Guest Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Good article on the subject. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/02/john-ivison-simplistic-arguments-from-theresa-spence-idle-no-more-could-have-tragic-consequences-for-natives/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Road Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 They just want more money from the white man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) lol @ the protesters blockading at CPR railways across Canada without blocking any actual trains. Edited January 3, 2013 by Sleipnir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NativeCharm Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Be sure to listen at 8:00 minute mark. Ekosi. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JO7kVQGeTas" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NativeCharm Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 The most important thing we can ALL do is have FACT BASED conversations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Interesting ramp up in national and international media attention. Sure has taken the spotlight off the usual aniti-Israeli "occupation" threads here at MLW. People who live in glass houses..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Good article on the subject. http://fullcomment.n...es-for-natives/ You beat me to it. 23 days on fish broth only, don't think so. The article does speaks to the issue of the gov't not making their case strongly enough. Too many people buy into the 'poor natives' propaganda when in fact, the natives are being at best, disingenuous. The gov't needs to speak out now to explain clearly what the legislation is. They also need to emphasize the amount of money they have spent and will spend. Not to mention that this gov't has settled more land claims (among other things) than previous gov'ts. The publicare being sucker punched. It's time to end race based preferential treatment, ALL Canadians should be equal. No more apartheid, end the Indian Act. Idle No More has targeted the recent budget implementation act, part of which makes it easier for bands to lease their land for development, claiming it is designed to engineer the mass sell-off of reserve land. The case for the defence — that this is a means of unlocking potential wealth for bands, and that it is purely voluntary — is not being made forcefully enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 The most important thing we can ALL do is have FACT BASED conversations. Well, that's true - but we will need to have the government, the First Nations people and the people represented in an ongoing and public dialogue IMO. It's not enough for troubles to boil under the surface for decades, to result in a protests and a slew of emotional accusations. Your video itself has Chief Spense talking about her personal 'feelings', which I don't think are the facts that we're talking about. Following that, we have somebody (seems to be a stakeholder) calling the government extreme right-wing, Canada an apartheid state and so on. The Harper government hasn't been communicating responses very well, IMO. I appreciate that they're trying to change the dynamic and to actually do something, but they have to deal with the ramifications of challenging the status quo. They have shown the willingness to make such challenges, but they haven't mastered the subtle politics that it takes to make these things happen. They will not be able to push through changes, keep their Conservative base happy and avoid protests or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) Either Ezra is lying or these facts look pretty damning for everyone's favourite, dieter, I mean Hunger Strike activist. Edited January 3, 2013 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Either Ezra is lying or these facts look pretty damning for everyone's favourite, dieter, I mean Hunger Strike activist. He's lying.....wouldn't be the first time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 He's lying.....wouldn't be the first time! I've read some of those figures from other sources as well. Can you show they are false? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 He's lying.....wouldn't be the first time! What specifically is he lying about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 He's lying.....wouldn't be the first time! Do you know that for sure? How much money does she make? how many politicians do they have? How much money does it receive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Either Ezra is lying or these facts look pretty damning for everyone's favourite, dieter, I mean Hunger Strike activist. Link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/423204_482175691824620_1570424317_n.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Well, that's true - but we will need to have the government, the First Nations people and the people represented in an ongoing and public dialogue IMO. It's not enough for troubles to boil under the surface for decades, to result in a protests and a slew of emotional accusations. I used to have a friend from Moosonee, who had an inside view of the problems for natives living in the far north.....wish I had been paying more attention back then! It wasn't my greatest concern in life at the time. It seems the problem for Crees and other groups living in the north, is that this is extremely inhospitable territory, and the bands living there had to be on the move on a regular basis prior to the arrival of white fur traders and settlers. The Hudson's Bay Co. wanted control of the land, and wanted natives to just stay in certain zones and run their trap lines. And, ofcourse the fur business went into decline for a number of reasons - pressure from European animal right groups, or just the bloody fact that real fur coats are expensive - especially in comparison with lighter, synthetic fibers. So, most of the bands are still stuck in isolated outposts many decades later, with little or no economic activity that was promised by the Federal and provincial governments, after they took over. Moosonee, for example was supposed to be Ontario's port city to the sea....like Churchill Manitoba. But, with Churchill already established on easier terrain with a better rail link, that idea never got off the ground. So, what do we do now? Does the Canadian Government have any responsibilities for people living in the far north? Or, are they just going to follow a policy of slowly trying to underfund them so they are starved out and have to move south? Worth noting that there are many times more former residents of Moosonee like my old friend; and if I knew a little more about Attawapiskat, I wouldn't be surprised if most of their