Omar is back

[jacee]

I'm just seeing this post now so will quickly address it. You really shouldn't "assume" what another person "means" and then put it out there as reality/fact. He most definitely says that his parents never forced him to do anything, as I've pointed out several times now.

Link? Source?

Perhaps ultimately no one forced to do anything, but I find it interesting that you think al Qaeda, for example, wouldn't have that power; sounds to me as if you are confirming that he was there by choice, that he could have just walked away from them.

When did Omar choose to join Al Quaeda?

1 year of age?

5 years?

7?

10?

13?

[Army Guy]

Why were they knocking on the door? And, delta just happened to be positioned around to to...? Why was delta there.. what are the names of these three Afghani policemen, and under what grounds and whose authority were they acting... Omar wasn't arrested under Afghan law... What law was broken...

What year is this? and what Afghani's are you talking about Taliban Government Policemen coordinate with US delta force? Does not compute, you are talking BS.

After what almost 900 pages on this subject and we have to go over it again.

The WHY...In the early morning of July 27, 2002, a team composed of 19th Special Forces Group, the 505th Infantry Regiment and a "militia", composed of approximately twenty[50] Afghan fighters loyal to mercenary warlord Pacha Khan Zadran and led by Zadran's brother Kamal, had been sent from the airbase to the Ab Khail house in search of an elderly wheelchair-using man alleged to be the bomb-maker who had hidden anti-tank mines several weeks earlier.[47][50][51][52][53] The search turned up no evidence against the occupants of the house.[54][55]

Note the Date July 27, 2002, and the WHY looking for a Bomb maker

While at the house, a report came in that a monitored satellite phone, possibly one owned by the Khadrs,[56] had just been used 300–600 metres from the group's present location.[50][53][54] Seven soldiers were sent to investigate the site of the phonecall.[47][50]

The WHY they went over to the hut that Omar was in....

Under WHAT grounds and WHO's Authority, Hamid Karzi's authority, he was acting as interm President during the 2002 loya jirga (grand assembly) that was held in Kabul, Afghanistan.(goggle Hamid Karzi) The Afghanis miltia men were aslo acting under that Authority,

Afganis Policemen, Sorry my bad Afghanis Milita men....now the less under the Authority of the the NOW government of Afghanistan.

As for what law was broken, Do we really have to go through all that, I will bring up the anti terrorism act at the time, along with anti terror laws under Inter national law....of course there is the genva convention in regards to terrorism, not counting the Afghan law on this subject........you can do your own research as it has already been done in the almost thousand pages related to this topic...

The Taliban had already been taken down by this date....nice try

Total BS, the DELTA FORCE AIN'T ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF AFGHANISTAN POLICE!

TOTAL RHETORIC.

No they are not , but they were acting on the authority of the Afghan government.....

HELLO he was part of a defence against a foreign invasion. (And for that he was not a criminal he was a victim according to international law)

No he was not, He was a Canadian citizen, As for his defence again'st a foreign invasion....what invasion, at the time ISAF and NATO were fighting along side of the Afghan government on thier request....check your time line i9t seems to be way off....so according to the government of Afghanistan at the time the Taliban and AL Quiada were classified as Insurgents....Got to hate when that happens....So what inter national law protects terrorist again ?...

[Tilter]

The family moved there after omar was born and lived in a compound for terrorists and returned to canada few times after that to raise money in TO to give to the taliban. The kid was born here and that is the only thing canadian about him. He was not raised with canadian values.

If our immigration laws made any sense none of this traitorous family would be Canadian Citizens nor would 9/10ths of the foreign nationals living permanently out of Canada, the “citizens” who use Canada as a back door to safety. If you can’t live at least 2 years out of 5 in Canada, any claim to citizenship should be revoked. If you haven’t paid any Canadian income tax in the last 2 years any claim to citizenship should be revoked.

If you have served in ANY other army, official or not, any claim to citizenship should be revoked. If you have acted in a warlike manner against any treaty Canada has with any other country any claim to citizenship should be revoked

[WIP]

Good quote!

