The US, gun violence, and gun control

[WIP]

Those are other important factors to take note of as well. As Gerald Celente says .. ' When people have nothing left to lose, they lose it'. So they lose everything and now have lost their minds because they simply cannot take anymore and break. They snap, and commit some of these mass murders.

We know that banning guns do not address the issues you have brought up here, and I think they are very important to this discussion as well. It's a narrow view just to focus on the guns.

If killing 20 6 and 7 year olds wasn't bad enough, today's glaring headline in the news from Western New York, tells us that first responders can be targeted also, as two firefighters are dead, after responding to a fire that may have been set as a deliberate trap. I've heard some of the things that Gerald Celente says and agree with, although he has a seriously bloated opinion of himself and his prognostication abilities -- he is not the only economic analyst who has been warning about the economic crises happening now....but most of the others aren't using their findings to sell gold online. Point being, Celente isn't the only one who was fearing that Americans are getting to the point of being so stressed out, that people on the fringes would start acting out in shocking and unpredictable ways....and it sure doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict that this would have happened! But, what to do when everything starts going crazy? The collapse of social support that even that NRA clown are citing as causes now, have not and will not be addressed in a serious manner, and it will take years even if there are efforts to deal with the collapse of mental health care, unemployment and foreclosures, to show any positive improvements. In the here and now, America may have no other choice than to begin seriously dealing with lax gun control laws.

And I want to add an issue that is never dealt with when the tea party, tri-corner hat crowd starts waving their guns around and talking about 2nd Amendment rights -- they never mention that their interpretation of the 2nd Amendment doesn't extend the same right to bear arms to all citizens (especially those with darker complexions). It is never mentioned by the gun crowd that blacks never had the same rights to own firearms that whites did during the long period after the Civil War, during the age of Jim Crow! Not only were their voting rights effectively nullified, they weren't allowed to own guns in most of the south for a variety of technicalities that were never applied to whites! A more recent example of how the NRA and assorted gun nuts look the other way, is what happened after Hurricane Katrina, when soldiers and private security companies (probably Blackwater) were going through what was left of New Orleans and confiscating guns. Nothing was said by Wayne LaPierre regarding that attack on 2nd Amendment rights. So, it seems clear that the right to bear arms is a right to be granted to certain people and not others: if you're whiter, have better than average income, and own a significant amount of property, your 2nd amendment rights are stronger than otherwise.

[eyeball]

I have read it and I don't agree that banning guns solves the issue. Sure gun control could help, but that does NOT address the issue of the mental states of the people who commit these mass murders. Ban guns, and these people might resort to other deadly items that inflict mass casualties.

We have two cases here where James Holmes and this Adam Lanzar (suspected) to be on medication for mental issues. When we take a look at most of the mass shootings of the last 10 years we see where mental issues are the most common reason and many were on medication for depression, ADHD and other mental health issues.

So ban guns all you want, and you may reduce mass murders, but you will not eliminate them just on the notion of banning guns.

In many cases (and was my situation as well) a doctor takes 15 minutes to diagnose you and put you on some medication (for me it was depression ... or so I thought). I did not feel myself when on the mild medication, and my sister who was on Prozac had admitted to suicidal thoughts to me a couple times. Both of us pulled through and took ourselves off the medication without consulting the doctor. I felt numb, and my body was constantly shaking due to the effects of the drugs. For me my depression went away as soon as I got out of the craptastic relationship I was in.

So sure, deal with the gun issue, but also deal with the pharmaceuticals many of these murderers were on. The more we prescribe a pill for whatever condition the psychiatric industry deems a problem (like shyness??!?!?) then we are going to have a problem either way.

Take the guns away and people will use other methods. The man in China with a knife stabbing 20 kids is proof of that. Sure no kids died, but since he did not have a gun, was is the real underlying problem here?

You seem to think it was prescribed medication, what was the guy in China prescribed?

[scribblet]

I haven't read the whole thread and being Canadian I don't really have a dog in this hunt.

However, I saw this piece about gun control and thought it pretty well summed it up, sorry if it is allready posted. I thought the comment about still supporting the second amendment while opposing assault weapons is pretty reasonable.

http://www.washingto...36_story_4.html

The broader picture includes a fact that seems paradoxical in light of Newtown: There is actually less gun violence today than there was 20 years ago. The national homicide rate is down to the level it was at in the early 1960s. But mass shootings have not declined in tandem with the homicide rate.

