Fletch 27 Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) oooohh, Didnt do it "properly"... Isnt Canada now the shining beacon of hope for all other countries that went through the recession???? The Tory "Action Plan", and please note the "Plan" portion, seems be the envy of the USA and the rest of the world if im reading the newspaper "Propperly"... You must stimulate the economy during recessions. Harper didn't do it properly in IMO and isn't doing enough now to balance the budget. Edited September 26, 2012 by Fletch 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Never thought of it like that. I think you nailed it. Harper by being Harper put New Democrats in the postion to pick someone similar to Harpers style, vs someone with more populist or left leaning appeal, be it Cullen or Topp that didn't have that style of leadership. I think Trudeau has the Leadership race locked up. Trudeau is a shoe-in for the Liberal leadership. Unless he's nothing like his father, I won't even consider considering him for my vote, but there's enough people who will vote for him simply because he's his father's son. I think he's going to give Harper a run for his money purely because he's a Trudea, good looking and young. Mulcair is going to be in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Trudeau is a shoe-in for the Liberal leadership. Unless he's nothing like his father, I won't even consider considering him for my vote, but there's enough people who will vote for him simply because he's his father's son. I think he's going to give Harper a run for his money purely because he's a Trudea, good looking and young. Mulcair is going to be in trouble. I agree, MB. Mulcair IS in trouble! Young Trudeau will steal much more support from the NDP than the Tories. In his OP, Michael stated that Trudeau as leader could cost the Liberals the next two elections. I would think that without someone like Justin the Liberals would be DEAD within two elections! The Liberals are sliding into the abyss! The NDP has eaten them for lunch and expelled them out for fertilizer! They are done like dinner if nothing drastic happens. I've mentioned this before. I think the Liberals should forget about winning and concentrating just on surviving. Trudeau probably couldn't win an election but his sheer charisma might stop the Liberal slide. If he can just stop the losses that would be enough. I'm betting he would do more than that and recover a respectable number of seats, especially in Quebec. Give it two terms and the Liberals would be in a far healthier position to pick a true warrior leader and start trying for the brass ring again. The Liberals had better think long term or there will be no Liberals to matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 oooohh, Didnt do it "properly"... Isnt Canada now the shining beacon of hope for all other countries that went through the recession???? The Tory "Action Plan", and please note the "Plan" portion, seems be the envy of the USA and the rest of the world if im reading the newspaper "Propperly"... Yet you didn't seem to agree with it in your last post. Personally instead of funding small projects I would have rather seen one large national project funded. While replacing a roof on a stadium in rural NL is good it didn't create much work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 This is a bad career move for Justin. He's too young and more importantly FAR too inexperienced to be anywhere qualified to be Liberal leader let alone be PM. 4 years as an MP and being a school teacher before that just isn't enough political experience. He still comes across as a goof whenever he opens his mouth, he's just out of his league at the moment, he needs another 5-10 years as an MP to reach his potential where he could possibly be a decent PM. The good thing is that there almost certainly won't be an election for another few years so being Liberal leader (if he wins) will give him some much needed experience. Being leader will be make him learn much faster. I just think he may be hurting his career longterm by jumping in the race so soon & possibly crashing & burning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I agree, MB. Mulcair IS in trouble! Young Trudeau will steal much more support from the NDP than the Tories. In his OP, Michael stated that Trudeau as leader could cost the Liberals the next two elections. I would think that without someone like Justin the Liberals would be DEAD within two elections! The Liberals are sliding into the abyss! The NDP has eaten them for lunch and expelled them out for fertilizer! They are done like dinner if nothing drastic happens. I've mentioned this before. I think the Liberals should forget about winning and concentrating just on surviving. Trudeau probably couldn't win an election but his sheer charisma might stop the Liberal slide. If he can just stop the losses that would be enough. I'm betting he would do more than that and recover a respectable number of seats, especially in Quebec. Give it two terms and the Liberals would be in a far healthier position to pick a true warrior leader and start trying for the brass ring again. The Liberals had better think long term or there will be no Liberals to matter. Agree very much with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Agree very much with this. I want to believe that canadians will not be that stupid, to flock to him becasue of his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I want to believe that canadians will not be that stupid, to flock to him becasue of his name. To bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nittanylionstorm07 Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 He can run and win, and I'm sure he will bring the Liberals up in the polls after he wins. ...but can you picture a debate between him, Harper, Mulcair, and May? Harper and Mulcair will absolutely destroy him. His lack of experience will cost him tremendously, and he will be exposed as someone with a pretty face and name, but just simply an empty suit. I am not concerned at all about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 He can run and win, and I'm sure he will bring the Liberals up in the polls after he wins. ...but can you picture