I do not believe that the conservatives have ever feared Omar or Islamic terrorists.

However,I believe they capitalize on the fear that some people have!

WWWTT

I suspect the same actually! When I was young, the media and politicians of most parties, continually assaulted us with the threat of the Red Menace: Soviet missiles and backfire bombers were going to fly over the Arctic Ocean and bomb North America with nuclear warheads; Soviet tanks were going to roll over the West German border and invade Europe; and Soviet-backed revolutionary movements in the third world, would overthrow Western-friendly governments one after another until they were at our doorstep....so we had to fight them over there...in Vietnam, or Cuba, or the Congo, wherever they were, the Red Menace had to be stopped before it took over the World! Anyone see some parallels with the modern hysteria generated about Islam and Muslim governments?

Except for Daniel Ellesberg's releasing of the Pentagon Papers, the public new almost nothing about what the leaders knew of any actual threats. In fact, most U.S. governments were only concerned about the accidental, inadvertent start of nuclear war. They were confident that the Soviet Union's economic growth had stalled out permanently in the 1960's and would not be able to finance a military to rival the U.S. Military-Industrial Complex.

Beginning back in 1960, John F. Kennedy tried to outflank the Republicans by going to the right and creating hysteria about a "missile gap" with the Soviets. He decided to run with a story concocted by a House defense appropriations committee and the weapons manufacturers that he knew was fake even before that first televised presidential debate with Richard Nixon because he was on the Senate Intelligence Committee and had access to top secret information. Nixon couldn't call him on his bullshit because that would have alerted the Soviets to how deep CIA informants had penetrated their government. It was devious and deceitful, and likely the all time most cunning campaign tactic!

It veers off-topic, but I thought it would be worth mentioning the background story since JFK was turned into something equivalent to a saint who would have brought world peace after his assassination, while the real truth was more likely that all of his motivations came from the constant search for political advantage. And today's supposedly "liberal" politicians will also play that foreign threat card whenever they see it work to their advantage.

Edited October 8, 2012 by WIP

[DogOnPorch]

Great post. Like McNamara said about him 'living the Cold War 24 hours a day for 8 years', the real threats to World peace often went unnoticed by the general public. What we DO know now that we only suspected then is that the fellow firing that SAM or flying that MiG was more often than not Soviet as opposed to North Vietnamese...no matter Jane Fonda photo ops.

[Guest American Woman]

When did Omar choose to join Al Quaeda?

1 year of age?

5 years?

7?

10?

13?

Do you honestly believe that children either "choose" to do everything they are involved in or that they are "forced" to do it? Or do you think perhaps they get involved in things such as Scouts, piano lessons, dance, martial arts, etc. because their parents sign them up, encourage them, and they enjoy it? They are not old enough to "choose" many of these things on their own, and likely don't even know all of the options available to them without parental input, but they are not "forced" to become involved. I hope that helps clear things up for you.

On that note, Omar "compares bin Laden’s training camps to mere martial arts clubs," and it sounds as if he became involved at the age other children become involved in "martial arts clubs."

As for his dad, blaming him, this is what he said - "I think he was just a normal dad. He was just trying to raise his children the right way." And "I know my father, and I don’t accept anybody saying that he’s a bad person." Hardly sounds as if he is blaming his dad for anything wrong and/or as if his dad "forced" him into anything.

Over and over, [Omar] defended his dad. "I can say he’s not an al-Qaeda, and I can base my beliefs on actual facts," he said. "I was living with my father, and I saw him."

FOR YEARS, KHADR’S defenders have pointed the finger at his fanatical father, blaming him for his son’s fate. But Omar himself does not subscribe to that storyline. "I don’t believe that my father sent me knowing that my life was going to be in danger," he said. "And secondly, I don’t think my father thought that anybody would use his kids and things."

Again. Doesn't sound as if his parents forced him to do anything, or as if he felt that they did.

