Youth threatened by growing disparity.

Moonlight Graham · March 23, 2012

Which is the main reason I chose not to go to school right after high school. I worked for a few years to save some money up and figure things out. More people should probably take a similar break at some point. A lot of kids are starting college/university at 17 now which is a bit early.

Pro: you can save up money and figure out what career you'd like

Con: many people who take extended time off post-secondary school never go back.

High schools should do so much more career-testing, counseling, and job shadowing, as should post-secondary institutions, to help kids figure out what they want to do. I just think it's really hard to know what career you'd like when you're 17/18. I didn't.

bush_cheney2004 · March 23, 2012

...The data also has potential political implications, particularly as the Nov. 23 deadline looms for the congressional supercommittee tasked with finding $1.2 savings over the next decade. As the Associated Press explains, the data "casts a spotlight on a government safety net that has buoyed older Americans on Social Security and Medicare.....

What does American budget drama have to do with Canadian "youth threatened by growing disparity"?

Rocky Road · March 23, 2012

that article also states that the US has the same problem, even more so.

bush_cheney2004 · March 23, 2012

that article also states that the US has the same problem, even more so.

Great, but what is the relevance to Canadian youth? Were they hoping for jobs or government handouts from the United States? Does income disparity in Canada track and depend on such disparity in another country?

WLDB · March 23, 2012

Con: many people who take extended time off post-secondary school never go back.

True. My mother stopped when she got pregnant. It was supposed to be a temporary thing but she never went back.

I havent taken a break during post secondary yet, dont imagine I will. I took my break between high school and post secondary. I didnt start University til I was 22 which is usually when people graduate from college/uni.

Bonam · March 23, 2012

I'm in the generation in question, and lemme tell you, with a useful technical degree, it's smooth sailing. I finished my graduate work last year, and getting a well-paying, interesting, rewarding job in my field (plasma science with applications to space propulsion and fusion energy) was pretty much automatic.

Rocky Road · March 23, 2012

Great, but what is the relevance to Canadian youth? Were they hoping for jobs or government handouts from the United States? Does income disparity in Canada track and depend on such disparity in another country?

Well North American youth is the topic here, we may deviate a little in terms of economics but there is a lot that is similar.

http://news.yahoo.com/economically-disaffected-american-youth-prime-ingredient-potential-rioting-162400008.html

"For young people, there's a continued bleak outlook for a good job, let alone any job, more looming cuts to social programs and ineffective political discourse by our so-called leaders. Still, many of the nation's college students are matriculating in school or are graduating with only large debts to look forward to. This is an ingredient for the recipe of mass social unrest.

Even New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg warned European/North Africa-style riots could be coming to America because of the bleak economy, as reported by CNNMoney. As politicians continue to draw their cushy salaries and perks while reminding Americans that these are the worst economic conditions since The Great Depression, they should take heed to what one novel from that time, "The Grapes of Wrath," had to say about what mass poverty leads to: "when a majority of the people are hungry and cold, they will take by force what they need." "

PIK · March 23, 2012

Which I'm sure you'll back up with evidence showing how Canada's education is bad.

I do ,the kids that I hire to work for me. Great marks in school, but can't add or spell, they are worse then me, and I have no education. But when they leave here ,they have learnt alot more with me in one year then the years in HS.

Rocky Road · March 23, 2012

http://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbusters-blog/police-brutality-increasing-against-occupy.html

"Police across the country are increasingly using extreme violence against occupiers. The weekly SF Bay Guardian recently revealed that Oakland police have received numerous complaints of excessive force. In a complaint from Oct. 25, an occupier says that “officers found a person alone, beat him, and broke his knee.” A complaint from a Jan. 7 march says that a police officer kneed an occupier in the back “causing his spine to break.” In New York City, media reports that an occupier’s rib was broken on the six-month anniversary of OWS. When the wounded occupier began having a seizure, she was denied medical attention while a crowd watched in horror. When occupiers from across the middle of America gathered in St. Louis, Missouri for the Occupy the Midwest regional summit, they too were also brutally beat back. Tazers were used, a dozen arrests were made, and several occupiers were led away with their faces covered in blood.

In the following eyewitness account, an occupier describes how it feels to be in confronted by extreme police brutality:

“For those that have never witnessed police violence, I want to make something clear. Nothing about this situation followed the prescription of an arrest – this media image of a “You are under arrest. You have the right…” is not what happens in real life. A friend said it best, what happened Thursday night was some gangsta shit. It was angry, vicious people jumping unarmed protesters and bystanders. It was an attack. It was intentional brutality. They did not follow any procedure of kettling, “less lethal” tactics, etc. Their actions were directly targeting individuals and beating the shit out of them. It was so fucked up.

I am traumatized. I am having flashbacks, and the more I try to make the motions of my mundane life the more vivid they become. Work, school, friendly conversations all seem completely devoid of meaning. All I can do is tell the story of my experience and force the people I surround myself with to question the society we participate in. " "

WLDB · March 23, 2012

I do ,the kids that I hire to work for me. Great marks in school, but can't add or spell, they are worse then me, and I have no education. But when they leave here ,they have learnt alot more with me in one year then the years in HS.

