LIBERAL (!) guilt in Robo-calling

[scribblet]

Ya know, I'm sure the CPC did absolutely nothing wrong, and I'm sure had nothing to do with the mis-directing of voters to non existent polling stations etc.

What I can't figure out is why they are trying so hard to hinder and shut down any investigation?

They are doing what anyone would do in a court case, they have actually handed over everything they were asked to. We don't know who did anything wrong other than it was this 'Poutine' guy, so far the only 'wrong' thing has been by the opposition.

This has all been rehashed repeatedly and so far nothing new other than the opposition has been found in error.

Certainly there is absolutely no evidence that the CPC itself was involved - where's CSI when ya need 'em.

[PIK]

They are doing what anyone would do in a court case, they have actually handed over everything they were asked to. We don't know who did anything wrong other than it was this 'Poutine' guy, so far the only 'wrong' thing has been by the opposition.

This has all been rehashed repeatedly and so far nothing new other than the opposition has been found in error.

Certainly there is absolutely no evidence that the CPC itself was involved - where's CSI when ya need 'em.

Lay out the evidence, oh I forgot there is none. It seems it is all about guelph and no other ridings. Some NDP geek will be behind this.

[PIK]

Here is a little tidbit from ezra, it is pretty clear to what is going on.

That was not about illegal contributions, but rather whether the national Conservative party could spend money in local ridings. The laws were unclear; other parties did the same; Elections Canada changed the rules halfway. But Elections Canada spent $2.3 million pursuing the Conservatives.

Oh, and the media? According to the media database Infomart, 321 news stories were published across the country by the Media Party about this in-and-out accounting issue.

But this is a pattern. Last Friday there was a conviction and a hefty fine, handed down by the CRTC, for a politician caught making a misleading, anonymous robocall in the last federal election, in the riding of Guelph. A $5,000 fine. But it was a Liberal, not a Tory. So it was buried.

There have been 39 front pages across Canada, written by Stephen Maher and Glen McGregor, with their unfounded allegations about Tory robocallers. No conviction, no trial, no charges, nothing but their own left-wing innuendo. Zero front pages when a Liberal MP was actually caught, confessed and convicted. Zero.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/27/mums-the-word-liberal-lefty-lawbreaking-goes-unreported

[dre]

Just ban robo-calling. Bad enough these terrible political parties we are stuck with cant competently run stuff, but they have to pile on to every growing load of unsolicited spam as well? If you want these stupid calls you should have to go and sign up for them. Nobody else should get them period.

Edited August 28, 2012 by dre

[PIK]

Just ban robo-calling. Bad enough these terrible political parties we are stuck with cant competently run stuff, but they have to pile on to every growing load of unsolicited spam as well? If you want these stupid calls you should have to go and sign up for them. Nobody else should get them period.

True and enough of the foolery at EC. That has to stop.

[punked]

True and enough of the foolery at EC. That has to stop.

I have dealt with EC and I can tell they work very hard to follow the Election Act to the letter. It is the act that needs to be changed if you want to see any real change. They take their jobs seriously and work very hard at them.

[waldo]

But this is a pattern. Last Friday there was a conviction and a hefty fine, handed down by the CRTC, for a politician caught making a misleading, anonymous robocall in the last federal election, in the riding of Guelph. A $5,000 fine. But it was a Liberal, not a Tory. So it was buried.

apparently... you don't understand the distinction between a regulatory body (the CRTC) and the rules within the Telecommunications Act (Unsolicited Telecommunications Rules)... versus Elections Canada and it's governing mandate. You speak of a "conviction"... there was no "conviction" - that action does not fall within the purview of the CRTC (again, see compliance vs. violation of the Unsolicited Telecommunications Rules).

and, again, a politician was not fined... it was the party association.

and, again, what was misleading about the message. It was either you or your cohort 'Fletch' (I can't be bothered to check) that previously spoke of misleading message content... again, in what way was the abortion specific content of the message misleading?

and, again, it was either you or your cohort 'Fletch' (I can't be bothered to check) that previously asserted slander and libel occurred. Please advise - where is the slander... and libel... you spoke of beaked off about?

[madmax]

Here is a little tidbit from ezra, it is pretty clear to what is going on.

That was not about illegal contributions, but rather whether the national Conservative party could spend money in local ridings. The laws were unclear; other parties did the same; Elections Canada changed the rules halfway. But Elections Canada spent $2.3 million pursuing the Conservatives.

1) I would never take Ezra at face value.

2) It is clear to those who follow election financing (and that is very few in any circle) what the Conservatives did.

3) No, infact NO other parties engaged in the In and Out scheme. The laws were CLEAR and the intent results in defrauding the Canadian Taxpayer.

