bush_cheney2004 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Maybe, until you're fired and can't get new insurance because you or your child have an ongoing condition - Again, you are woefully ignorant about such things in the United States. If I was "fired" (unionized government workers need fear this least, right?) , my insurance coverage(s) would continue for at least 18 months should I choose to pay the entire premium, which I have done in between gigs. See "COBRA".....it's been U.S. federal law since 1986. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Healthcare is free for some Americans, too, so you really have no point. I agree with this just because the majority of people pay into these systems. Yes for some it is free. But that is in the minority I would guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Again, you are woefully ignorant about such things in the United States. If I was "fired" (unionized government workers need fear this least, right?) , my insurance coverage(s) would continue for at least 18 months should I choose to pay the entire premium, which I have done in between gigs. See "COBRA".....it's been U.S. federal law since 1986. And again, you ignore the fact that lots and LOTS of people can't afford to pay the big premiums after they get fired, and that itt can be extremely difficult to get taken on under another provider, new job or not, if you have a preexisting condition. The whole system is insane. The government already provides health care for the old and health care for the very poor and health care for the military. Why the hell don't you just combine it into one system instead of having a thousand private sector ones? Edited October 21, 2013 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 .....The whole system is insane. The government already provides health care for the old and health care for the very poor and health care for the military. Why the hell don't you just combine it into one system instead of having a thousand private sector ones? Gee....I dunno...maybe because that would suck for the majority of patients and health care providers who value public and private choices. Maybe because it would lead to serious and unacceptable wait time rationing like in Canada. Maybe because a single payer system is politically unacceptable. Do you think there is no "private sector" health care in Canada ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 This is like another "what is an atheist" thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yup. Absolutely brutal smackdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Gee....I dunno...maybe because that would suck for the majority of patients and health care providers who value public and private choices. Choices? What choices? You take whatever your employer gives you or you pay for what little you can afford on your own. There's no bloody choices! Then you go to whatever doctor or hospital your provider tells you to, and accept that your doctor will have to get their clearance for everything he does. Maybe because it would lead to serious and unacceptable wait time rationing like in Canada. You're paying TWICE as much as us! Don't you think if we doubled our spending those wait times would pretty much disappear? Have you had a look at France lately? Maybe because a single payer system is politically unacceptable. Do you think there is no "private sector" health care in Canada ? There is private sector health care in Germany and France and throughout Europe. That doesn't stop them from having top notch public health care. All at half the cost Americans pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 There is private sector health care in Germany and France and throughout Europe. That doesn't stop them from having top notch public health care. All at half the cost Americans pay. This is progress...thank you for confirming that no way in hell would anybody repeat what Canada did. Canada's Supreme Court said it best back in 2005: "Access to a waiting list is not access to health care" Americans pay more because they get more...a lot faster than in Canada, which has one of the most expensive "universal access" systems in the world. By all means...stop being so cheap and do spend more. Make up for it with more cross border shopping for other goods and services ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 There is private sector health care in Germany and France and throughout Europe. That doesn't stop them from having top notch public health care. All at half the cost Americans pay. And to be clear about the "Canadian" system (which is actually separate provincial systems under a federal framework for minimum standards). We have a universal single-payer system. It's public payer and private delivery. The doctors, nurses, and hospital staff are usually not state employees like they are in the UK for example. Our system is not entirely public. It's just public payer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Which is why they camp outside overnight desperate to get in to see an occasional visiting clinic. Sure. Americans camp outside overnight to get Black Friday deals too. But yes, the "working poor" most definitely do get help paying their medical bills. If they don't qualify for help, they aren't "poor." Your ignorance in that area doesn't change the reality. Again. I responded to your initial ignorant post about "Third World Tennessee" pointing out that the volunteer organization originated in Tennessee and that the area in question was a very rural area. Again. Being poor, they would have received free health