The Truth About Obamacare

[bush_cheney2004]

but I thought the whole idea about "Obama Care" was supposed to be about those who have no coverage but I may be mistaken. I don't claim to know anything about "Obama Care" so I have refrained from expressing any opinions on it, unlike you who seems to think he knows everything about the Canadian system.

Yes...you were mistaken on that count. The ACA ("Obamacare") is a very complex set of changes designed to curb the growth in U.S. health care costs and provide funding mechanisms to pay for people added to the insurance pool(s). It is a huge windfall for the insurance companies.

I do know everything about the Canadian system...that's why we rejected single payer right off the bat.

[Wilber]

Yes...you were mistaken on that count. The ACA ("Obamacare") is a very complex set of changes designed to curb the growth in U.S. health care costs and provide funding mechanisms to pay for people added to the insurance pool(s). It is a huge windfall for the insurance companies.

I do know everything about the Canadian system...that's why we rejected single payer right off the bat.

Then I guess it's a big win for the party of business. Enjoy.

[bush_cheney2004]

Then I guess it's a big win for the party of business. Enjoy.

Thank you...I will. Canadian based CGI Group made a princely sum on the "Obamacare" roll out, even though it hosed up some of the web site performance.

[Guest Derek L]

You are dodging the issue...not sure why...but it ain't equal for "all Canadians" when it comes to basic health care, and it never will be. Some procedures are not even covered by some provinces.

This is true.....I haven’t really followed the ins and outs of Obamacare…….Does it touch on dental and optometry? I ask since both areas are lacking within our Healthcare system……..In my view, once the bugs are worked out with Obamacare, something similar should be looked at for Canadians without dental & vision coverage…….

Overall, if one is to have “free healthcare”, why would one neglect the mouth and eyes?

Another question, related to a more anecdotal line, with Obamacare we hear the cries of pending wait times coming to an American hospital near you, but cutting through the BS, will there actually be a queue to jump for people with means? I ask since just last week the wife had a day surgery on her wrist at a local private clinic, which though we paid out of pocket a handsome sum, it sped up the process by months (perhaps closer to a year) then if we had of went through our Provincial Medical Service Plan and it’s ingrained “wait times” for “non-emergency” surgeries……..

[Wilber]

Good for CGI

Edited October 20, 2013 by Wilber

[Guest Derek L]

Thank you...I will. Canadian based CGI Group made a princely sum on the "Obamacare" roll out, even though it hosed up some of the web site performance.

Don't tell them that.....do you want to turn this into another spy games thread?

[waldo]

This is true.....I haven’t really followed the ins and outs of Obamacare…….Does it touch on dental and optometry? I ask since both areas are lacking within our Healthcare system……..In my view, once the bugs are worked out with Obamacare, something similar should be looked at for Canadians without dental & vision coverage.

wow! Give them a break, hey! OCare is, quite obviously, intended as an attempt to work away at the foundation that positions the U.S. as 'the worst healthcare provider' among developed nations. Getting medical coverage for those millions upon millions of Americans without insurance is the thrust/need before dental/optometry is even a consideration.

Another question, related to a more anecdotal line, with Obamacare we hear the cries of pending wait times coming to an American hospital near you, but cutting through the BS, will there actually be a queue to jump for people with means?

geezaz! You clearly know nothing about OCare and who it is intended to target... not exactly, "people with means"!

[Guest Derek L]

wow! Give them a break, hey! OCare is, quite obviously, intended as an attempt to work away at the foundation that positions the U.S. as 'the worst healthcare provider' among developed nations. Getting medical coverage for those millions upon millions of Americans without insurance is the thrust/need before dental/optometry is even a consideration.

General health and care of ones mouth and eyes is one in the same…….As I asked though, does Obamacare have provisions for dental and vision? If it does, overnight, their version of public health will have surpassed ours…..

geezaz! You clearly know nothing about OCare and who it is intended to target... not exactly, "people with means"!

Now my question was clear.......Will Obamacare actually foster wait times like we have here? If so, are there provisions for those that can pay out of pocket to seek faster treatment?