4) Elections Canada DID NOT change the rules halfway through.

5) To do the In and out scheme it goes like this.....

1) Take a dead Con riding like one in Quebec.

2) Max up the Federal Party Contribution to the riding.

Up to this point, its normal, though most parties would send monies to a riding in play.

Here is where the changes occur.

3) Have the Dead wood riding association that you just put 40,000 in, send it back to contribute to a National Robocall campaign or Call Centre Campaign to support other ridings or anything else the National Campaign wants to spend the money on. Basically the monies isn't used or spent in the riding or for the riding.

Now, the Conservatives did this with many deadwood ridings and offered this scheme to many ridings, particularly if they were not going to reach the limit in spending. But I believe they offered many ridings money but the riding would have to return it to the National Campaign or where the National was spending dough.

My Conservative local riding Campaign CFO, did not bite.... and for good reason, although they did use all the Federal Call Centre sources and such for a fee, but from monies raised by the local campaign (This is NORMAL).

You will have read many riding associations were duped, some without a knowledgeable CFO (this is common as election rules are very plentiful and most people tend to trust what they are told) others accepting the scheme thinking they were clever.

The end result is that the Conservatives could exceed the spending limit. (Most Canadians don't seem to get worked up over this) but the other problem is that , the gifted riding gets to receive the Federal Election Kickback on the $40000 spent, AND, the Federal party gets the $40,000 kick % kickback on monies spent as well.

Many Conservative Ridings did not bite on the in and out scheme.

Regardless its all water under the bridge and its time to move on beyond that, it certainly had NO effect on the election outcome last year and the knowledge was available at that time of the in and out.....

Edited August 28, 2012 by madmax

[madmax]

Just ban robo-calling. Bad enough these terrible political parties we are stuck with cant competently run stuff, but they have to pile on to every growing load of unsolicited spam as well? If you want these stupid calls you should have to go and sign up for them. Nobody else should get them period.

Its a good idea. How could one enforce it. Many of those robocalls come from outside of Canada, and those that don't like a small company like Racknine would have to do is take is room of boxes across the border.

The Cost of Robocalls is so affordable and fast, no wonder, its happening. However, I don't think its effective anymore. But I could be wrong, I have no feedback on robocall results, especially when it came to voter id. The combination of Call Centre and Robocall, with a return, push 1 for Con, 2 for Lib, 3 for NDP, 4 for Green, likely help the Conservatives identify alot of voters in 3 or 4 sweeps of a riding.

Of course, I don't know what they did with all that information..

Edited August 28, 2012 by madmax

[betsy]

Amazing, there's hardly anything mentioned in the news CTV and CBC. I heard it on Sun TV. And yet when the accusations were focused on the Conservatives, both CTV and CBC relentlessly pursued the accusations for WEEKS!

You'd think a bloody conviction should be more important than mere accusations! Shows you how slanted networks are and unreliable. Also shows how influential they can be in misleading and directing information - that could help shape up a person's perception.

[PIK]

Amazing, there's hardly anything mentioned in the news CTV and CBC. I heard it on Sun TV. And yet when the accusations were focused on the Conservatives, both CTV and CBC relentlessly pursued the accusations for WEEKS!

You'd think a bloody conviction should be more important than mere accusations! Shows you how slanted networks are and unreliable. Also shows how influential they can be in misleading and directing information - that could help shape up a person's perception.

I was not a fan of sun news myself when it 1st appeared (I to fell for the fox north)But it is better then I thought. And madmax show me where ezra has been so wrong. The reason the left hates him so much because he make them look like fools.( like he did to the HRC) If he was that bad the left should be happy that he is making a fool out of himself, but he is not. a little over the top on presentation at times. And sun news has no problem going after the cons ,especially lilley.

[bleeding heart]

. The reason the left hates him so much because he make them look like fools.( like he did to the HRC)

Ezra, and Steyn, were both absolutely correct about the HRC. Two stopped clocks, occasionally correct.

That doesn't mean they aren't creeps, obviously.

Edited September 1, 2012 by bleeding heart

[betsy]

I was not a fan of sun news myself when it 1st appeared (I to fell for the fox north)But it is better then I thought. And madmax show me where ezra has been so wrong. The reason the left hates him so much because he make them look like fools.( like he did to the HRC) If he was that bad the left should be happy that he is making a fool out of himself, but he is not. a little over the top on presentation at times. And sun news has no problem going after the cons ,especially lilley.

Yeah...Ezra does sound angry all the time...but he's mostly got it down pat. He makes very good points.

Steyn, I love this guy!

[bleeding heart]

Steyn, I love this guy!

I know. He's so great, that like every decent human being, he thought that released photos of an Iraqi detainee with a banana stuck up his butt was sooo hilarious!--my gosh that's funny, innit!