care elsewhere in the state. Again. Canada also has rural areas with no health services. As to your comment that Washington, D.C. and L.A. aren't rural - the guy interviewed in D.C> went to the free clinic "to take advantage of the free prostate cancer screenings and to have his blood pressure checked." Some of the people in the LA area went for dental work and vision screening. Which isn't covered in Canada, either. But seriously. You should learn a bit about the people in third world countries who attend clinics that foreigners set up; people who walk for days with a helluva lot wrong with them and their children - and you should learn a bit about their living conditions and income - before you insinuate that Americans have it as bad as they do. What a slap in the face to them. I'm sure they would consider a great many of the Americans attending free clinics to be quite wealthy. But as I said, I can play your game. Look at your own country - where people have to go outside of Canada to get the care they were denied in Canada because it either wasn't available or they couldn't get it in time. Also look to the people who were denied payment for the drugs that they needed. Then look towards those citizens who moved and had to pay for the delivery of their baby because they hadn't been living there for the mandatory three months. Then there are the thousands who choose to go outside of Canada for better care - even though they already paid for care in Canada through their taxes. And of course there are those who are put under financial strain because they are out of work so long waiting for care. Many file bankruptcy due to illness, as has already been pointed out. There are 'horror stories' within your own country, but I notice you never pay them any mind. You might try showing some concern for your fellow citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Again. I responded to your initial ignorant post about "Third World Tennessee" pointing out that the volunteer organization originated in Tennessee and that the area in question was a very rural area. Again. Being poor, they would have received free health care elsewhere in the state. Again. Canada also has rural areas with no health services. you continue to attempt to minimize... downplay... the scope of RAM. Somehow, it was news-worthy enough to attract news magazine coverage on 2 of the 3 major U.S. television networks... the principal theme being one along the lines of, "how could such events/need exist within the United States"! I have never seen... never heard... of any such type events in Canada - where thousands of Canadian families/individuals would need to line up/camp out overnight in an attempt to secure a spot... a number... to secure medical, dental, vision care. The purpose of our Reach Across AMerica Program is to replicate the successful Rural AMerica program in order to provide free dental, vision, and medical care for the un- and under-insured, medically underserved, impoverished population across the United States via expeditions staffed by our volunteer corps of medical professionals and support personnel. This Program seeks to address the immediate healthcare needs of thousands of Americans living in both rural and urban areas. Most of the people we reach are either the working poor, who have no insurance or are unable to afford their insurance deductible, or the homeless. In our recent clinics we have seen an increase in the newly jobless and uninsured families who are otherwise unable to access services like those available at RAM clinics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 But as I said, I can play your game. Look at your own country - where people have to go outside of Canada to get the care they were denied in Canada because it either wasn't available or they couldn't get it in time. that game, as you say, was played well in the past 'U.S. dead last in healthcare' thread. The results of that game are not favourable to your narrative... not at all. Based on stats from Canada's most populated province, data/analysis showed the most minimal number of Canadians travelling to the U.S. for healthcare. Alternatively, data/analysis showed the hundreds of thousands of Americans that regularly, that annually, travel outside the U.S. for healthcare... typically for reasons related to insurance coverage limits, insurance coverage denial, costs, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) Canadians began embracing "medical tourism" years ago, eager to get faster access and/or procedures not covered by provinces. Edited October 22, 2013 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Yup. Absolutely brutal smackdown. That too, but my sense of awe at the spectacle of abject wilful ignorance that seems to encompasses every aspect of this issue is on par with the spectacularly jaw-dropping confusion that atheism is likewise heavily infused with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 There is private sector health care in Germany and France and throughout Europe. That doesn't stop them from having top notch public health care. All at half the cost Americans pay. There is public sector health care in the United States. It's called Medicare, Medicaid and CHIP (Children's Health Insurance Program). How many freaking times does this stuff have to be pointed out to you before it begins to sink in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 There are a number of things I reckon we should do as a society without chasing our tails in circles to make a profit. 