"EU boss lashes out at Stephen Harper"

[Guest Peeves]

http://www.canada.com/news/politics/Europe+snaps+back+Harper+over+debt+crisis/6804606/story.html

??? Why should our dollars go to places like Greece and Portugal, Spain and Italy? WHY Indeed?

Stand up for Canada that 'got it pretty much financially right' against those that put themselves in such a debt crisis. Why should we pay the piper when the EU calls the tune. Screw 'em. Of course he did give them free advice ..

Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued a stern challenge to Europe Monday to pull itself out of its debt crisis with its own funds and to overhaul the eurozone with structural changes that create a "genuine" financial union.

But Canada's position on the issue was sharply criticized by European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, who suggested the world should be contributing funds to help Europe and defiantly insisted that the continent would not take "lessons" from others about how to run an economy.

The tense standoff, which emerged in separate news conferences about an hour apart, occurred as leaders of the G20 countries began a twoday summit here dominated by the continuing economic crisis in Europe.

The leaders of the world's strongest economies met in the wake of a tense election campaign in Greece, won by the pro-bailout conservative New Democracy party, an outcome that has gone some way to reassuring the rest of Europe that the country will move forward to negotiate the terms of a bailout package and ultimately stay in the euro currency.

"We are obviously very pleased that the Greek people have given a clear mandate to remain in the eurozone and to fulfill the commitments they have made within the eurozone," Harper told journalists.

"We think that's a very positive development going forward."

Nonetheless, he said the 17-nation eurozone still has "significant" problems.

"The various debt crises, the combination of banking and sovereign debt crises, remain very severe."

At the oceanside gathering, Harper is under pressure to pledge Canadian assistance to a $430-billion International Monetary Fund (IMF) bailout package that would help troubled economies in Europe.

But Canada and the United States are digging in their heels and saying no to the request from the IMF, arguing that Europe is a rich continent and it needs to put a substantive game plan in place to fix its debt crisis.

Harper said the continent's debt problems are "clearly within the means of European countries to deal with.

[cybercoma]

Our dollars aren't going to those countries. We can provide credit relief to the IMF. Not a single dime of taxpayers money would be spent.

And before people talk about the IMF being for developing nations. In its inception it was to help European states, so I'm not buying that argument either.

[Topaz]

Our dollars aren't going to those countries. We can provide credit relief to the IMF. Not a single dime of taxpayers money would be spent.

And before people talk about the IMF being for developing nations. In its inception it was to help European states, so I'm not buying that argument either.

I agree and again the Minister of Finance and the pm are telling half truths for their own purpose. As the gentlemen said last night on CTV, countries LOAN money to the IMF and in return they help countries who need financially help. The IMF always pays back the loans to those countries that do loan them money. All Canadians should always question anything this government says to verify it is the truth.

[Wild Bill]

The IMF always pays back the loans to those countries that do loan them money.

Are you sure, Topaz? I'd really like you to provide a cite or two to prove this. Frankly, I think you are wrong and I will not believe you until you back up your words with something more.

[CPCFTW]

All Canadians should always question anything any politician says to verify it is the truth.

Ftfy

[Moonbox]

I agree and again the Minister of Finance and the pm are telling half truths for their own purpose. As the gentlemen said last night on CTV, countries LOAN money to the IMF and in return they help countries who need financially help. The IMF always pays back the loans to those countries that do loan them money. All Canadians should always question anything this government says to verify it is the truth.

I think this is a case of Topaz complaining about something the government has done simply because it's Harper and the Tories, and not the Liberals.

As for how this would cost us nothing, that's pure fantasy. To provide relief money to the IMF, we would have to borrow it, which costs us money. The IMF would of course promise to pay us back, but that's on the assumption that the countries that borrow pay THEM back...

The goal here, of course, is to have well-managed economies use their good credit ratings to secure low rate financing for badly managed economies. It's sort of like good debt chasing bad. If Europe is willing to take the steps necessary to reduce their deficits and spending, the crisis can be contained by Europe alone. If not, then I see no reason why economies who have, at best, minimal interest or trade with the problem economies should get involved.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Moonbox

[capricorn]

We can provide credit relief to the IMF. Not a single dime of taxpayers money would be spent.

The world's largest emerging economies were poised to announce Monday contributions to the IMF at the G20 meetings.

But Harper says Europe has the resources to deal with the debt crisis on its own. He has rejected the idea of pledging more money to the IMF. Canada already pledged $10 billion to the fund in 2009.

http://www.cjbk.com/BusinessNews/Article.aspx?id=337588

Where exactly is that $10B to come from if not taxpayers' money?

[punked]

http://www.cjbk.com/BusinessNews/Article.aspx?id=337588

Where exactly is that $10B to come from if not taxpayers' money?