a debate between him, Harper, Mulcair, and May? Harper and Mulcair will absolutely destroy him. His lack of experience will cost him tremendously, and he will be exposed as someone with a pretty face and name, but just simply an empty suit. I am not concerned at all about him. He will say all the nice feel good thingys,and watch the people flock to him. But you are right harper and angry tom will have him for lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I guess Layton should have never run for NDP leader then?What's the connection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 What's the connection? He only split the "left wing" vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I think Trudeau could do well by promoting federalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 So what will this do to the convention? Will anyone else run? Or will they just skip it and give it to the wonder boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraychik Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I would love for there to be a second Pierre Trudeau appear today - someone with vision, leadership, and charisma to win who has a clear idea with how to address the particular economic problems and environmental problems of today. And you're a centrist, moderate, post-partisan, objective person who just wants "to do what works". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I would love for there to be a second Pierre Trudeau appear today - someone with vision, leadership, and charisma to win who has a clear idea with how to address the particular economic problems and environmental problems of today. We could not afford to have another pierre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 And you're a centrist, moderate, post-partisan, objective person who just wants "to do what works". Read what I posted... the things I would look for are actually non-partisan. They are elements of Trudeau's leadership that are sorely lacking in all leaders today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraychik Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Read what I posted... the things I would look for are actually non-partisan. They are elements of Trudeau's leadership that are sorely lacking in all leaders today. Right, because you describe ideologues in non-ideological terms. We all know that you're blissfully unaware of your own leftism. You just keep putting that obliviousness on display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Right, because you describe ideologues in non-ideological terms. We all know that you're blissfully unaware of your own leftism. You just keep putting that obliviousness on display. Sadly Kraychik, things have drifted so far that most on the left today ARE oblivious to their position! They truly believe that their views are in the centre. What they believe is the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Right, because you describe ideologues in non-ideological terms. It's quite possible to do so. We all know that you're blissfully unaware of your own leftism. You just keep putting that obliviousness on display. You have been accusing me of being 'leftist' for 3 days now and haven't provided a rationale for any of it. Maybe I'm a leftist, who knows - but you don't seem to have a basis except for the fact that I called you on your poor arguments against Muslims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Sadly Kraychik, things have drifted so far that most on the left today ARE oblivious to their position! Kraychik isn't the kind of poster you probably want to align with - even if you do admire his politics. You might want to try August1991 - he's a well spoken conservative. If you want farther right then I suggest Argus, he's the thinking man's Kraychik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Sadly Kraychik, things have drifted so far that most on the left today ARE oblivious to their position! They truly believe that their views are in the centre. What they believe is the norm. This doesn't make sense. If, as you say, "things have drifted so far," then we're not talking about "the left" who "truly believe they are the centre." We are talking about the centre, at some point, aren't we? Same sex marriage is practically mainstream, now, in that a majority of Canadians apparently accept it. So it's not "left." It was--the "left" were evidently ahead of the curve, more attuned with contemporary life--but now it is not. Now it's centrist, mainstream. There are trends in society, some maybe conservative ones, some maybe liberal. But it's not static. Eventually, it just is, it's a normal and usual part of social life. At that point, it is mainstream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 You might want to try August1991 - he's a well spoken conservative. If you want farther right then I suggest Argus, he's the thinking man's Kraychik. Absolutely. And Argus himself very intelligently (if somewhat harshly, Argus-style) debated Kraychik into the ground (in my opinion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraychik Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Sadly Kraychik, things have drifted so far that most on the left today ARE oblivious to their position! They truly believe that their views are in the centre. What they believe is the norm. It's a function of the left, they are not aware of their own ideological leanings. As I've said before, the left tends to view itself as balanced, objective, pragmatic, and sort of outside contemporary labels. They sincerely believe that they are nuanced, complex, layered... sort of post-ideological. This is the delusion within which people like Michael Hardner live. In his own mind, he's a "centrist" and a "moderate". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraychik Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Kraychik isn't the kind of poster you probably want to align with - even if you do admire his politics. You might want to try August1991 - he's a well spoken conservative. If you want farther right then I suggest Argus, he's the thinking man's Kraychik. Except, Argus *isn't* a conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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