[Guest American Woman]

General health and care of ones mouth and eyes is one in the same…….As I asked though, does Obamacare have provisions for dental and vision? If it does, overnight, their version of public health will have surpassed ours…..

Just for kids:

"Supporters of better dental care for children successfully pushed to have dental and vision services for children included in the law’s 10 categories of essential benefits."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/obamacare-and-kids-dental-vision-coverage/2013/10/14/1b0183e2-3108-11e3-8627-c5d7de0a046b_story.html

Edited October 20, 2013 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

It gets even worse for poor Barry. I really need to start a new threat titled Obamacare Incompetence. But for now, I'll post here. The trainwreck continues...

Obamacare Website Violates Licensing Agreement for Copyrighted Software

Company to pursue action against HHS for using copyrighted web script

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-website-violates-licensing-agreement-copyrighted-software_763666.html

You missed a key element here Shady.

The script in question is called DataTables, a very long and complex piece of website software used for formatting and presenting data. DataTables was developed by a British company called SpryMedia which licenses the open-source software freely to anyone who complies with the licensing agreement. A note at the bottom of the DataTables.net website says: "DataTables designed and created by SpryMedia © 2008-2013." The company explains the license for using the software on that website [emphasis added]:

The terms of the agreement to use the software was violated. Also the fact it is open source software and FREE, this is really a non issue. A simply correction in giving the proper group credit for the scripts.

Good luck suing over open source software.

[Argus]

Americans pay more and spend more...because they get more...lots more...and a lot faster. Most Americans would not tolerate the way health care is rationed in Canada, leading to legendary wait times for even the most routine procedures.

I have not seen any study of American health care which puts it above Canada. In terms of its comparison to the rest of the world, it never leads in anything. You might think it's the best in the world, and for the money you pay it ought to be, but nobody who studies it seems to agree. You pay more than twice what the French do and their system is far and away better than yours. Besides, you ration it even worse than we do. You simply deny it to tens of millions of people who can't afford to pay for it and cut off those with ongoing illnesses.

[Argus]

I know it was called Manitoba..or Saskatchewan...or (pick a province or territory):

Canadian children need better access to dental care regardless of where they live or their family's income, say pediatricians concerned about tooth decay.

Children with rotting baby teeth or "early childhood caries" can suffer poor growth, behavioural problems, poor learning, and sleep loss, the Canadian Pediatric Society said in a report Friday.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/dental-care-access-too-unequal-say-pediatricians-1.1358144

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/severe-tooth-decay-top-reason-for-preschoolers-day-surgery-1.2101517

Dental care generally isn't covered by provincial insurance programs. But there is an exception. If you get a toothache or your teeth are rotting you can still go to a hospital and get treated. Free.

[Argus]

This is not true at all, as there are provincial residency rules and other disqualifiers that prevent some Canadians from getting such care, and even when they have health cards, services vary widely from region to region...province to province. Some Canadians can't even find a GP, the gatekeeper to health care procedures.

You are nitpicking. And even those people who can't find a GP can go to a clinic, generally get seen within the hour, and get prescriptions or further diagnostic services/referalls to specialists if the doctor thinks they need them.

[Argus]

Sorry if exploding the myths of "free" health care without any related bankruptcies in Canada ruins the fun, but I don't have to drink the Flavor-Aid, not in Canada or the U.S. Health care is not a right in either nation.

You are being disengenuous, which is fairly typical for you. Health care in Canada is provided by the provinces at no charge to its users. Of course the government uses a variety of tax dollars to provide it. No one thinks or has ever thought otherwise. On the other hand, if you're dirt poor you probably don't pay much or any taxes to speak of, yet can still get extraordinarily expensive health care at no charge to you.

It's funny how so many in the US pump their chests and spout bible phrases at the drop of a hat, but have so very little interest in basic Christian concepts about helping their fellow man. In fact, it seems the more one adhers to the Christian right the less one cares for anyone's welfare but their own.

[Argus]

Nothing about bankruptcies ? I must have misread those posts...my bad. As for Obamacare, I am double insured for medical, dental, and eye care, with far better coverage and access to world class services than government financed care in Canada or the U.S.

