Mass shooting

[Guest American Woman]

You contradict yourself.

No, I don't. The loss of a child is no less devastating any other time of the year.

Edited December 25, 2012 by American Woman

[Signals.Cpl]

You contradict yourself.

Do you honestly think that losing your 6 year old child in may is any less devastating then losing them right before christmas?

[GostHacked]

They banned them from planes, not the rest of the world. As I pointed out, guns and weapons have already been banned from schools.

Knives and liquids were banned and then you got the body scanners after 9/11.

Underwear bomber resulted in more invasive pat downs at the air port.

Shoe bomber forced everyone to take off their shoes.

None of this solves terrorism, this is nothing more than conditioning for the masses to get used to these invasive searching techniques which will not prevent another terrorist attack from an aircraft.

Obviously people wouldn't be discussing armed police officers in school, mental health, the role that the media and video games et al play into such instances if they didn't see school shootings as a problem. You seem to think that if people don't see your viewpoint as the only viewpoint, then they are dismissing it - not admitting that there is a problem.

Don't blame the violence on tv (although shooting people is fine, but have a nip lip and all of a sudden there is a problem) and don't blame the video games. People who are stable are not the ones being influenced by video games or violence on TV.

I'd rather see more nip slips than violence myself.

Security on airplanes won't stop a terrorist attack on a train, either - so should we not have security on planes?

Not sure, but guess where the TSA is now!?? ON trains , that's right.

There are real discussions involving facts and figures going on, but some seem to want to limit the discussion to their idea of "gun control." Period.

The thing is this recent event IS affecting schools in Canada. My cousins wife is a grade school teacher and now the doors are locked after 9:30, security cameras are getting put into more areas of the school. And we all agree none of this will prevent an attack on a school.

So this is being used as a huge political tool for the governments to crack down on our kids and not the people who commit the murders. Because the school at Sandy Hook had exactly all those security measures that many schools in Canada will now take. Did not prevent it there, and will not be able to prevent it again.

But AW, one more point, there were initial reports of a second gunman, and now you don't hear about it. And this happened in Aurora when there were initial reports of a second gunman, and quickly wiped from the media. I don't think we heard anything else about the second gunman at Sandy Hook.

Looks like it was a CBS affiliate that shot this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhwm6z3PQWU

[dre]

And, further, why was he able to procure guns despite his mental condition and prior criminal record?

Because theres a 1/4 of a billion of them floating around. Not tough to get your hands on an apple if you live in a gigantic orchard. Thats the problem with controlling firearms, and doing background checks etc. These things would help but for them to be really effective first some kind of gigantic buy-back is in order.

[bush_cheney2004]

As you open your gifts with your kids this morning, keep this quote in mind

OK...I asked them if they would prefer to be gunned downed before or after Christmas. One kid said after Christmas...maybe in May... because then he could play with his G.I. Joe with the Kung Fu grip outside with no snow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxbW_BY4X80

[The_Squid]

I am Adam Lanza’s Mother

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation’s largest treatment centers in 2011.

No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”

Sad state of affairs when prison is the only "treatment" facility for the mentally challenged.

[TheNewTeddy]

No, I don't. The loss of a child is no less devastating any other time of the year.

Losing your child right before Christmas certainly ruins Christmas - and Christmas will likely never be the same.

Sounds pretty devastating to me.

[Guest American Woman]

Sounds pretty devastating to me.

So you think the ruining of Christmas makes the loss of a child more devastating? Seriously?

[TheNewTeddy]

So you think the ruining of Christmas makes the loss of a child more devastating? Seriously?

You think it does not? Seriously?

[Guest American Woman]

You think it does not? Seriously?

I think it's just as devastating to lose a child any day of the year, and I would wager that if you were to suggest to the parents of the children who were killed that is wouldn't have been as devastating to lose their child after Christmas, they would be in full agreement with me - to put it mildly.

[Canuckistani]

We should just be happy that it happens so much less in Canada. It's got to harm the psyche of a nation to have that many mass shootings, and now of so many children as well. The more it happens, the crazier they get.

[WIP]

Massacres like this are problems that could impact the NRA's rice bowl. They want it to go away without their ox being gored. The safety of kids or anyone else is secondary to that objective.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case! Wayne LaPierre is just throwing crap at the wall and hoping something will stick. What other explanation is there for him to decry cuts to mental health funding and crazy people turned loose on the streets! It's no secret that the NRA works with other rightwing lobbies in Washington, and has supported lower taxes and lower public spending....which they are now trying to run away from.

[Wilber]

No one gets over the loss of a young child, nor do they want to because the imbalance between memories of a life lived on one hand and the what ifs and could have beens on the other is just too great. The short span that person had to make an impression on others and the world makes it even more important for those who do remember, to keep that memory alive. This would be true regardless of how the child died but it is especially tragic in a case like Sandy Hook where many of those who were witnesses to those short lives are also dead.

To me, the notion that a child who died an expected death after a long illness would have the same impact as one who left love ones looking at a stack of unopened gifts that they will never open because they were violently taken, is ridiculous. Long term, probably. Short term. No way.

