LIBERAL (!) guilt in Robo-calling

[Tilter]

That's what the cbc is for. So, guilty os not "really" if it's a liberal?

It will be interesting to see if the PC candidate moves ahead with a slander suite....

notwithstanding you haven't addressed the request for you to clarify your earlier assertions of 'slander' and 'libel', in regards the referenced violation of CRTC regulatory rules, what fraud and lies are you further asserting? - slander? - libel? - fraud? - lies?

It's expected of them

Edited August 25, 2012 by Tilter

[Tilter]

In my view, Harper wants to get rid of the Liberals and make the federal elections for TWO party system, paving the way for the TORIES to be the seating governments for a very very long time. Have you noticed how he goes after the liberals more than the NDP? Then, there is the changes to election funding, which hurt more the other parties than the Tories.

the liberals seem to doing a good job of that all by themselves

[ironstone]

Guilty of what. You didn't give one detail.

Let's see,the CRTC assessed a 4900$ fine against LIBERAL FRANK VALERIOTE'S riding association for a ROBOCALL MESSAGE that anonymously attacked his Conservative opponent's position on abortion.

The caller failed to identify its originator and gave no callback number.

The woman that made the call worked for Valeriote and used a false name and made no mention of her affiliation with Valeriote.

Mr.Valeriote says"We were unaware of certain requirements and inadvertently neglected to include some identifying features in the message,such as a phone number and address."

I won't hold my breath waiting for the Council of Canadians to try and nullify the election results of this riding in which the Liberal candidate won.

[scribblet]

.................

Mr.Valeriote says"We were unaware of certain requirements and inadvertently neglected to include some identifying features in the message,such as a phone number and address."

I won't hold my breath waiting for the Council of Canadians to try and nullify the election results of this riding in which the Liberal candidate won.

:lol:

[WWWTT]

In my view, Harper wants to get rid of the Liberals and make the federal elections for TWO party system, paving the way for the TORIES to be the seating governments for a very very long time. Have you noticed how he goes after the liberals more than the NDP? Then, there is the changes to election funding, which hurt more the other parties than the Tories.

Does not make sense???

What does make sense is that the liberals are now more in line with the conservatives,or vise versa and are in competition for the same voters.

WWWTT

[madmax]

Let's see,the CRTC assessed a 4900$ fine against LIBERAL FRANK VALERIOTE'S riding association for a ROBOCALL MESSAGE that anonymously attacked his Conservative opponent's position on abortion.

The caller failed to identify its originator and gave no callback number.

The woman that made the call worked for Valeriote and used a false name and made no mention of her affiliation with Valeriote.

Mr.Valeriote says"We were unaware of certain requirements and inadvertently neglected to include some identifying features in the message,such as a phone number and address."

Mr. Valeriote may say that , but its nonsense. Campaign managers along with the CFO of the Campaign are VERY MUCH aware of the requirements. Candidates however, often are oblivious as to what the campaign is doing in their name as well as the rules of Election Canada let alone rules required by the CRTC.

It is a Campaign tactic to run such a Push Pull call.... I have never liked them and its an American Import. When one uses a FALSE NAME they are DELIBERITELY deceiving the receiver of the phone call.

This was a dirty trick. The Liberals are not unknown to use deceptive tactics. Often their own base is unaware of what a Liberal Campaign might do.

That said,

I wouldn't be grinning at this if I was Racknine, Andrew Prescott, the CPC, or the GuelpH Conservative Riding association.

All the Libs have done is undermined their own credibility, and that may confuse a voter, may help deflect damage control away from the CPC, but I believe that its a matter of time before the chips fall on the intentional voter deception that occured in the last federal election

[waldo]

Let's see,the CRTC assessed a 4900$ fine against LIBERAL FRANK VALERIOTE'S riding association for a ROBOCALL MESSAGE that anonymously attacked his Conservative opponent's position on abortion.

I won't hold my breath waiting for the Council of Canadians to try and nullify the election results of this riding in which the Liberal candidate won.

yes, violations of the previously described CRTC regulatory rules. Nothing to do with Elections Canada review/investigation.

perhaps, instead of holding your breath, you should rally your cause and bring your concern forward to Elections Canada. Perhaps then, you might have grounds to offer conjecture on the actions of the CofC, hey?

[waldo]

I wouldn't be grinning at this if I was Racknine, Andrew Prescott, the CPC, or the Guelph Conservative Riding association.

...I believe that its a matter of time before the chips fall on the intentional voter deception that occurred in the last federal election

yes, clearly - one really should bookmark these grins as they're scribbled across MLW posts... it is only a matter of time.