It is a loan as thus Canada and guarantee that at amount (or print the money, or write it on a piece of paper) with out any money being transfered out of our accounts into theirs. However we must remember when doing such things they do not come with out risks. If we are loaning them money that means they don't have that money right now so will they have it in the future? The answer here is yes as long as Germany stays in the EU pretty much.

[Wild Bill]

It is a loan as thus Canada and guarantee that at amount (or print the money, or write it on a piece of paper) with out any money being transfered out of our accounts into theirs. However we must remember when doing such things they do not come with out risks. If we are loaning them money that means they don't have that money right now so will they have it in the future? The answer here is yes as long as Germany stays in the EU pretty much.

That is your opinion punked and you are certainly entitled to it! However, I have no wish to be taxed for another 10 Billion dollars, plus interest, on what still could become a bad debt. Your opinion will not cover it!

So while you may not vote for Harper because of this, you would never vote for him anyway! Meanwhile, folks like myself would perhaps NOT vote for him if he offered to have Canada stand behind any IMF loans! That's assuming of course that any other party offers us an alternative choice. Often ALL of them take the same side so we are just stuck if we don't agree.

[capricorn]

However we must remember when doing such things they do not come with out risks. If we are loaning them money that means they don't have that money right now so will they have it in the future?

Good observation punked.

[Jack Weber]

The free marketeers want (ed) integrated global markets and now they've got them...At least the downside...

Ah....The freedom...

[cybercoma]

They want integrated markets, then they bitch and moan whenever the state needs to support foreign markets.

[Guest Manny]

Some people will continue to make big money off this debacle. Not just despite it, but actually BECAUSE of it.

[dre]

The free marketeers want (ed) integrated global markets and now they've got them...At least the downside...

Ah....The freedom...

I wouldnt call the folks behind the EU free marketers. The whole thing is basically a move to undermine democracy and sieze power by ex politicians and international bankers.

Canada should not get involved with these scumbags in any way. The people of Europe dont want them, and anything we do to legitimize the EP/ECB is a further attack on European national democracies.

[waldo]

??? Why should our dollars go to places like Greece and Portugal, Spain and Italy? WHY Indeed?

Stand up for Canada that 'got it pretty much financially right' against those that put themselves in such a debt crisis. Why should we pay the piper when the EU calls the tune. Screw 'em. Of course he did give them free advice ..

why indeed? Care to comment on how tightly integrated U.S. banks are with European banks? Apparently, that hot question isn't one any so-called financial experts can even/easily address - who knows???

EU commission president José Manuel Barroso

: "

This crisis was not originated in Europe … seeing as you mention North America, this crisis originated in North America and much of our financial sector was contaminated by, how can I put it, unorthodox practices, from some sectors of the financial market

."

[bleeding heart]

So while you may not vote for Harper because of this, you would never vote for him anyway! Meanwhile, folks like myself would perhaps NOT vote for him if he offered to have Canada stand behind any IMF loans!

Really?

That would finally be the deal-breaker?

[Moonlight Graham]

Canada.com:

But Canada's position on the issue was sharply criticized by European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, who suggested the world should be contributing funds to help Europe and defiantly insisted that the continent would not take "lessons" from others about how to run an economy.

Europe is in economic shambles and clearly Canada has the record to give whatever advice it wants to the EU, so maybe the EU should take heed since they clearly don't know what the heck they're doing. This Barroso guy seems like a clown.

As for Canada giving Europe funds, Harper summed it up quite well:

But Canada and the United States are digging in their heels and saying no to the request from the IMF, arguing that Europe is a rich continent and it needs to put a substantive game plan in place to fix its debt crisis.

Harper said the continent's debt problems are "clearly within the means of European countries to deal with.

"What European countries need to do, and what we will be looking to see, are clear commitments that they are prepared to take all of the necessary actions that are within their capacity to deal with these problems.

Europe is rich! There are plenty of countries in Europe doing ok, and since much of this crisis is their own fault maybe they should solve it with their own money. I wouldn't be 100% against a plan for Canada to give a loan to European countries, as long as that money is paid back within a decent timeframe...with interest!

EU commission president José Manuel Barroso: "This crisis was not originated in Europe … seeing as you mention North America, this crisis originated in North America and much of our financial sector was contaminated by, how can I put it, unorthodox practices, from some sectors of the financial market."

No doubt that the recent global recession had much of its roots in the US, but the fact that some European countries are absolutely buckling (while others aren't) is not the fault of the US.