...with no waiting !

And who pays for it and how much does it cost them?

[Argus]

Thank you...I will. Canadian based CGI Group made a princely sum on the "Obamacare" roll out, even though it hosed up some of the web site performance.

As a stockholder I've been following that aspect with some interest. One of the things I've noted is an abscence of insider accusations towards CGI. Given the justified abuse hurled at them over this you'd expect administration insiders or those at the HHS to be telling the media it's all CGI's fault, in non-attributable leaks of course. You would also expect CGI to be defending themselves, explaining what happened. Neither has happened, leading me to believe, as some others have suggested, that CGI warned them repeatedly this wasn't going to work, given the innumerable last minute changes demanded, in the time schedule they wanted, and were ignored. Thus the administration and HHS don't want to bad talk the company, and in return, the company doesn't want to explain what happened because that would be blaming their client, the government.

[GostHacked]

You are being disengenuous, which is fairly typical for you. Health care in Canada is provided by the provinces at no charge to its users.

Canada's health care system is NOT free. We pay for it through taxes.

[Argus]

Canada's health care system is NOT free. We pay for it through taxes.

It is free to use. No one thinks it's 'free' in the context of some elves or fairies providing it. It doesn't cost anything to use, any more than driving on a city street or walking in a city park.

[GostHacked]

It is free to use. No one thinks it's 'free' in the context of some elves or fairies providing it. It doesn't cost anything to use, any more than driving on a city street or walking in a city park.

I will contest the notion of 'free'. It's not free. It's payed by taxes. Gives a false impression of a system, we in fact pay for.

[Argus]

And I think you're full of [fill in the blank].

Truth? Was that the word you were looking for?

I think the problem is some Americans are so utterly ignorant about life in their country for those who don't have their money and security and so utterly lacking in imagination they seem to think everyone has it as good as them.

http://www.blackvoicenews.com/news/47892-quiet-desperation-free-sb-health-clinic-draws-thousands.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/04/free-medical-clinic-for-u_n_670912.html

http://news.msn.com/us/free-health-care-center-drawing-huge-crowds

http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news/news-stockton/Free-health-clinic-in-Stockton-draws-thousands/-/12969936/18199670/-/go6m2rz/-/index.html

http://government180.blogspot.ca/2011/04/sacramento-bee-free-health-care-clinic.html

[Guest American Woman]

It doesn't cost anything to use, any more than driving on a city street or walking in a city park.

It doesn't cost me anything to drive down a street in Canada or walk in a city park either - yet I can't use you're healthcare system, so your examples are not comparable.

[Argus]

I will contest the notion of 'free'. It's not free. It's payed by taxes. Gives a false impression of a system, we in fact pay for.

Suppose I don't pay any taxes. Can I still walk in a park, still get health care services?

[Guest American Woman]

Truth? Was that the word you were looking for?

I think the problem is some Americans are so utterly ignorant about life in their country for those who don't have their money and security and so utterly lacking in imagination they seem to think everyone has it as good as them.

http://www.blackvoicenews.com/news/47892-quiet-desperation-free-sb-health-clinic-draws-thousands.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/04/free-medical-clinic-for-u_n_670912.html

http://news.msn.com/us/free-health-care-center-drawing-huge-crowds

http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news/news-stockton/Free-health-clinic-in-Stockton-draws-thousands/-/12969936/18199670/-/go6m2rz/-/index.html

http://government180.blogspot.ca/2011/04/sacramento-bee-free-health-care-clinic.html

And I think you're so utterly ignorant about the reality of the situation in the U.S. that you can't present the facts accurately.

So no, "truth" is hardly what I was going for.

Edited October 20, 2013 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

Suppose I don't pay any taxes. Can I still walk in a park, still get health care services?

Sure you can. For you it might be free. Collectively as a population it is not free. When you don't pay your fair share the cost goes up for those that do.

And if you need to go to a hospital, you should get there on your own. Ambulance rides cost quite a bit these days.

[Guest American Woman]

Suppose I don't pay any taxes.

How would you manage that?