[Keepitsimple]

Funny thing though.....not one person in all of Canada has come forward to say that a Robocall actually prevented them from voting. One could easily argue however, that the Liberal "mistake" had a very real effect on some voters.

[waldo]

One could easily argue however, that the Liberal "mistake" had a very real effect on some voters.

in terms of 'possibly affecting' voters, there is an outstanding request earlier in this thread to have the content of the message statements challenged; i.e., the false abortion related statements attributed to the CPC candidate, as well as the stated position of the CPC candidate on abortion.

Edited August 26, 2012 by waldo

[madmax]

Funny thing though.....not one person in all of Canada has come forward to say that a Robocall actually prevented them from voting. One could easily argue however, that the Liberal "mistake" had a very real effect on some voters.

I remember hearing Dean Delmastro making that claim almost a year later..., but I recall differently, especially on the day of the Election, when radio ads had to be put out telling people to ignore the calls...

1) Are you suggesting that everyone who got the call and went to the wrong poll eventually found the correct poll and never gave up? That those who took the ferry and then found themselves duped, returned and followed through on their vote?

2) Those most likely to REPORT to EC are those who are so pissed off from the misdirection that they would seek the correct poll and make the phone call.

3) I have no idea the effect of the Liberal Robo Push. Essentially a call like that is to motivate those who are engaged in that subject , TO VOTE... which is the opposite of sending people to the wrong polling stations.

4) Impersonation Elections Canada Should never be tolerated, but for some reason Conservative supporters feel this is .....OK.... and make assumed defences like, this didn't affect anyones right to vote.

Not a slipperly slope I wish to play on.

Maybe Dean Delmastro thinks differently, he had lots to say about robocalls....

Edited August 26, 2012 by madmax

[madmax]

Funny thing though.....not one person in all of Canada has come forward to say that a Robocall actually prevented them from voting.

A signed affidavit indicates that 150 to 200 voters in Guelph showed up at a phony vote location at the Quebec Street Mall and some voters ripped up their voter identification cards in anger

That is the intent of voter suppression....

[madmax]

Funny thing though.....not one person in all of Canada has come forward to say that a Robocall actually prevented them from voting. One could easily argue however, that the Liberal "mistake" had a very real effect on some voters.

Funny thing..., I figure I should feed you information you have forgotton from the Robocall thread..

At 11:06 AM on election day election officer Anita Hawdur sent an e–mail to legal counsel Karen McNeil titled: "URGENT Conservative campaign office communication with electors." Hawdur reported that returning officers were also calling to ask about the calls. A further email was sent from legal counsel to Ronnie Molnar, the deputy Chief Electoral Officer who in turn emailed a senior director: “This one is far more serious. They have actually disrupted the voting process

[Topaz]

Perhaps Election Canada should make stronger rules about calling voters, like DON'T! Most voters don't want the calls and the only way to contact voters is through the media or go to the voters door.

[Keepitsimple]

A signed affidavit indicates that 150 to 200 voters in Guelph showed up at a phony vote location at the Quebec Street Mall and some voters ripped up their voter identification cards in anger

That is the intent of voter suppression....

I guess it's still possible that some people may have been deterred from voting as a result. If they siged an affidavit, I'll have to accept that these people showed up at the wrong pole - but to the best of my knowledge there is no proof that anyone was unable to vote. I say this because if there was even one person, the CBC and The Star would have been all over it - don't you think? Don't get me wrong, the poll-misdirection robocalls were criminal - and whoever is behind them should be punished to the fullest extent. I still think however, that it's important to understand the real impact that these despicable robocalls had on the election. So to repeat, since no single person has been identified and proven to be prevented from voting, the impact would appear to be very small - and maybe non-existant. That does not excuse the callous act - it simply serves to separate cause and effect......and for anyone with an anti-Conservative bent, the Conservatives were thrashed in the election in Guelph anyway.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Keepitsimple

[jacee]

I guess it's still possible that some people may have been deterred from voting as a result. If they siged an affidavit, I'll have to accept that these people showed up at the wrong pole - but to the best of my knowledge there is no proof that anyone was unable to vote. I say this because if there was even one person, the CBC and The Star would have been all over it - don't you think? Don't get me wrong, the poll-misdirection robocalls were criminal - and whoever is behind them should be punished to the fullest extent. I still think however, that it's important to understand the real impact that these despicable robocalls had on the election. So to repeat, since no single person has been identified and proven to be prevented from voting, the impact would appear to be very small - and maybe non-existant. That does not excuse the callous act - it simply serves to separate cause and effect......and for anyone with an anti-Conservative bent, the Conservatives were thrashed in the election in Guelph anyway.