Im not surprised. I dont think I learned much at all in high school. I got more out of reading a lot during those years on my own time.

Aside from minimum wage jobs theres not much one can get with just a high school diploma anymore which is annoying. A degree or college certificate is becoming what the high school diploma was 30 years ago.

TwoDucks · March 23, 2012

I'm in the generation in question, and lemme tell you, with a useful technical degree, it's smooth sailing. I finished my graduate work last year, and getting a well-paying, interesting, rewarding job in my field (plasma science with applications to space propulsion and fusion energy) was pretty much automatic.

I'm glad to hear it was that easy for you. A couple questions though. How many years of school did you need to have to get this easily obtainable job and by extension, do you think everyone can afford to spend x years of their lives doing that? Also, how high of a demand is there for such highly specialized technical jobs? Sure there's enough to get you a job right away, but if there were tens of thousands of students graduating with such a degree would it be as easy?

I agree with the poster who said high school should have a more technical, career oriented approach. That's not students' fault, though.

Edited March 23, 2012 by TwoDucks

WLDB · March 23, 2012

Sure there's enough to get you a job right away, but if there were tens of thousands of students graduating with such a degree would it be as easy?

I guess that is the danger any one program runs the risk of doing. People should be studying a wide range of things. Unfortunately the job market keeps demanding increasingly specialized skills.

Shady · March 23, 2012

Which I'm sure you'll back up with evidence showing how Canada's education is bad.

Too much of a push on useless university degrees, like sociology, philosophy, music, women's studies, etc. They don't provide the necessary job skills for the real world.

Smallc · March 23, 2012

Too much of a push on useless university degrees, like sociology, philosophy, music, women's studies, etc. They don't provide the necessary job skills for the real world.

How does the current education system push for those?

Black Dog · March 23, 2012

How does the current education system push for those?

I'd like to see some hard data on how many of these so-called useless degrees are even out there.

Jack Weber · March 23, 2012

I do ,the kids that I hire to work for me. Great marks in school, but can't add or spell, they are worse then me, and I have no education. But when they leave here ,they have learnt alot more with me in one year then the years in HS.

You have no education??

I would have never "learnt" that from your posting history....

cybercoma · March 23, 2012

I've got a feeling Shady hasn't the slightest clue what a sociology degree offers. I know a sociologist that is the head of a market research firm, thanks to the statistical analysis, data management, and research skills that you learn. A lot of people that get arts degrees end up going into education or law. I'm willing to bet a good many of the MPs in parliament have arts degrees and I bet the vast majority of our Prime Ministers come from arts backgrounds.

Shady · March 23, 2012

I'd like to see some hard data on how many of these so-called useless degrees are even out there.

All you have to do is take a look at the number of students enrolled in those programs at each university.

Shady · March 23, 2012

I've got a feeling Shady hasn't the slightest clue what a sociology degree offers. I know a sociologist that is the head of a market research firm, thanks to the statistical analysis, data management, and research skills that you learn. A lot of people that get arts degrees end up going into education or law. I'm willing to bet a good many of the MPs in parliament have arts degrees and I bet the vast majority of our Prime Ministers come from arts backgrounds.

Obviously going into a post-grad program is different. But that's not the majority.

WLDB · March 23, 2012

I'm willing to bet a good many of the MPs in parliament have arts degrees and I bet the vast majority of our Prime Ministers come from arts backgrounds.

They do and did. Lawyers, teachers/professors, historians, businessmen.

Harper is the first economist I believe. Though he never did really get a job with that degree.

cybercoma · March 23, 2012

They do and did. Lawyers, teachers/professors, historians, businessmen.

Harper is the first economist I believe. Though he never did really get a job with that degree.

Economics gets you a BA at many universities.

Black Dog · March 23, 2012

All you have to do is take a look at the number of students enrolled in those programs at each university.

Sure: feel free to provide that data. After all, you're the one claiming there's too many people graduating (and that would be the actual measure we're after here: graduates) with those kinds of degrees.

Better get working.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Black Dog

WLDB · March 23, 2012

Economics gets you a BA at many universities.

Yes, you can get a BA in economics but I dont believe he ever actually got a job with his degree. As in he was never an actual economist. I liked Paul Martin's line "I have a degree in philosophy but I wouldn't call myself a philosopher."

Bonam · March 23, 2012

I'm glad to hear it was that easy for you. A couple questions though. How many years of school did you need to have to get this easily obtainable job and by extension, do you think everyone can afford to spend x years of their lives doing that? Also, how high of a demand is there for such highly specialized technical jobs? Sure there's enough to get you a job right away, but if there were tens of thousands of students graduating with such a degree would it be as easy?

I did 5 years of undergrad and 4 years of grad school to get my PhD. The undergrad I paid for and accumulated student loans, but grad school in technical fields is usually paid for (by being a research or teaching assistant in the department that you are studying at), so once you're in grad school you can keep living that way for as long as necessary (if you don't have kids to support, etc).

Obviously the demand for the exact specific field I'm in is limited, but that was just an example. There are hundreds of thousands of unfilled engineering jobs, however. And not nearly enough people studying the right things to adequately fill them.