This doesn't sound as if he were "forced," either: "A home video—recovered from the rubble of the compound after Khadr’s capture—shows the smiling teenager wiring improvised explosive devices and helping to plant them under the cover of darkness."

"Smiling teenager" doesn't come across as forced and/or victimized. His attempt at downplaying/denying his involvement in that is interesting.

As I've also pointed out several times, Omar apologized to Speers' widow "for the pain I caused you and your family," and said he reached "a conclusion" in jail. "You’re not going to gain anything with hate," he said - which doesn't sound like something he would say if he weren't the one to have thrown the grenade.

link

link

Yeah, it's a real laughing matter, for sure.

[Tilter]

Do you honestly believe that children either "choose" to do everything they are involved in or that they are "forced" to do it? Or do you think perhaps they get involved in things such as Scouts, piano lessons, dance, martial arts, etc. because their parents sign them up, encourage them, and they enjoy it? They are not old enough to "choose" many of these things on their own, and likely don't even know all of the options available to them without parental input, but they are not "forced" to become involved. I hope that helps clear things up for you.

On that note, Omar "compares bin Laden’s training camps to mere martial arts clubs," and it sounds as if he became involved at the age other children become involved in "martial arts clubs."

As for his dad, blaming him, this is what he said - "I think he was just a normal dad. He was just trying to raise his children the right way." And "I know my father, and I don’t accept anybody saying that he’s a bad person." Hardly sounds as if he is blaming his dad for anything wrong and/or as if his dad "forced" him into anything.

Over and over, [Omar] defended his dad. "I can say he’s not an al-Qaeda, and I can base my beliefs on actual facts," he said. "I was living with my father, and I saw him."

FOR YEARS, KHADR’S defenders have pointed the finger at his fanatical father, blaming him for his son’s fate. But Omar himself does not subscribe to that storyline. "I don’t believe that my father sent me knowing that my life was going to be in danger," he said. "And secondly, I don’t think my father thought that anybody would use his kids and things."

Again. Doesn't sound as if his parents forced him to do anything, or as if he felt that they did.

This doesn't sound as if he were "forced," either: "A home video—recovered from the rubble of the compound after Khadr’s capture—shows the smiling teenager wiring improvised explosive devices and helping to plant them under the cover of darkness."

"Smiling teenager" doesn't come across as forced and/or victimized. His attempt at downplaying/denying his involvement in that is interesting.

As I've also pointed out several times, Omar apologized to Speers' widow "for the pain I caused you and your family," and said he reached "a conclusion" in jail. "You’re not going to gain anything with hate," he said - which doesn't sound like something he would say if he weren't the one to have thrown the grenade.

link

link

Yeah, it's a real laughing matter, for sure.

The thing that is the "laughing matter" is the way the Canadian tree(or terrorist) huggers wailed & cried for this murderous traitor. He is a traitor to Canada, he should be tried for that & should then, with his whole family, be "invited" to leave Canada.

In the interview he stated that he considers Canada his home country. I lived in Clairesholm Alta for 1 1/2 years (the approximate time he has spent in Canada to date, and I don't consider it my HOME , I was born in a village in Manitoba and lived there for 3 years but that's not my HOME--- My home is where I live & work and his is also. Send him back to Afghanistan and see how he likes his HOME.--- or how they like him.

[bud]

The thing that is the "laughing matter" is the way the Canadian tree(or terrorist) huggers wailed & cried for this murderous traitor. He is a traitor to Canada, he should be tried for that & should then, with his whole family, be "invited" to leave Canada.

In the interview he stated that he considers Canada his home country. I lived in Clairesholm Alta for 1 1/2 years (the approximate time he has spent in Canada to date, and I don't consider it my HOME , I was born in a village in Manitoba and lived there for 3 years but that's not my HOME--- My home is where I live & work and his is also. Send him back to Afghanistan and see how he likes his HOME.--- or how they like him.

he went where his family took him. he had no say in where to go. maybe he should consider cuba his home, since he stayed there the longest.

