Obama may make criticism of Islam illegal

[Merlin]

Maybe. Which class are we talking about ?

Sounds like the class that feels as though it cannot possibly compete in a free and open market and needs the bar to be lowered in order for them to gain employment.

I'm just guessing based on what has been posted already in this topic. I am just an innocent bystander and want to hear more about this. Very interesting please keep going, I;m reading.

[The_Squid]

Sounds like the class that feels as though it cannot possibly compete in a free and open market and needs the bar to be lowered in order for them to gain employment.

Your comments lead me to believe that you don't think that there is an issue with employers using discriminatory hiring practices. That if people would just get smarter and more skilled that this wouldn't even be an issue..... Is that correct?

[Bonam]

That if people would just get smarter and more skilled that this wouldn't even be an issue.....

Shouldn't a job go to the most qualified candidate that applies?

[The_Squid]

Shouldn't a job go to the most qualified candidate that applies?

Yes, except that there has been discrimination for a long time. Which has meant that some folks didn't get a fair shake.

[Bonam]

Yes, except that there has been discrimination for a long time. Which has meant that some folks didn't get a fair shake.

Ok, I can agree that some people didn't get a fair shake. So now why do their children and grand-children get preferential treatment at the expense of other people who had nothing to do with the original discrimination? For example, how is a naturalized white immigrant from eastern Europe, who has been oppressed himself under the pall of the Soviet Union for decades, deserving of having their application for a university slot or a job tossed out in favor of an African-American who grew up in relative security and prosperity in the US?

There is simply no way that one can reconcile race-based hiring policies with any reasonable definition of justice or fairness. Now, if one wants to talk about offering additional opportunities to the poor, regardless of their race, to help them get ahead in life, that's an entirely different subject and may be at least worth reasoned discussion. But the institutional racism of affirmative action will never cure a legacy of racism, it will only create a new legacy, perpetuating racial tensions for generations to come.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Bonam

[DogOnPorch]

There goes Bonam. Making too much damn sense, again.

[Michael Hardner]

There goes Bonam. Making too much damn sense, again.

It does make sense. Now we, on this board, have come up with a correction to a program that perhaps many of us could agree on.

Now, ask yourselves why it's not being debated at a national level. Their dialogue is wanting, is why. Rather than reward middle class "minorities" (lack of a better word) they could do something to invest in getting people out of a dependence cycle.

[WIP]

Sounds like the class that feels as though it cannot possibly compete in a free and open market and needs the bar to be lowered in order for them to gain employment.

I'm just guessing based on what has been posted already in this topic. I am just an innocent bystander and want to hear more about this. Very interesting please keep going, I;m reading.

No one is just an innocent bystander any more! Not on a political discussion forum at least. Re: "the class that feels as though it cannot possibly compete in a free and open market and needs the bar to be lowered," etc. Is that it, or is that most who are clearing that bar right now are not aware, or do not want to be aware of the fact that our system is far from a meritocracy! All you have to do is work for one family business run by the 2nd or 3rd generation misfits to be aware of that fact! And there are privileges with being a white man, regardless of whether there is any awareness or acknowledgment.

Discrimination can be simply and easily accomplished and very difficult to reveal and/or correct, and a personal example I have of that was in my own workplace a couple of years ago, after our personnel/human resources manager was fired. We learned that a private email of hers was discovered wherein she bragged to the wrong person about how well she had enforced her personal rule of not hiring any South Asians or as she called them @#$%^'s. There had apparently been complaints from some who were turned down after applying during a 5 or 6 year period, but no smoking gun! And that's the problem with all of these right wing believers in the meritocracy....where everyone succeeds or fails based on their personal merits....it's bullshit! And the sooner we admit and acknowledge that as long as their are different races, ethnicities, even genders, then those who try to shut down affirmative action and related programs, are the ones who are ramping up racial and ethnic tensions for no valid reasons.

There aren't that many people who have even a modest claim that they didn't get a job or a promotion because of some black guy etc. So why give in to the rightwing motives of greed and self-interest and risk increasing the racial and cultural divides?

[bush_cheney2004]

...There aren't that many people who have even a modest claim that they didn't get a job or a promotion because of some black guy etc. So why give in to the rightwing motives of greed and self-interest and risk increasing the racial and cultural divides?

Yea, especially when stoking cultural divides can be easily accomplished using language and religion as in Canada.

[Sleipnir]

Coming across this title automatically made me think that Merlin started it...

[Merlin]

it's quite scary that the US wants to make any defacto criticism of Islam illegal. It's scary. People would be forced to swallow whatever the government wants to say or face jail time if people speak out. No group can be above criticism.

[guyser]

it's quite scary that the US wants to make any defacto criticism of Islam illegal. It's scary. People would be forced to swallow whatever the government wants to say or face jail time if people speak out. No group can be above criticism.

Link please.

Thanks

[Sleipnir]

it's quite scary that the US wants to make any defacto criticism of Islam illegal. It's scary. People would be forced to swallow whatever the government wants to say or face jail time if people speak out. No group can be above criticism.

Link please.

Thanks

[cybercoma]

it's quite scary that the US wants to make any defacto criticism of Islam illegal. It's scary. People would be forced to swallow whatever the government wants to say or face jail time if people speak out. No group can be above criticism.

Link please.

Thanks

[bleeding heart]

ibid.

[Black Dog]

Ok, I can agree that some people didn't get a fair shake. So now why do their children and grand-children get preferential treatment at the expense of other people who had nothing to do with the original discrimination?

Are you saying that the days of racial discrimination are past?

[punked]

it's quite scary that the US wants to make any defacto criticism of Islam illegal. It's scary. People would be forced to swallow whatever the government wants to say or face jail time if people speak out. No group can be above criticism.

It's almost as if you could have started this thread eh?

Links please.

[BC_chick]

Discrimination can be simply and easily accomplished and very difficult to reveal and/or correct, and a personal example I have of that was in my own workplace a couple of years ago, after our personnel/human resources manager was fired. We learned that a private email of hers was discovered wherein she bragged to the wrong person about how well she had enforced her personal rule of not hiring any South Asians or as she called them @#$%^'s. There had apparently been complaints from some who were turned down after applying during a 5 or 6 year period, but no smoking gun! And that's the problem with all of these right wing believers in the meritocracy....where everyone succeeds or fails based on their personal merits....it's bullshit! And the sooner we admit and acknowledge that as long as their are different races, ethnicities, even genders, then those who try to shut down affirmative action and related programs, are the ones who are ramping up racial and ethnic tensions for no valid reasons.

I've seen the same thing happen in a company I worked for.

The thing is, discrimination happens less often when the visible-minority candidate who shows up for the interview is Canadian-raised. A lot of the stigma is only attached to the accent, which indirectly implies that the person has not been in Canada long enough to adopt the culture. They are perceived as living according to other customs whether or not that's true. This goes for Asians as well as Middle-Easterners and so some extent Eastern-Europeans.

The first-generation Canadians have it the hardest. The second-generation ones are held back by their often non-Anglo-Saxon names which make them indistinguishable on a piece of paper from the first-generationers.

It's not so much the colour of someone's skin as it is about being 'different'. People like familiarity, it doesn't matter what shape or colour it comes in. Sad, but true.

It's amazing some people would deny the existence of this phenomenon in our society.

Edited November 22, 2012 by BC_chick