Why are my threads on XYZ being deleted?

[jbg]

This forum is not a democracy. "Freedom of Expression" rights do not apply.

Not as rights.

But the views of the more serious posters should be considered since some of them have some brains, and mean well.

[Argus]

This forum is not a democracy. "Freedom of Expression" rights do not apply.

]Any man (or woman) who doesn't obey forum rules spends a night in the box !

Ultimately, the reason this forum is what it is instead of an empty echo chamber like some of the others which have tried to start up is because of the posters who contribute to it. So I don't think it's a very good idea for the long-term continued success of a web site to not only ignore the input of posters but to do so in a manner which can best be described as disdainful.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Argus

[Guest American Woman]

The question is - does anyone get anything out of this forum being here other than the people who post? I truly doubt if CA does; does Greg? If not, since they don't post here themselves, why would they care if the forum is a success - or an echo chamber?

[Smallc]

Well then why bother?

[Guest American Woman]

Well then why bother?

As a courtesy to the people who had been members for years/those who were members at the time it became no longer actively maintained?

[Smallc]

So why moderate it?

[Guest American Woman]

Same reason. Also, perhaps there might be legal repercussions if someone posts something that they shouldn't? - Someone owns the site.

[Smallc]

Then I see no problem with a constructive discussion about the future of this website. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem possible.

[Guest American Woman]

Then I see no problem with a constructive discussion about the future of this website. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem possible.

My point is - most likely they don't want to be bothered with it any more than they already are.

[Smallc]

Well then...we can discuss that too.

[Guest American Woman]

What's to discuss? They've made their positions clear.

[The_Squid]

What's to discuss? They've made their positions clear.

We can discuss their positions. Why not? It's a discussion forum. If you prefer not to, then move on.

[Greg]

I want everyone to remember, I've been doing this a looong time... In Jan 2014, it'll be 14 years of moderating and managing nearly all aspects of MLW. We can all agree, this forum is not a cesspool of hate or partisanship like so many others out there on the Internet. You can agree or disagree with my methods, but the proof in staring you right in the face.

Do I make mistakes time to time?... Absolutely. But publicly admitting them over and over again in multiple threads, so specific individuals can point to them and say, "SEE! HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING!!!" isn't going to make the forum a success. Nor is allowing these types of threads to fractionalize the existing membership into those who agree or disagree with the moderator action and or the general rules.

I can't, nor do I want to, deal with every specific infraction. To use the analogy that was brought up in a previous thread, the police can not possibly catch you every time you speed -- that's unrealistic. But if you speed every time you get behind the wheel, you'll eventually get a ticket... and then another... and then another, until you've got enough demerits to warrant a suspension from driving. And if you continue to repeat your poor driving habits and flagrantly speed, you'll be caught, charged and your license will be revoked.

The situation in these forums is no different. Not all infractions can nor will be dealt with. But eventually Charles and or I will catch up with you. We'll notice and we'll warn you. Once those warnings hit a threshold, you'll be suspended. If it continues after that, you'll be banned.

That has always been the way I've run the forums, and it is not going to change.

Lets not forget, the original criticism of lack of communication of warnings has been addressed. That criticism was legitimate; I readily admitted it was an oversight and I FIXED the problem.

This thread, and any subsequent thread about specific moderating actions will be ignored and possibly closed.

This should not come as a surprise to anyone, as there is a point when things cease to be helpful and start to become destructive and vindictive.

[Smallc]

No one is trying to be vindictive, I don't think. Most of us aren't even trying to lay blame. We simply want to ensure that this place remains a discussion forum where actual discussion can take place.

This is still the best site for political discussion on the web.

[Greg]

No one is trying to be vindictive, I don't think. Most of us aren't even trying to lay blame. We simply want to ensure that this place remains a discussion forum where actual discussion can take place.

This is still the best site for political discussion on the web.

Great, I agree, lets work on making it even better.

[Moonlight Graham]

I want everyone to remember, I've been doing this a looong time... In Jan 2014, it'll be 14 years of moderating and managing nearly all aspects of MLW. We can all agree, this forum is not a cesspool of hate or partisanship like so many others out there on the Internet. You can agree or disagree with my methods, but the proof in staring you right in the face.

Myself and I'm sure most of the other posters here are very grateful for the volunteer work that you and Charles have put in over the years for MLW. Over 14 years, things change, be it technical issues, rules, moderation, users etc. We're just wanting to discuss these changes amongst each other and with you & Charles (and Michael) in order to make this forum better.

This thread, and any subsequent thread about specific moderating actions will be ignored and possibly closed.

This should not come as a surprise to anyone, as there is a point when things cease to be helpful and start to become destructive and vindictive.

As long as the discussions are constructive and polite, I don't see why posters shouldn't be able to voice their opinions. It's also not fair to close a thread when 1 or 2 people get a bit out of line. They should be reprimanded, not the discussion itself. Or people warned. My point is that our input is valuable.

Yes, there may be a point when discussions get out of hand, but there's a fine line between keeping this part of the forums civil, and outright censorship.

[Michael Hardner]

Leaving aside the obvious point about threads regarding moderation actions, I do think it makes sense to close a thread when it gets derailed to the point where the discussion has stopped.

[GostHacked]

Leaving aside the obvious point about threads regarding moderation actions, I do think it makes sense to close a thread when it gets derailed to the point where the discussion has stopped.

Why not deal with the posters who are trying to derail things?