[Canuckistani]

Does the US breed more crazy/violent people than Canada per capita? Maybe, although I bet actual incidence of mental illness is about the same. It's the idea that violence is the answer to your problems that seems so much stronger in the US. That's not something that gun control can address. But, it seems obvious that the easy access to high powered weapons that only have one real use - to kill humans - is a contributing factor to the many mass shooting they have. To say that further easing of gun laws will help with this problem shows just how much this craziness has infected mainstream America.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada spends about half as much per capita as the U.S. on mental health, has imported community based care from the U.S., and lacks tailored, innovative solutions for different provincial needs. The U.S. also spends much more on medical research.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3266763/

[WIP]

No one gets over the loss of a young child, nor do they want to because the imbalance between memories of a life lived on one hand and the what ifs and could have beens on the other is just too great.

A cousin of mine said last year that 8 years after her daughter died suddenly from an unexpected and previously undiagnosed heart defect, she is still grieving and unable to completely get over it, even though she tries, for the benefit of her husband and the other children.' They are likely going through the same thing. Even as the years pass, something seemingly at random will happen and remind her that her daughter is no longer here. The worst thing that can happen to a parent is to outlive their children, especially at a young age. That is likely why the Sandy Hook Shootings is making an impact that previous mass shootings were unable to do.

Other incidents are dismissed by an increasingly callous and jaded population that is used to increasingly disturbing stories in the news, and playing video games patterned off of early training games and videos designed to desensitize and detach special ops candidates from their natural empathetic responses. But, having 6 and 7 year olds gunned down, is a shock that breaks through to even the most cynical and jaded....and that's why the NRA has been in a panicked, damage-control mode ever since.

[bush_cheney2004]

No need for the NRA to panic, as this event has driven gun sales and memberships through the roof.

[WIP]

Does the US breed more crazy/violent people than Canada per capita? Maybe, although I bet actual incidence of mental illness is about the same. It's the idea that violence is the answer to your problems that seems so much stronger in the US.

I think that would be a shades-of-grey point, because our culture is almost identical to America's, and except for having greater social support on average, and less brainwashing with libertarian crappola, the main difference is that if someone gets mad....or is insane, they have greater access to firearms in the U.S. than they do in Canada.

If we look at the psychology of violence, a case can (and has many times) been made that guns are a prime example of technology making the committing of violence more remote and easier to accomplish than would otherwise be able. I can tell you that, way back when I signed up for a five year stint in the Armed Forces, I had a harder time with drills - running through a dummy with bayonet, or practicing with knives during hand to hand combat drills, than I did firing at a target. I never said anything to my superiors and went through the motions...but I worried deep inside that if I ever found myself in a situation where I had to stab an enemy through with knife or bayonet, that I might not have been able to actually do it. And that's the case with the way other people react with weapons. Many people who could not bring themselves to stab an assailant while under attack, would feel no qualms about shooting them. And if it's an emotionally heated situation, we can see where having the gun means all the difference in the world whether a violent act will be perpetrated or not.

[punked]

No need for the NRA to panic, as this event has driven gun sales and memberships through the roof.

If Obama can't convince Congress to stimulate the economy one way scaring gun nuts into buying 3 years of guns in 3 days is always a way to go.

[Argus]

I think that would be a shades-of-grey point, because our culture is almost identical to America's, and except for having greater social support on average, and less brainwashing with libertarian crappola, the main difference is that if someone gets mad....or is insane, they have greater access to firearms in the U.S. than they do in Canada.

I'm sure that's a part of it, but there ARE an awful lot of guns in Canada. I just think that our national psyche isn't as addicted to the thought that justice comes from the barrel of a gun as the Americans.

[Canuckistani]

Canada spends about half as much per capita as the U.S. on mental health, has imported community based care from the U.S., and lacks tailored, innovative solutions for different provincial needs. The U.S. also spends much more on medical research.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3266763/

That's great. Doesn't seem to be doing much good now, does it? Or maybe it is, which is a truly scary thought.

[Canuckistani]

If Obama can't convince Congress to stimulate the economy one way scaring gun nuts into buying 3 years of guns in 3 days is always a way to go.

Gun manufacturers stocks sank 18%, and the private equity firm that owns the company that makes the Bushmaster rifle is divesting itself of same.

[cybercoma]

The problem here is mental illness. I don't think a gun has ever walked up into a school (on it's own) and killed someone.

Nope. It sure hasn't. But it certainly makes crazy people a hell of a lot more effective at killing lots of people.

[eyeball]

So you think the ruining of Christmas makes the loss of a child more devastating? Seriously?

Religion always makes things worse.

[Guest American Woman]

I'm sure that's a part of it, but there ARE an awful lot of guns in Canada. I just think that our national psyche isn't as addicted to the thought that justice comes from the barrel of a gun as the Americans.

How many Americans have sought justice by shooting someone? You have some statistics that speak for over 310 million people that justify your claim? The way I see it, a minuscule percentage of Americans have acted on what you are claiming to be "the national psyche" of Americans, so if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd be really interested in seeing it.