[eyeball]

My home is where I live & work and his is also.

His home is on Earth, where we have universal laws that protect children from adults.

[login]

The Taliban had already been taken down by this date....nice try

They still havn't taken down the Taliban, nice try.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/Americas/US-talks-with-Taliban-collapsed-over-Gitmo/Article1-942266.aspx

No they are not , but they were acting on the authority of the Afghan government.....

The US and ISAF were not under Afghan command.

No he was not, He was a Canadian citizen, As for his defence again'st a foreign invasion....what invasion

The US invasion. You are looking at it from a side, you fail.

Edited October 9, 2012 by login

[g_bambino]

HThey still havn't taken down the Taliban, nice try.

He very obviously meant as the government of Afghanistan.

[GostHacked]

Of course there is. No question about terrorists being charged with murder. But the question is has anyone, terrorist or no, been charged with murder while an unpriveledged combatant - like Mr. Khadr's murder conviction. Perhaps it bears repeating that after 10 years of combat in afghanistan not to mention Iraq, with all the various gunfights and other exchanges of gunfire with insurgents, there has been no one else charged with the same - I assume common - crime of murder while an unprivledged combatant.

Not to mention that a good number of the people released from GITMO end up back at GITMO again for much of the same. The majority of them charged with much much more severe crimes than what Kadhr suposedly did.

One of the leading rebels that helped take down Libya did a stint at GITMO.

[wyly]

The US and ISAF were not under Afghan command.

true the taliban was the afghan government...

[g_bambino]

true the taliban was the afghan government...

Not when Khadr was involved in the fight with NATO soldiers in which he was injured.

[wyly]

Not when Khadr was involved in the fight with NATO soldiers in which he was injured.

that's very selective, the taliban government were fighting an illegal invasion I wasn't aware the USA gets to decide who was the government of afghanistan...apparently the justice/laws/rules of war are whatever the USA decides they should be, which is essentially is the same as having no rules, laws or justice...

[jacee]

Do you honestly believe that children either "choose" to do everything they are involved in or that they are "forced" to do it? Or do you think perhaps they get involved in things such as Scouts, piano lessons, dance, martial arts, etc. because their parents sign them up, encourage them, and they enjoy it? They are not old enough to "choose" many of these things on their own, and likely don't even know all of the options available to them without parental input, but they are not "forced" to become involved. I hope that helps clear things up for you.

On that note, Omar "compares bin Laden’s training camps to mere martial arts clubs," and it sounds as if he became involved at the age other children become involved in "martial arts clubs."

As for his dad, blaming him, this is what he said - "I think he was just a normal dad. He was just trying to raise his children the right way." And "I know my father, and I don’t accept anybody saying that he’s a bad person." Hardly sounds as if he is blaming his dad for anything wrong and/or as if his dad "forced" him into anything.

Over and over, [Omar] defended his dad. "I can say he’s not an al-Qaeda, and I can base my beliefs on actual facts," he said. "I was living with my father, and I saw him."

FOR YEARS, KHADR’S defenders have pointed the finger at his fanatical father, blaming him for his son’s fate. But Omar himself does not subscribe to that storyline. "I don’t believe that my father sent me knowing that my life was going to be in danger," he said. "And secondly, I don’t think my father thought that anybody would use his kids and things."

Again. Doesn't sound as if his parents forced him to do anything, or as if he felt that they did.

This doesn't sound as if he were "forced," either: "A home video—recovered from the rubble of the compound after Khadr’s capture—shows the smiling teenager wiring improvised explosive devices and helping to plant them under the cover of darkness."

"Smiling teenager" doesn't come across as forced and/or victimized. His attempt at downplaying/denying his involvement in that is interesting.

As I've also pointed out several times, Omar apologized to Speers' widow "for the pain I caused you and your family," and said he reached "a conclusion" in jail. "You’re not going to gain anything with hate," he said - which doesn't sound like something he would say if he weren't the one to have thrown the grenade.

link

link

Your links don't work.