[Michael Hardner]

Why not deal with the posters who are trying to derail things?

I think sometimes it's like trying to turn a hockey fight into a square dance... the times I've seen it done, anyway.

[cybercoma]

I'm just as guilty of it as the next person sometimes, but the best thing for the forum is for the posters themselves to ignore people that constantly try to derail threads. When they take a discussion off topic and show that they're obviously not in a thread to advance the topic, just stop replying to them. Threads aren't getting derailed because trolls are talking to themselves. They're getting derailed because people feed the trolls and it snowballs into idiocy.

[jbg]

I think Greg runs a great forum. And I say that even though I am still befuddled by my March 2013 suspension.

[betsy]

Ultimately, the reason this forum is what it is instead of an empty echo chamber like some of the others which have tried to start up is because of the posters who contribute to it. So I don't think it's a very good idea for the long-term continued success of a web site to not only ignore the input of posters but to do so in a manner which can best be described as disdainful.

I find it is already an echo chamber. Out of only a handful regular posters who keeps this forum going, how many are actually dissenting voices?

I posted a thread on Religion. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/23105-the-coming-four-blood-moons/

Take a look at the kind of responses I got. Mostly ridicules and personal insults. And you could tell they didn't bother to read the referred materials that were given for the discussion.

I understand that they don't want or believe in religion, or any diety.....but the section is supposed to be for RELIGION.

Then somebody wondered:

The_Squid, on 30 Oct 2013 - 5:32 PM, said:

Was this topic posted to generate discussion, or is it just spam?

What "discussion" is he on about? What moron would bother?

I PMed Greg about that thread, btw....asking him to take a look. I don't know if he did.

Someone smugly pointed out, there's nothing like MLF out there. I checked. In what way?

If he's referring to "intelligent" discussion, all you have to do is go to that thread referred above. Perhaps he didn't check enough.

Someone asked from the other locked thread I think, where are the others who used to be very active participants in this forum? I've seen a lot of familiar names in other forums. Depends on their interest, doesn't matter whether it's a Canadian Forum or US-based forum. I've just found a Canadian forum that seems to especially focus on Canadian Politics - seen a familiar name there, too. I didn't get the chance to stick around and further check - I'm not into politics this days. Maybe someday.

We're still here - most of us - simply because we've grown comfy with this site. And with each other.

Edited November 5, 2013 by betsy

[betsy]

How to improve this site? I base this suggestion from the site I hang out in:

If a post had received a warning, that particular post is highlighted so everyone will know that it's been dealt with. Knowing that it's indeed been dealt with is very important.

[Michael Hardner]

The

We're still here - most of us - simply because we've grown comfy with this site. And with each other.

Whether or not we realize it, all of us are more informed about ALL political positions because you debate them alongside more informed people that agree with you, and those that don't agree with you.

There's a phenomenon I noticed in myself, and confirmed with others who agree with me politically: being off the board in the "real world" and hearing somebody who agrees with your political position making a poor argument you have the urge to argue AGAINST them. You see, we're not getting indoctrinated into political positions here, we're getting indoctrinated into better political discourse.

Think about what a gift that is to public discourse, even on a tiny scale. We have thousands of visitors to MLW, not millions, but I believe that the site will continue to become a public meeting place for high quality political discussion across the political spectrum. Where else can you debate with such a variety of Canadians in a single place ? And the fact that this is not a partisan site, or driven by mainstream media means that any individual poster can start a thread and drive the debate in any direction.

I feel very lucky that MLW exists, and I don't like to get information in any other format. ( I talk back to the radio, as if I can post a response ! )

New posters welcome !

[betsy]

The

Whether or not we realize it, all of us are more informed about ALL political positions because you debate them alongside more informed people that agree with you, and those that don't agree with you.

There's a phenomenon I noticed in myself, and confirmed with others who agree with me politically: being off the board in the "real world" and hearing somebody who agrees with your political position making a poor argument you have the urge to argue AGAINST them. You see, we're not getting indoctrinated into political positions here, we're getting indoctrinated into better political discourse.

Think about what a gift that is to public discourse, even on a tiny scale. We have thousands of visitors to MLW, not millions, but I believe that the site will continue to become a public meeting place for high quality political discussion across the political spectrum. Where else can you debate with such a variety of Canadians in a single place ? And the fact that this is not a partisan site, or driven by mainstream media means that any individual poster can start a thread and drive the debate in any direction.

I feel very lucky that MLW exists, and I don't like to get information in any other format. ( I talk back to the radio, as if I can post a response ! )

New posters welcome !

Yes, you've got a point that indeed we can discuss further with people who agree with us. It's happened in some of the threads here on MLF, and we sometimes learn a thing or two. I've learned something from fellow-Conservatives here in the past, sometimes just by silently following a flow of discussion.

This forum still has some regular posters whose views are really worth reading. I emphasize regular posters because a discussion wouldn't be so interesting if there is no back-and-forth between the participants in a discussion, and it's the regular posters who make that happen. Active regulars!

It's one thing to just pop in and post only one's opinion and then be gone - isn't that more like a blog? Discussion - and a lot of times, heated discussions - is the heart of a forum.

Not that I'm saying we don't want any newbies around....it'll be great to have more newcomers, and HOPEFULLY they'll stick around and become robust regulars. The more the merrier.

It's one thing though to sign up new members, it's another if they'll be active, or if they'll even stick around.

Edited November 5, 2013 by betsy