-snip-

No affluent, developed country has anything close to the U.S. level of gun violence. Of the 12,664 homicides in 2011, according to federal statistics, 8,583 were committed with a gun.

Michel, the former Republican minority leader, said: “I wish there was some way of convincing the NRA that there are those of us who support the Second Amendment, but we still oppose assault weapons. If you’re hunting and you take two shots and you miss, you don’t deserve the prize.”

Sarah Brady talks of political realism:

“It’s going to be easier this time because we have social media to help us. But when it comes down to it, if all the pieces are not in place and you don’t keep the pressure up, there’s nothing the president can do. We need 218 in the House and 60 in the Senate.”

Edited December 27, 2012 by scribblet

[GostHacked]

I did read it, and that's not what the article says.

I doesn't say that "all funding to gun studies has been cut and government organizations aren't allowed to study the problem" - it says they cannot use the funds "to advocate or promote gun control." It doesn't say their funds have been cut and/or "they aren't allowed to study the problem."

It says none of the studies can advocate or promote gun control. Which means that the information obtained from studies cannot be used for their intended purpose. Meaning congress with some sneaky language (and you have to kind of read between the lines and think for yourself somewhat), has essentially prevented this information from being used as intended.

There is no ban on the funding of such studies. There is a ban on using the funds to "advocate or promote gun control," as it should be. Would you think it was ok if such funds were used to advocate gun ownership? Such organizations are not supposed to use public funds to promote one side of an issue, as it should be.

I've never seen someone argue so much over language semantics.

[GostHacked]

You seem to think it was prescribed medication, what was the guy in China prescribed?

I don't know. But you also have to look at societal situations. I do think some of these more powerful prescription medications are just as dangerous as the guns themselves. People who normally don't have murderous or suicidal intent all of a sudden have the urge to commit something like that. I do think we need to approach and revisit the psychiatric industry and the medications involved in treating some symptoms.

20-30 years ago you never heard of ADHD, or autism to the numbers we see now. Doctors have a pill for every type of condition out there. If a kid is hyper and cannot concentrate, drugs are prescribed to get the desired behavior. This is social conditioning at it's finest and most devious. If a kid is too shy,.. they got a pill for that. Altering their brains before they are fully developed at such a young age can have some serious side effects.

I have told you two anecdotal stories of me and my sister's experience with these drugs, and I can personally tell you, they may help for a short time, but it's should not be considered a long term solution/treatment.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Shooting at a school? We should arm the teachers with guns.

Firefighters get lured and shot at? The should have been armed with their own guns!

Maybe... Just maybe... More guns isn't the solution?

It reminds me of the

"

Are more guns really the answer to gun violence?

In the Newton shooting, I feel it was more about an untreated mental illness than a gun problem... Shouldn't the solutions involve more of an approach to helping those with mental issues?

To be clear, I do not blame guns for these recent incidents. I just don't understand how anyone could suggest that the best solution is to give more people guns...

[The_Squid]

I don't think we need another thread on this topic....

[Merlin]

There isn't a gun violence problem. This is all just knee jerk reactions. People wetting their pants because something bad has happened. Nothing needs to be done. More restrictions aren't needed.

[bush_cheney2004]

Many Americans awoke on Christmas morning to see that Santa brought them brand new AR-15 semi-automatic rifles:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2012/12/christmas-rifle-photos-in-us-stir-online-debate.html

[Guest Derek L]

Many Americans awoke on Christmas morning to see that Santa brought them brand new AR-15 semi-automatic rifles:

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ine-debate.html

I love it!!!

FYI 2 3/4" (Federal) Foster Slugs make great Stocking stuffers

Funny enough, got an unexpected PM from a fellow Forum Member last week regarding the link to a Canadian Gun Dealer that had Bushmaster AR-15s for $1200, fore he was very interested in purchasing one…..Checked the link a few days ago and they’re sold out…….I guess I was too slow in joining in on the AR-15 craze (I could still pick-up a Norinco M-4) after getting the green light from the Minister of Finance……As such, I had to “settle” for a Springfield M1A with wood furniture……..Santa should be dropping it off sometime late next week