Again I ask ... At what age did Omar Khadr make a legal free choice to join AlQuaeda, in your opinion?

[Guest American Woman]

Your links don't work.

They most certainly do. Way to avoid having to address any of it.

Again I ask ... At what age did Omar Khadr make a legal free choice to join AlQuaeda, in your opinion?

I already answered your question.

Edited October 9, 2012 by American Woman

[g_bambino]

that's very selective, the taliban government were fighting an illegal invasion

It's factual. The Taliban had been ousted as the government of Afghanistan well before Khadr was apprehended. No relevant authority has declared the invasion and overthrow of that government to have been illegal. In fact, rather than condemn the invasion, the UN, only two months later, authorised the establishment of the ISAF to assist the new Afghan Interim Authority.

[Moonlight Graham]

New thought: if another country invades your country, and you attack them, can you really be considered a "war criminal", especially by those who invaded your country? I think that's kind of ridiculous. Also, let's remember that Khadr was not fighting against Canadians when he was caught, for that would be clearly treason. Note: I'm not sure if Khadr had citizenship of Pakistan/Afghanistan/Egypt and wikipedia doesn't seem to say, though I'm not sure if it fundamentally matters since Khadr lived for much of his live in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

[Guest American Woman]

New thought: if another country invades your country, and you attack them, can you really be considered a "war criminal", especially by those who invaded your country? I think that's kind of ridiculous.

So Afghanistan is Khadr's country? Not Canada? Furthermore, the Afghan government wasn't fighting against the Americans. Or Canadians. Or NATO.

Edited to add: How you can defend his actions is impossible to understand.

Also, let's remember that Khadr was not fighting against Canadians when he was caught, for that would be clearly treason.

This line of thought wouldn't make Canada look very good. 'Well, he just killed an ally, so he didn't do anything against Canada.' You think killing Canada's allies, which would in effect hinder Canada's mission there, wouldn't count? What about the videos of him helping assemble and plant explosives, which Canadian troops could have stepped on? That's not treason, because fortunately no Canadian troops were killed?

Edited October 9, 2012 by American Woman

[login]

He very obviously meant as the government of Afghanistan.

You clearly don't understand Afghanistan.

Learn a little about Afghanistan's political structure since WWII and post back.

Edited October 9, 2012 by login

[g_bambino]

You clearly don't understand Afghanistan.

History clearly confounds you.

[login]

History clearly confounds you.

More bs.

[wyly]

New thought: if another country invades your country, and you attack them, can you really be considered a "war criminal", especially by those who invaded your country? I think that's kind of ridiculous. Also, let's remember that Khadr was not fighting against Canadians when he was caught, for that would be clearly treason. Note: I'm not sure if Khadr had citizenship of Pakistan/Afghanistan/Egypt and wikipedia doesn't seem to say, though I'm not sure if it fundamentally matters since Khadr lived for much of his live in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

a number have of us have already said the same...rules/laws are made on a whim by the victor...germany during ww2 decided resistance fighters were terrorists and had no civil rights, torturing and executing them freely...the USA a country born out of revolution hates revolutionaires(terrorists) unless they oppose american enemies then they're transformed by the political propaganda machine into brave heroic freedom fighters...rule/laws are made and broken as required to suit political agendas...

[jacee]

So Afghanistan is Khadr's country? Not Canada? Furthermore, the Afghan government wasn't fighting against the Americans. Or Canadians. Or NATO.

Edited to add: How you can defend his actions is impossible to understand.

This line of thought wouldn't make Canada look very good. 'Well, he just killed an ally, so he didn't do anything against Canada.' You think killing Canada's allies, which would in effect hinder Canada's mission there, wouldn't count? What about the videos of him helping assemble and plant explosives, which Canadian troops could have stepped on? That's not treason, because fortunately no Canadian troops were killed?

That's a fact.

Canada was not formally 'in' Afghanistan at the time.