The Truth About Obamacare

[Argus]

True....Americans poll in the overwhelming majority for satisfaction with excellent, TIMELY health care in the U.S. How that health care is paid for is a different issue, and any impact on access and waiting to fund "universal, Canadian style health care" is not supported by a majority in the U.S., which already has working public pay options in Medicare, Medicaid, and other programs.

I wonder if they were asked if they'd support it if their premiums dropped by 50%.

[bush_cheney2004]

I wonder if they were asked if they'd support it if their premiums dropped by 50%.

Were Canadians asked if they'd support long wait lists and GP gatekeeping for "lower premiums" ?

[Argus]

Were Canadians asked if they'd support long wait lists and GP gatekeeping for "lower premiums" ?

Our system evolved, much like yours, without any direct input from the public.

I dissaprove of boths systems, but dislike yours the most because it's heartless.

[bush_cheney2004]

Our system evolved, much like yours, without any direct input from the public.

I dissaprove of boths systems, but dislike yours the most because it's heartless.

No direct input in Canada now either...just wait time web sites. As for heartless, organ donation is much higher in the U.S.

[dre]

No direct input in Canada now either...just wait time web sites. As for heartless, organ donation is much higher in the U.S.

Yeah well with so many people dying needlessly it makes sense theres going to be plenty of usable organs kicking around!

[bush_cheney2004]

Nevertheless, Canada has a lower deceased organ donation RATE than many "developed" nations. Strange for a country that claims to care so much about health care for all.

[waldo]

Yeah well with so many people dying needlessly it makes sense theres going to be plenty of usable organs kicking around!

I see from your quote, the guy just keeps repeating his nonsense! Talk about dying on U.S. wait lists! Oh my!

[Guest American Woman]

Yeah well with so many people dying needlessly it makes sense theres going to be plenty of usable organs kicking around!

Hmmmm. Interesting. Americans are so unhealthy due to lack of healthcare that they are dying needlessly - with healthy organs.

[Wilber]

Hmmmm. Interesting. Americans are so unhealthy due to lack of healthcare that they are dying needlessly - with healthy organs.

Gunfire rarely destroys all the organs.

[Guest American Woman]

Gunfire rarely destroys all the organs.

Ahhhh. I see. So Americans aren't "dying needlessly" due to lack of health care.

[Wilber]

Ahhhh. I see. So Americans aren't "dying needlessly" due to lack of health care.

Well not for lack of eligible doners

[Guest American Woman]

Well not for lack of eligible doners

You do realize what a lower "rate" of donation means, right?

At any rate, one doesn't have to be dead in order to donate a kidney or liver or bone marrow .....

[Wilber]

You do realize what a lower "rate" of donation means, right?

At any rate, one doesn't have to be dead in order to donate a kidney or liver or bone marrow .....

I'm only being partially serious. Certainly, the more young healthy people you have dieing violently has a big effect on your potential donor pool. That said, Canadians do not have a particularly impressive record when it comes to signing up as potential donors. I've been on donor lists since they first came out but I'm now too old to donate bone marrow and I spent too much time in the UK between 1980 and 1996 to donate blood. Not sure how much use the rest of me would be any more.

I think, for people who can get insurance in the US, pre existing conditions is a big issue. Maybe the biggest.

[Guest American Woman]

I'm only being partially serious. Certainly, the more young healthy people you have dieing violently has a big effect on your potential donor pool.

It has absolutely no bearing on the "rate."

That said, Canadians do not have a particularly impressive record when it comes to signing up as potential donors. I've been on donor lists since they first came out but I'm now too old to donate bone marrow and I spent too much time in the UK between 1980 and 1996 to donate blood. Not sure how much use the rest of me would be any more.

I commend you. But I'm curious - what does spending time in the UK have to do with donating blood?

I think, for people who can get insurance in the US, pre existing conditions is a big issue. Maybe the biggest.

Could be, but in some instances it makes sense, as I've said previously; to wait until you are ill and then expect to be able to purchase insurance to pay for the care is rather naive.

[Wilber]

It has absolutely no bearing on the "rate."

I agree and don't know why. I can't think of a better legacy than giving someone else life as a result of your own misfortune.

I commend you. But I'm curious - what does spending time in the UK have to do with donating blood?

Mad Cow. If you spent more than 90 days in the UK during that period, you can't donate blood in Canada.

Could be, but in some instances it makes sense, as I've said previously; to wait until you are ill and then expect to be able to purchase insurance to pay for the care is rather naïve.

That's why everyone needs to be covered.

During the early nineties, I worked as a contract pilot in Alaska for a US company that hired out crews to foreign airlines. Our medical coverage was provided by the company. One of the Americans working there had his first child just before he started with this company. Just over a year later, the baby was diagnosed with a heart condition which was going to require very expensive specialized surgery in a major lower forty eight clinic to correct. The insurance company denied coverage because it was a birth defect and therefore a pre existing condition. A fair chunk of the cash was raised through his fellow employees but it still cost this young couple a lot and was quite a financial setback.

He thought he had coverage all the time but because it wasn't portable, both insurance companies were able to wriggle off the hook. You really need to fix that.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Wilber

[waldo]

Certainly, the more young healthy people you have dieing violently has a big effect on your potential donor pool.

yes - mortality rates have a direct correlation with the size of the available donor pool.

[Wilber]

yes - mortality rates have a direct correlation with the size of the available donor pool.

True but I think BC and AW are correct in pointing out that a lower percentage of Canadians sign up as donors than in many other countries.

[Guest American Woman]

True but I think BC and AW are correct in pointing out that a lower percentage of Canadians sign up as donors than in many other countries.

Yes, because size has nothing to do with rate; of course a country with 312 million people is going to have a greater number of people dying than a country with 33 million people. That goes without saying. But again, one does not have to be dead to be an organ donor - as I pointed out. Edited October 26, 2013 by American Woman

[Wilber]

Yes, because size has nothing to do with rate; of course a country with 312 million people is going to have a greater number of people dying than a country with 33 million people. That goes without saying.

True but dead young healthy people make much better donors than dead old sick people.

[Guest American Woman]

True but dead young healthy people make much better donors than dead old sick people.

Same applies in Canada.

[waldo]

True but I think BC and AW are correct in pointing out that a lower percentage of Canadians sign up as donors than in many other countries.

no - as I explained/highlighted in another thread... and just linked to a few posts back:

I see from your quote, the guy just keeps repeating his nonsense! Talk about dying on U.S. wait lists! Oh my!

"Canada's figures only include completed transplants - actual donated tissue/organs transplanted. U.S./Spain rates include non-transplant numbers. When considering actual donor transplants, those transplant procedures completed, the ratio for Canada is 3.2 organs transplanted per donor... for the U.S., 3.0 per donor... and for Spain, 2.6 per donor."

[Argus]

No direct input in Canada now either...just wait time web sites. As for heartless, organ donation is much higher in the U.S.

That's nice, but completely irrelevent.

I said your health care system is heartless, not individual Americans.

[Wilber]

Same applies in Canada.

Of course but a difference would be the rate of violent deaths among young people.

[Guest American Woman]

Of course but a difference would be the rate of violent deaths among young people.

Which would have nothing to do with the donation rate. You do realize that right?

[waldo]

Same applies in Canada.

about those U.S. waiting lists... the one that, per 2012 stats, has 18 persons dying in the U.S. per day because of a lack of available donors.