[pete t teepee]

The liberal incumbent in Guelph was just found guilty and handed a fine for misleading voters and may face possible libel suit. Frank Veliote...... Why do you have say for yourself?

A liberal can simply not change its spots it seems.

Please! Discuss!

This is wrong and can not be tolerated. Elections rules must be abided ALWAYS but if you're submitting that this is somehow on the same order of magnitude as the conservative robocall scandal, you are seriously delusional.

[Topaz]

EC has to make it plain to ALL parties break the rules and pay a huge fine and if you are in doubt of a rule than check with EC, no more excuses why a party did something against the rules. It's bad enough politicans are becoming less trustworthy but when a voter starts to mistrust the elections results become of things like robocalls etc., its time the voters send a strong message to EC and the parties, voters won't stand for it!!

[Shakeyhands]

EC has to make it plain to ALL parties break the rules and pay a huge fine and if you are in doubt of a rule than check with EC, no more excuses why a party did something against the rules. It's bad enough politicans are becoming less trustworthy but when a voter starts to mistrust the elections results become of things like robocalls etc., its time the voters send a strong message to EC and the parties, voters won't stand for it!!

or I guess the CRTC in this case right?

[PIK]

Now in quebec.

[cybercoma]

So... the RCMP grounds a plane with a Stephen Harper Hates Us banner, but they still haven't found Pierre Poutine. Crazy world.

[PIK]

So... the RCMP grounds a plane with a Stephen Harper Hates Us banner, but they still haven't found Pierre Poutine. Crazy world.

The plane thing is stupid and childish, and pierre is in quebec today playng the same game in the pontiac.

[scribblet]

Some of the evidence against Sona (Guelph) now shows that it was based on an error made by an Elections Canada investigator.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/local/article/792618--damning-evidence-against-guelph-man-incorrect-records-show

We have also learned that the robocall investigator being used by E.C. to provide technical advice, is an NDP partisan.

[waldo]

Some of the evidence against Sona (Guelph) now shows that it was based on an error made by an Elections Canada investigator.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/local/article/792618--damning-evidence-against-guelph-man-incorrect-records-show

We have also learned that the robocall investigator being used by E.C. to provide technical advice, is an NDP partisan.

Sona has been off the radar scribblet... see 'Christian Conservative'. In any case, are you talking about the phone call between Sona and Matthew McBain... the guy working in the Harper Conservatives election “war room”? The call where Sona is said to inquire about, 'setting up an autodial call that would not track back to Guelph's Conservative Marty Burke campaign? That call?

as for the 'robocall investigator' being used by Elections Canada, is that the guy Elections Canada's main/chief investigator, Al Matthews, formally designated as, "a partisan participant in the political process and also a subject matter expert in respect of telephone call centres". Is that the guy, scribblet?

[madmax]

Some of the evidence against Sona (Guelph) now shows that it was based on an error made by an Elections Canada investigator.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/local/article/792618--damning-evidence-against-guelph-man-incorrect-records-show

We have also learned that the robocall investigator being used by E.C. to provide technical advice, is an NDP partisan.

1) The Conservatives were the first to toss Sona under the bus and he said as much.

2) This is a rather strange request.

“In an earlier (sworn affidavit) I wrote that Sona called McBain ‘about a campaign of disinformation such as making a misleading poll-moving call,’” Mathews wrote in a footnote on page 30 of the 36-page document. “On checking I realize that in both interviews Mr. McBain … did not recall Sona as relating the call to ‘disinformation’ or about a ‘misleading poll moving call,’ only that he wanted to set up an autodial call that would not track back to the Burke campaign

3) Did you toss in the NDP stuff off the top of your head, cause I didn;t see it in the article.

I do know that the person in charge of EC now has been referred to as a good Conservative.

4) I wouldn't want to be any of these and as Sona stated earlier, he hoped the real culprit would come forward.

Mathews’ late-May affidavit indicates there were five Burke campaign workers authorized by the party to access CIMS. Sona was not one of them.

The five workers with CIMS access were Trent Blanchette, Chris Crawford, Ken Morgan, Andrew Prescott and John White.

Prescott has repeatedly denied having any knowledge of the misleading calls. The other four have made no public statement about the matter

[scribblet]

Keep trying, so far there's nada... I read the stuff about the NDP somewhere else on a CBC blog, it's Simon Rowland who was an NDP Candidate for the Eglinton-Lawrence riding.

[madmax]

Keep trying, so far there's nada... I read the stuff about the NDP somewhere else on a CBC blog, it's Simon Rowland who was an NDP Candidate for the Eglinton-Lawrence riding.

Should be interesting....

I like what I have read.