It matters that votes were suppressed. Nobody said people were "prevented" from voting. Vote suppression is the crime under investigation.

The punishment announced Friday by the CRTC “is about an election issue-based call and is quite different from the voter suppression calls that came from other sources on election day,” Valeriote said.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/iphone/news/article/786692--crtc-slaps-guelph-liberals-with-4-900-fine-for-breaking-robocall-rules

[Fletch 27]

The fact that the liberal lied should simply be hushed...

It matters that votes were suppressed. Nobody said people were "prevented" from voting. Vote suppression is the crime under investigation.

The punishment announced Friday by the CRTC “is about an election issue-based call and is quite different from the voter suppression calls that came from other sources on election day,” Valeriote said.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/iphone/news/article/786692--crtc-slaps-guelph-liberals-with-4-900-fine-for-breaking-robocall-rules

[BubberMiley]

The fact that the liberal lied should simply be hushed...

How about the fact that you lied and made unfounded accusations? It doesn't really need to be hushed because nobody cares.

[PIK]

And I see the cons want a investigation into the NDP and thier dirty money tricks. The cons are the only party you can trust.

Edited August 27, 2012 by PIK

[scribblet]

Oh right LOL the NDP has had to return illegal union money, but that's 'different' doncha know. Liberals making illegal robo calls is 'different' not to mentioned whitewashed LOL

So far no proof of anything other than opposition malfeasance, no votes suppressed anywhere that we have proof of. Never mind, Elections Canada will ferret it all out.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1247176--ndp-returned-344-468-in-advertising-income-after-conservatives-complained-to-elections-canada

[Wild Bill]

Oh right LOL the NDP has had to return illegal union money, but that's 'different' doncha know. Liberals making illegal robo calls is 'different' not to mentioned whitewashed LOL

So far no proof of anything other than opposition malfeasance, no votes suppressed anywhere that we have proof of. Never mind, Elections Canada will ferret it all out.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1247176--ndp-returned-344-468-in-advertising-income-after-conservatives-complained-to-elections-canada

Scrib, don't you know, it's all Mike Harris' fault!

It's ALWAYS Mike Harris' fault!

Just ask them!

[waldo]

Oh right LOL the NDP has had to return illegal union money, but that's 'different' doncha know.

actually... it's in relation to both union and corporate advertising monies received from unions/corporations advertising at the NDP conventions.

it is also interesting to realize that in 2003 the NDP sought related guidance from Elections Canada as to whether money obtained through selling advertising would be considered a political contribution. The Elections Canada response:

Where a person or entity purchases goods or services from a registered party with the intention of economically benefiting the party, the payment for goods and services will not constitute contributions to the extent that the payment reflects the

fair market value

of the goods and services purchased. Any amount of the payment above the fair market value will constitute a contribution if the person purchasing the good and service intended to benefit the party.

the NDP has stated they believe they were in compliance with the Elections Canada response received... but chose not to pursue the matter through the Courts. More pointedly:

the NDP also sought legal opinion and hired a third-party company to assess what fair market value for advertising would be in advance of each of the three policy conventions in question and followed those recommendations.

Brad Lavigne, former national director of the NDP, said this shows the party intended to stay within the rules.

“We put an emphasis on going to a third-party company to assess market value in order to keep (to) the letter as well as the spirit of the law,” Lavigne said. “We felt that while it wasn’t legally necessary to seek third-party validation for market value, we felt that it would be appropriate and well worth the investment.”

[scribblet]

Scrib, don't you know, it's all Mike Harris' fault!

It's ALWAYS Mike Harris' fault!

Just ask them!

Sigh, yeah, I got that one figured out... well maybe it was Bush's fault

The NDP get their hands caught in the cookie jar, the Liberals are fined for illegal robocalls yet somehow - it's Harper made 'em do it.

[waldo]

The NDP get their hands caught in the cookie jar...

why not offer your insight into the Elections Canada guidance/direction provided to the NDP.

[Shakeyhands]

Sigh, yeah, I got that one figured out... well maybe it was Bush's fault

The NDP get their hands caught in the cookie jar, the Liberals are fined for illegal robocalls yet somehow - it's Harper made 'em do it.

Ya know, I'm sure the CPC did absolutely nothing wrong, and I'm sure had nothing to do with the mis-directing of voters to non existent polling stations etc.

What I can't figure out is why they are trying so hard to hinder and shut down any investigation?