population has moved out over the years also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 So, most of the bands are still stuck in isolated outposts many decades later, with little or no economic activity that was promised by the Federal and provincial governments, after they took over. Moosonee, for example was supposed to be Ontario's port city to the sea....like Churchill Manitoba. But, with Churchill already established on easier terrain with a better rail link, that idea never got off the ground. So, what do we do now? Does the Canadian Government have any responsibilities for people living in the far north? Or, are they just going to follow a policy of slowly trying to underfund them so they are starved out and have to move south? Worth noting that there are many times more former residents of Moosonee like my old friend; and if I knew a little more about Attawapiskat, I wouldn't be surprised if most of their population has moved out over the years also. You're not seriously proposing the govt can make reserves like attawaspikat economically viable, are you? That would just be another form of welfare, as non-profitable businesses are subsidized by the govt. As you say, the people who live on economically unviable reservations need to leave those reservations and go where the work is. We can't bring the work to them. And yes, hunter gatherers had to roam over large areas of land for subsistence The land could not support large numbers of people for that sort of life style. If the Indigenous People's really want to go back to the hunter gatherer lifestyle, maybe we could close off an area for them to live that life on. It would not have to be a very large area, since few would take up the offer. And no sneaking off that res for a McDonalds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NativeCharm Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Spreading unverified propaganda here isnt helping anyones cause. Come on now folks, I really want to believe there is more intelligence in this forum than what some of the posters are representing. I've posted links previously to the audited statements. In case you forgot or too lazy to do your own research here is the link: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/12/04/brett-hodnett-the-real-math-behind-attawapiskats-90-million/ As for the stock investents, we have people currently investiaging the legitimacy of that claim and will keep you posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NativeCharm Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I think it is important for people to be made aware that many of the "reserves" ( can we please call them communities?) do indeed help finance our economy. Now before you get it all twisted, be sure to know some background info before replying to my post. MANY, many, many resources are extracted from these communities, whether its legally, illegally, ethically or unethically. How can you say in the same breathe that communities like Attawapiskat are not financially viable, when a mere few km's away, they are extracting BILLIONS of dollars worth of diamonds? Kindly, remove your blinders before engaging in any dialogue with me. I should note that the only reasons I have agreed to maintain my interaction and engagement with this thread is because of the well written and very respectful requests I have recieved from some members here. It is also my duty as a Canadian and Native citizen to help encourage positive dialogues so that we can all have a better understanding of each others viewpoints, so we can move forward in a postive direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 I think it is important for people to be made aware that many of the "reserves" ( can we please call them communities?) do indeed help finance our economy. Quite true. A bag of ciggies at the 'reserve' is a fraction of the cost at the 7-11. The savings are passed along to the consumer. A win-win situation...for all except those pirates at the corner gas bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) --- Edited January 3, 2013 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NativeCharm Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Last I checked those diamonds are being extracted because of capital and knowledge provided by non-native sources. Without that capital and knowledge there would be no source of revenue. Second, Attawapiskat is getting a share of royalties from the mine but even if that amount is increased you are basically arguing that natives have no need to work and are entitled to live a life like a trust fund brat. Being viable means one thing: have a source of work. I am not basically arguing that Natives have no need or desire for work. How many Natives actually work at the diamond plant? Do you have any actual facts on Debeers? It seems to me that too many people have issues with Natives receiving any financial benefits, let alone any prosperity as investors with resource development. There is a great deal of frustration amongst the Native nations because legislation has basically prevented them from achieving any economical success. It goes far beyond the dimaond mines. It has been marginal for any Native community to prosper due to the corporate favortism administered by the Canadian/ Harper Government. I am certain many will not want to agree with that, but Native peoples helped shape and build this country, it's only fair that they benefit as partners as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/423204_482175691824620_1570424317_n.jpg Not a link to the same right wing bozo, but one that would verify those numbers..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NativeCharm Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I've read some of those figures from other sources as well. Can you show they are false? what 'other sources'? If you are going to make a statement, please support it. It's the exact same propoganda, and it does not belong in this conversation. This is much bigger than just Attawapiskat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) There is a great deal of frustration amongst the Native nations because legislation has basically prevented them from achieving any economical success. And, yet, legislative changes to address the issue are opposed as "violations of treaties". It has been marginal for any Native community to prosper due to the corporate favortism administered by the Canadian/ Harper Government. First Nations reserves have been suffering since long, long before the present government was installed; since before Harper was even born. [ed.: sp] Edited January 4, 2013 by g_bambino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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