3 of those things that come to mind are health, education, and welfare. The patchwork quilt that exist in the US on these issues leaves some rather large cracks for people to fall through. Ever see the documentary on the contract awarded to Haliburton to run welfare? That's a good start to the horrors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 There is public sector health care in the United States. It's called Medicare, Medicaid and CHIP (Children's Health Insurance Program). How many freaking times does this stuff have to be pointed out to you before it begins to sink in? Yes, there is also the Veterans Administration, FEHB for federal employees, TriCare for the U.S. military, and several other federal health insurance programs, as well as many state level programs. As I have stated before, on a dollar expenditure basis, these programs dwarf anything in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) This is progress...thank you for confirming that no way in hell would anybody repeat what Canada did. Canada's Supreme Court said it best back in 2005: I have been saying our health system is unacceptable for years, and pointing out the benefits of several of the European systems. That being said, ours is still leagues ahead of yours in terms of efficiency and effictiveness. Americans pay more because they get more... No, they don't get anything more for their extra money. You simply ration it by denying medical services to tens of millions of people. And even by cutting off all those people, and paying twice as much, you still don't get better overall care. That is simply pathetic in terms of cost efficiency. No real conservative would support such a system. Edited October 22, 2013 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I have been saying our health system is unacceptable for years, and pointing out the benefits of several of the European systems. That being said, ours is still leagues ahead of yours in terms of efficiency and effictiveness. Sure it is...that's why each province has official wait time web sites. Canadians love such egalitarian misery, except for those with the means to buy their way to the head of the line, just like the Americans do. No, they don't get anything more for their extra money. You simply ration it by denying medical services to tens of millions of people. And even by cutting off all those people, and paying twice as much, you still don't get better overall care. That is simply pathetic in terms of cost efficiency. No real conservative would support such a system. Some Canadians sure do support such a system....we can see them at the Mayo Clinic and other 'Merkin providers on a regular basis. Just pathetic...huh ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Americans camp outside overnight to get Black Friday deals too. But yes, the "working poor" most definitely do get help paying their medical bills. If they don't qualify for help, they aren't "poor." Your ignorance in that area doesn't change the reality. It's amost unbelievable that you try to rationalize this as people trying to get deals, and blithely dismiss any need for health accecss with "oh there's scads of help for the working poor, don't you worry". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 There is public sector health care in the United States. It's called Medicare, Medicaid and CHIP (Children's Health Insurance Program). How many freaking times does this stuff have to be pointed out to you before it begins to sink in? I'm curious about why you feel the need to 'point out' these systems well AFTER I already mentioned them. Do you not actually read these threads before opening up or are you just posting canned responses? There is specifically aimed public health care, ie, for old, for very poor, for the military (you forgot them fors some reason) and what I suggested is that the grossly overpriced and inefficient health care system could be vastly improved by combining them and offering a system to all Americans. Of course, if people still want to buy their own health care on top of that that's up to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Yes, there is also the Veterans Administration, FEHB for federal employees, TriCare for the U.S. military, and several other federal health insurance programs, as well as many state level programs. As I have stated before, on a dollar expenditure basis, these programs dwarf anything in Canada. And this causes you to be proud for some reason? You're actually bragging because you spend far more than us for similar results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Americans pay more because they get more... By "more," you realize that the US fares worse than average amongst OECD countries in the following areas, right? infant mortality and low birth weight injuries and homicides adolescent pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections HIV and AIDS drug-related deaths obesity and diabetes heart disease chronic lung disease disability That's what America has more of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 The Obamacare money pit's just beginning. Already 300% over budget, Democrats in congress are asking for more money for the Obamacare website. Steny Hoyer wants more money to fix Obamacare exchanges http://washingtonexaminer.com/steny-hoyer-wants-more-money-to-fix-obamacare-exchanges/article/2537600 #Trainwreck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Anyone see Jon Stewart last night? The level of mockery and ridicule is off the charts! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qtx_ZcHOjw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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