yes, but some (many?) people in Vancouver/Vancouver Island may feel more kinship with Seattle to Portland than they do with Newfoundland or even Alberta. Northeastern BCers will feel more "kinship" with Alberta than Vancouver. So it is not necessarily true that we couldn't feel some connection with USA. I'd be willing to bet that many folks in Maine/Vermont/New Hampshire feel closer to southern Ontario than Texas.

Nationalism is a powerful force, but it isn't all-powerful.

While I don't see a merger in the near future, I could see a EU type of relationship, almost... I don't think our border will ever be as easy to cross as the EU borders due to the gun problems in the USA. They would have to get a handle on that first before there could be free range across our borders.

[jacee]

Yes, but some (many?) people in Vancouver/Vancouver Island may feel more kinship with Seattle to Portland than they do with Newfoundland or even Alberta. Northeastern BCers will feel more "kinship" with Alberta than Vancouver. So it is not necessarily true that we couldn't feel some connection with USA. I'd be willing to bet that many folks in Maine/Vermont/New Hampshire feel closer to southern Ontario than Texas.

I don't think any of that's true.

While I don't see a merger in the near future, I could see a EU type of relationship, almost... I don't think our border will ever be as easy to cross as the EU borders due to the gun problems in the USA. They would have to get a handle on that first before there could be free range across our borders.

It's been suggested ...

North_American_Union

Security_and_Prosperity_Partnership_of_North_America

/Independent_Task_Force_on_North_America

And now this!

U.S. 'Homeland' Includes Canada And Mexico On NSA Map

Edited October 4, 2013 by jacee

[Michael Hardner]

Can we all just admit, though, that countries are increasingly pointless ? Individual humans should have rights, and the opportunity to prosper... so how do countries help serve that goal ? Corporations don't abide by them, so why should individuals have to ?

Food for thought.

[TimG]

Can we all just admit, though, that countries are increasingly pointless?

Because they aren't? Countries are large scale 'gated communities' where people can pass rules that suit them while keeping out undesirables. Countries also represent the economic interests of their citizens - that is representation one would never get as an individual.

[The_Squid]

I don't think any of that's true.

You may not think it, but you'd be wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_%28independence_movement%29

Much of the secession movement is tongue-in-cheek, but it shows the close relationship that coastal BC has with Washington and Oregon.

[Argus]

Can we all just admit, though, that countries are increasingly pointless ? Individual humans should have rights, and the opportunity to prosper... so how do countries help serve that goal ? Corporations don't abide by them, so why should individuals have to ?

Food for thought.

Not very tasty food. So you think the border serves little purpose? Would you be happier living in a city where guns are sold at the hardware store, where ammo is freely available at the supermarket? Do you mind living in a country where Stephen Harper would be considered a radical liberal? Do you mind losing your public healthcare and replacing it with a very high priced private insurance scheme?

It's an absurd idea from the US standpoint, as well. The Republicans would recoil in horror at the thought of bringing in tens of millions of left wing Democrats who mostly support high taxes, big government, abortion on demand and gun control.

[eyeball]

I don't think any of that's true.

Speaking from experience I'd say it is true. There is the bio-region and proposed country Cascadia for example and the Makah people who've lived in Neah Bay Washington for thousands of years are directly related to the Ditidaht and Nuu-chah-nulth that have called Vancouver Island home for an even longer time. It's a natural.

I could easily see Cascadia formally evolving in the wake of any kind of socio-economic interregnum with those damn easterners. Bring it on I say.

[Michael Hardner]

Not very tasty food. So you think the border serves little purpose? Would you be happier living in a city where guns are sold at the hardware store, where ammo is freely available at the supermarket? Do you mind living in a country where Stephen Harper would be considered a radical liberal? Do you mind losing your public healthcare and replacing it with a very high priced private insurance scheme?

None of these things are necessarily tied to having countries.

[Guest American Woman]

Do you mind living in a country where Stephen Harper would be considered a radical liberal?

I hardly think Harper would be considered a radical liberal.

[cybercoma]

None of these things are necessarily tied to having countries.

Huh? Of course they are. The border is a legal boundary, wherein our laws apply. Laws passed by OUR government, not another country's government.

[Shady]

I gotta agree with Cyber and Argus et al, countries and borders are still very important. Michael's premise is nonsensical.

[Moonlight Graham]

Globalization has made countries not quite as important as they once were, but they're still very important. It's just a smaller world out there now, with non-state actors (terrorists, transnational corporations) flexing more power than before.

[On Guard for Thee]

Well one thing I did agree with Diane Francis about was the concept that we would need to work out a serious price tag to allow access to some of our stuff. Such as fresh water(tons), arable land(tons), fresh air (tons), Then we would have to consider how to integrate a legal system that jails more people than China, still sentences people to death and sells more guns than Russia, as opposed to where we haven't as a government killed anyone since '62, and have tough gun laws and don't tend to go into schools and shoot a bunch of kids, and then support one of the strongest non political political bodies (the NRA) of course, be allowed to say that the problem was there wasn't enough people with guns.

At this time, I don't think there is enough money to trade what we have for what they have.

[Guest American Woman]

Can we all just admit, though, that countries are increasingly pointless ?

Do you think cities, counties, states, provinces are pointless, too? Do you think everyone has the same ideals? The same priorities? Countries allow a set of people to live by their ideals. Countries assure us that a majority whose ideals we may not agree with cannot take control.