[cybercoma]

Europe is in economic shambles and clearly Canada has the record to give whatever advice it wants to the EU

Apparently Canada was minutes away from lining up at the IMF in 1994, according to John Manley. I wouldn't say we should be lecturing anyone. You never know when we will be the ones that need the IMF and the European nations will say, "hey, remember that time?" Also, the problems in Europe are a direct result of America's "creative" banking practices that lead to the collapse in 1998. Not that Canada is responsible for what the United States banking sector does; however, spitting on the Europeans and telling them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they find themselves in serious trouble due to someone else's actions is pretty dickish.

[PIK]

I can't believe what I am reading, some people would burn this place down to spite harper and I would take harper's word on the rule of law on these matters ,then some hatefull lefties on this board. Let me guess ,topaz and the rest probably believe the UN humans rights commision ,that because of the student protests in quebec we are as bad as syria.We have it so good in tghis country , but yet the left is still not happy. What will make the left happy, that we go down with europe. Like they say misery loves company and the canadian left is very miserable.

[jacee]

Apparently Canada was minutes away from lining up at the IMF in 1994, according to John Manley. I wouldn't say we should be lecturing anyone. You never know when we will be the ones that need the IMF and the European nations will say, "hey, remember that time?" Also, the problems in Europe are a direct result of America's "creative" banking practices that lead to the collapse in 1998. Not that Canada is responsible for what the United States banking sector does; however, spitting on the Europeans and telling them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they find themselves in serious trouble due to someone else's actions is pretty dickish.

Good call.

"Dickish" it is.

Harper is such a supercilious twit.

And all of his assumed air of superiority is based on Liberal cut-and-slashing.

He's gonna need new sweater vests to fit that puffed out chest.

Wars have been fought for lesser insults than he is flinging around.

One thing is for sure ... whatever Harper's post-politics career is ... it won't be diplomacy.

The man hasn't a smigen of diplomacy, and wouldn't know what to do with it if he had.

A statesman he is NOT.

[dre]

Apparently Canada was minutes away from lining up at the IMF in 1994, according to John Manley. I wouldn't say we should be lecturing anyone. You never know when we will be the ones that need the IMF and the European nations will say, "hey, remember that time?" Also, the problems in Europe are a direct result of America's "creative" banking practices that lead to the collapse in 1998. Not that Canada is responsible for what the United States banking sector does; however, spitting on the Europeans and telling them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they find themselves in serious trouble due to someone else's actions is pretty dickish.

The problem here isnt the idea of giving Europe assistance. The problem is we are working with the wrong people. The EP/ECB are NOT Europe. If our freinds in Europe need assistance, then we should talk to them. Engage whatever is left of their national governments, write down any debt they have with us, and take a look at what kind of aid might be appropriate in each case.

The LAST thing we want to do is give a bunch of Canadian money to the Brussels Bunglers, who created most of this mess with this same kind of malinvestment.

[Michael Hardner]

Engage whatever is left of their national governments, write down any debt they have with us, and take a look at what kind of aid might be appropriate in each case.

Aid ? Write downs ? You want to spend your own money to subsidize their failure to stay within their means ? Write a cheque, if you like, but I don't see the value in the government doing this.

The LAST thing we want to do is give a bunch of Canadian money to the Brussels Bunglers, who created most of this mess with this same kind of malinvestment.

I don't think you can separate the financiers, government agencies, and public here when it comes to blame. They all got into this together.

[jacee]

Europe is in economic shambles and clearly Canada has the record to give whatever advice it wants to the EU, so maybe the EU should take heed since they clearly don't know what the heck they're doing.

I think you mean Paul Martin knew what he was doing ... not that I agree ... but Canada's fiscal situation has very little to do with Harper. If he keeps shooting off his mouth, some international leader may just remind him of that.

You simply DO NOT disparage other countries as Harper has without expecting be be disparaged in return. Harper is an embarrassment to Canada and Canadians.

[Smallc]

Harper has been in charge for 6 years now. Though he is not wholly responsible for the current enviable state of Canada's finances, he certainly played a part.

[dre]

Aid ? Write downs ? You want to spend your own money to subsidize their failure to stay within their means ? Write a cheque, if you like, but I don't see the value in the government doing this.

I don't think you can separate the financiers, government agencies, and public here when it comes to blame. They all got into this together.

Its an oversimplification to simply say "they lived beyond their means". And Im not saying we should separate the government from the public, but its time we stopped pretending that the EU represents people in Europe. Polls in a growing number of countries suggest the people of Europe dont want these unelected bankers running the show anymore.

Id prefer that we dont give them any money at all, but debt write-downs would certainly be appropriate. In any case if European countries need assistance and we want to help (as clearly some people here do) then we should approach those nations bilaterally, and not deal with the ECB, or the EP, or the IMF. We shouldnt be strenghtening or lending legitimacy to these dangerous people... we should be helping Europeans to rid themselves of these people, and strongly encouraging European states to leave the doomed eurozone.